Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123967134902706176

Look like some big hint regarding future plans @The Eagle eagle baba whats your input i dont want to be accused reading so much in so little alone @Tps43 hazrat yeh bhi dekh lain

@Quwa been talking about something. I am merely looking at interest and then, we had productive/fruitful meetings with Turkish counterparts. A lot been discussed but behind closed doors and is not necessary that things may need or go towards West. I personally can see cooperation/JV with input from more than two countries into this. @messiach may help us further. @Oscar @cabatli_53

 

[cabatli_53]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123973504964145152

 

[Maxpane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123973504964145152

so tfx is could be a JV?

 

[cabatli_53]

I believe putting the flags of two nation into TF-X/PF-X is not a dream. Both side have very positive consideration to join into partnership.

 

[CrazyZ]

I think project AZM will have a strong resemblance to t-fx and k-fx. Both look like scaled down F22s. This is the best approach, F22 is the best 5th gen airframe. Copy it as much as possible. The USA already spent big bucks developing the shape. Fast following strategy.

 

[Quwa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123967134902706176

@Quwa been talking about something. I am merely looking at interest and then, we had productive/fruitful meetings with Turkish counterparts. A lot been discussed but behind closed doors and is not necessary that things may need or go towards West. I personally can see cooperation/JV with input from more than two countries into this. @messiach may help us further. @Oscar @cabatli_53

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123973504964145152

The TF-X is still in its preliminary stages, but it's been on the PAF's radar since 2016. Now, they're interested in the fighter, though we're still a ways off before the two sides sign an agreement on the matter. I think once Turkey has an active turbofan program (i.e., with a design plan, timeline, and experienced partners), things could get moving.

But it seems that the PAF is aiming for multiple next-gen fighters, i.e., Project Azm plus an off-the-shelf design.

If TF-X is a twin-engine medium-to-heavy-weight jet, then I think the FC-31 may also be a competitor for that 'plus-one' possibility. It's much further in development, so why not?

If the PAF is seeking a medium/heavy off-the-shelf NGF, then that basically means the Project Azm NGF will be a light/medium fighter (aka 'natural evolution of JF-17' as per @messiach).

 

[The Eagle]

I think once Turkey has an active turbofan program (i.e., with a design plan, timeline, and experienced partners), things could get moving.

I wouldn't ignore Russia into this possibility. Pakistan-China-Russia for our NGF
or
Turkey-Russia-Pakistan for PAF possible Medium to Heavy configuration fighter.

In both JVs, I found Russia as common & possible partner especially in Engine department.

Speaking of weight categories, if I am not missing your post, it may be like

Light to Medium category = PAC Azm NGF (possible evolution of JF-17 or something close to that but new design)
and then
Medium to Heavy category = Off the shelf solution with choices (TF-X or FC-31).

 

[Trango Towers]

Not entirely true. We can get a good idea in Shaheen type exercises. Given a certain stealth design component, locally produce a small Thunder iteration and field it in a Shaheen type exercise. Note the performance. Collect data. Reach a decision. Repeat. That's how you slowly build capability. Now, the good news is, we have a J-31 prototype flying around. Put the airframe through various scenarios in Shaheen, Anatolian Eagle and other exercises. And compare it against Flankers backed by long range AEWACS and Chinese and indigenous VHF/UHF radars.

Similarly for sensor fusion. Instead of trying to copy the F-35 JHMCS, involve the aces from CCS and pilots from various squadrons. Ask them how we can help you with situational awareness. Do usability testing. Create mock ups. Gather data. Analyze. Make decision. Repeat.

And here is the bottom line: you can do all of this without first creating a university. You need structured thinking and an experimental approach towards program management. When you have learnt the lessons and formed a core group of people, then create academic programs to transfer that learning to the next generation.

@Oscar @messiach @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

In the meantime we send graduates to the west to learn basics that can be taught at home. Come on bro.

 

[Maxpane]

J 31 to medium weight and tfx for heavy weight?

 

[CriticalThought]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123967134902706176

Thank you Sir. There is a key message in this post that everyone missed. PAF has been conducting studies for the past two years. Rather than a 'design' being finalized in two years, studies have been conducted. This is exactly the research based approach I want PAF to take. Collaboration is awesome as long as PAF gains core scientific insight, the ability to reproduce results locally, and then applies it towards quick, short, iterative goals that lead to a solution being inducted into the airforce and getting used by our personnel. Awesome. And looking forward to PAF working together with our Turkish brothers. This comment from the ACM resonates with a key recent comment from Turkey that said "We appreciate PAF's efforts towards indigenization".

In the meantime we send graduates to the west to learn basics that can be taught at home. Come on bro.

I highly doubt the West will ever return your best and brightest minds. Merely studying in a uni gets you nothing. The real learning cones from working in a company like Raytheon and LM and for that you require security clearance. Depending on level of clearance, they may even look at things like how many times you went back to Pakistan.

 

[Basel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123967134902706176

PAF may join TFX or it's 5th gen may receive tech from it.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123967134902706176

Does it take a White Man to say the Turkish and Pak military mindsets have a good level of alignment???? Aybek, Babur etc. were Turkic folks to begin with...

 

[Trango Towers]

Thank you Sir. There is a key message in this post that everyone missed. PAF has been conducting studies for the past two years. Rather than a 'design' being finalized in two years, studies have been conducted. This is exactly the research based approach I want PAF to take. Collaboration is awesome as long as PAF gains core scientific insight, the ability to reproduce results locally, and then applies it towards quick, short, iterative goals that lead to a solution being inducted into the airforce and getting used by our personnel. Awesome. And looking forward to PAF working together with our Turkish brothers. This comment from the ACM resonates with a key recent comment from Turkey that said "We appreciate PAF's efforts towards indigenization".



I highly doubt the West will ever return your best and brightest minds. Merely studying in a uni gets you nothing. The real learning cones from working in a company like Raytheon and LM and for that you require security clearance. Depending on level of clearance, they may even look at things like how many times you went back to Pakistan.

I did just that bro.
Graduate from Cranfield and went on to work at some interesting places but u are correct re clearance. Home is home

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

I believe putting the flags of two nation into TF-X/PF-X is not a dream. Both side have very positive consideration to join into partnership.

The UK has also invested £10 million into the T-FX project if I'm not mistaken

I think project AZM will have a strong resemblance to t-fx and k-fx. Both look like scaled down F22s. This is the best approach, F22 is the best 5th gen airframe. Copy it as much as possible. The USA already spent big bucks developing the shape. Fast following strategy.

In that case why not just reproduce the J-31 at home with Chinese collaboration?

 

[CrazyZ]

The UK has also invested £10 million into the T-FX project if I'm not mistaken


In that case why not just reproduce the J-31 at home with Chinese collaboration?

J31 is still a testbed. F22 is the plane to copy. The shape is stealthy and agile. USA spent alot of RD money to develop this shape. It is better then F35. TFX, KFX, IFX look like scaled down F22s. AZM should be the same.