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Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

AZM Concept
Project-AZM-design-JF-20.jpg


Indian AMCA
aJ6fJwg.jpg




r

MOCK UP SOUTH Korean fifth gen

Sorry but i thought PAF first phase initial concept was given by paf design team in 2019 which is this one below.
images (44).jpeg

They also said they were not sure about canards yet.
 
Sorry but i thought PAF first phase initial concept was given by paf design team in 2019 which is this one below.
View attachment 636948
They also said they were not sure about canards yet.


If you are correct and you are concept phase only . This means no J31 purchase and the concepulisation prototype and testing can be 15-20 years away and billions $ in funding

THE AMCA is well past concept they have finished this already

aJ6fJwg.jpg


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...o-push-make-in-india/articleshow/75823264.cms

They say 15 years BUT I will add 5 years to that EVEN if India is in better place to build indengious fighters and helicopters etc FOLLOWING all the lessons and infrastructure built up via Tejas Dhruv & LCH
 
Members are commenting on the informations related to program which at best are at least 2+ years old they need to know the last authentic news which was related to program was released in second half of 2017 .....

So my request to over enthusiast members hold their horses don't let you imaginations run wild .... wait for the release of latest set of info, additionally from open source we know PAC was working on AESA [other than Chinese] as we are aware about the tender for the import of GaN based TR modules and import of machinery related to the construction of of large parts based on composite material

So conceptual designing is not the only thing related to program which is/was happening .... again keep in mind there is always +3 years gap b/w the release of news and actual developments related to program ....

Sorry but i thought PAF first phase initial concept was given by paf design team in 2019 which is this one below.
View attachment 636948
They also said they were not sure about canards yet.
bhai this conceptual design was designed by the member of this forum just as hobby work ..... it is in NO WAY an official concept or related to Azam.
 
If you are correct and you are concept phase only . This means no J31 purchase and the concepulisation prototype and testing can be 15-20 years away and billions $ in funding

Unlike HAL, PAC navigates through the projects intelligently. The figure of 10-15 years you just gave out depicts your own experience with LCA. Heck, it is even more modest since LCA took well above 3 decades. That's a life time of a regular fighter aircraft.

Lucky for us, we have 2 different emerging defense partners onboard, Turkey, and China. Both of them are prioritizing 5th generation aircraft design and development. This is something that India has always lacked, strategic partnerships. One of the prime reasons why LCA was reduced to a point defense fighter entering service well into the 2020's. That too while addressing a haphazard economic need to get the money flowing back into the economy while putting the air staff requirements of a credible fighter solution as secondary.

Dont challenge me on this. I know more about Indian AirForce and what happens in HAL more than you. You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago. So, please, stop glorifying what India is doing to address its needs.


THE AMCA is well past concept they have finished this already

aJ6fJwg.jpg


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...o-push-make-in-india/articleshow/75823264.cms

They say 15 years BUT I will add 5 years to that EVEN if India is in better place to build indengious fighters and helicopters etc FOLLOWING all the lessons and infrastructure built up via Tejas Dhruv & LCH

The dilemmas of Indian Air Force and 5th generation requirement.

The Money

Out of US $65.9B (using Feb 1 exchange rate of 71.5 that was marked during the budget announcement), IAF loses $3B straight away with the exchange rate going down to Rs. 75.20 per dollar in today's money.

Pensions take up to 28.4% of the defense budget right away followed by the largest share. defense services that comprise 44.4% of the defense budget, 64.5% goes towards pay alone. The remainder is left for maintenance and is notoriously barely enough to upkeep and get the things running. This is before we get to 24% which goes towards capital expenditures of which let's assume, Air Force gets the largest chunk at 38%. 62% of which (USD $3.76b) goes into aircraft recapitalization. The bulk of this money is used to sustain past projects (also known as committed liabilities) such as Rafales. Interestingly there are reports that the current budget falls short on the committed liabilities in the present day. Once these committed liabilities are paid off, whatever is left might go into paying for a single squadron of fighters each year, which is the LCA Tejas. And this timeline goes up till 2029. Hence I dont see how you Indian fanboys fail to see what really stops GoI, IAF and HAL to progress towards a solution for a defense needs. It is poor management of finances and lots of corruption.

Capability development

IAF needs a credible engine ToT along with a high-performance radar (not the crap like Rajendra or Uttam that are failing tests to detect 4th generation jets). And India does not have a single ally willing it to do it for her.

When South Korea (which, unlike India, is a close US ally) teamed up with US companies to build their new fighter jet, SK was denied some critical technology that they explicitly asked for.... for instance, they ended up getting AESA technology from Saab...

Saab has worked on stealth technology, for instance through the Neuron program. The only thing listed above they cannot deliver on is the engine. However India will not get engine tech no matter what a/c they are buying. Saab is probably the only company that will be allowed to deliver substantial tech transfer on: stealth, AESA radar, avionics, and EW systems. The US companies will simply not be allowed to transfer that technology to India. Of course they can try to offer "dumbed down" versions that are sufficiently primitive to be allowed to be transferred, however, as demonstrated in SK, other options then become more attractive.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... t-program/

Russian options are also off the table since IAF pulled out of their program for 'reasons'. Until something really drastic changes, India does not, in any way, have any way forward as we speak to induct a 5th generation fighter before 2035.

Pakistan in the equation

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. The odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Or better yet, in any case of Indo-Sino war, Chinese J-20/J-31 might aswell be stationed at Qadri/Shorkot/Bholari to blow attacks on India.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years). In a nutshell, IAF is on the decline in the next 15 years when it comes to 5th generation capability development.

From MoU to induction, Pakistan's timeline for induction of J-31 is barely 3 years. And we are not in a hurry.

@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz
 
Unlike HAL, PAC navigates through the projects intelligently. The figure of 10-15 years you just gave out depicts your own experience with LCA. Heck, it is even more modest since LCA took well above 3 decades. That's a life time of a regular fighter aircraft.

Lucky for us, we have 2 different emerging defense partners onboard, Turkey, and China. Both of them are prioritizing 5th generation aircraft design and development. This is something that India has always lacked, strategic partnerships. One of the prime reasons why LCA was reduced to a point defense fighter entering service well into the 2020's. That too while addressing a haphazard economic need to get the money flowing back into the economy while putting the air staff requirements of a credible fighter solution as secondary.

Dont challenge me on this. I know more about Indian AirForce and what happens in HAL more than you. You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago. So, please, stop glorifying what India is doing to address its needs.




The dilemmas of Indian Air Force and 5th generation requirement.

The Money

Out of US $65.9B (using Feb 1 exchange rate of 71.5 that was marked during the budget announcement), IAF loses $3B straight away with the exchange rate going down to Rs. 75.20 per dollar in today's money.

Pensions take up to 28.4% of the defense budget right away followed by the largest share. defense services that comprise 44.4% of the defense budget, 64.5% goes towards pay alone. The remainder is left for maintenance and is notoriously barely enough to upkeep and get the things running. This is before we get to 24% which goes towards capital expenditures of which let's assume, Air Force gets the largest chunk at 38%. 62% of which (USD $3.76b) goes into aircraft recapitalization. The bulk of this money is used to sustain past projects (also known as committed liabilities) such as Rafales. Interestingly there are reports that the current budget falls short on the committed liabilities in the present day. Once these committed liabilities are paid off, whatever is left might go into paying for a single squadron of fighters each year, which is the LCA Tejas. And this timeline goes up till 2029. Hence I dont see how you Indian fanboys fail to see what really stops GoI, IAF and HAL to progress towards a solution for a defense needs. It is poor management of finances and lots of corruption.

Capability development

IAF needs a credible engine ToT along with a high-performance radar (not the crap like Rajendra or Uttam that are failing tests to detect 4th generation jets). And India does not have a single ally willing it to do it for her.

When South Korea (which, unlike India, is a close US ally) teamed up with US companies to build their new fighter jet, SK was denied some critical technology that they explicitly asked for.... for instance, they ended up getting AESA technology from Saab...

Saab has worked on stealth technology, for instance through the Neuron program. The only thing listed above they cannot deliver on is the engine. However India will not get engine tech no matter what a/c they are buying. Saab is probably the only company that will be allowed to deliver substantial tech transfer on: stealth, AESA radar, avionics, and EW systems. The US companies will simply not be allowed to transfer that technology to India. Of course they can try to offer "dumbed down" versions that are sufficiently primitive to be allowed to be transferred, however, as demonstrated in SK, other options then become more attractive.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... t-program/

Russian options are also off the table since IAF pulled out of their program for 'reasons'. Until something really drastic changes, India does not, in any way, have any way forward as we speak to induct a 5th generation fighter before 2035.

Pakistan in the equation

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. The odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Or better yet, in any case of Indo-Sino war, Chinese J-20/J-31 might aswell be stationed at Qadri/Shorkot/Bholari to blow attacks on India.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years). In a nutshell, IAF is on the decline in the next 15 years when it comes to 5th generation capability development.

From MoU to induction, Pakistan's timeline for induction of J-31 is barely 3 years. And we are not in a hurry.

@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz

You, sir, are an absolute legend!!!
 
Unlike HAL, PAC navigates through the projects intelligently. The figure of 10-15 years you just gave out depicts your own experience with LCA. Heck, it is even more modest since LCA took well above 3 decades. That's a life time of a regular fighter aircraft.

Lucky for us, we have 2 different emerging defense partners onboard, Turkey, and China. Both of them are prioritizing 5th generation aircraft design and development. This is something that India has always lacked, strategic partnerships. One of the prime reasons why LCA was reduced to a point defense fighter entering service well into the 2020's. That too while addressing a haphazard economic need to get the money flowing back into the economy while putting the air staff requirements of a credible fighter solution as secondary.

Dont challenge me on this. I know more about Indian AirForce and what happens in HAL more than you. You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago. So, please, stop glorifying what India is doing to address its needs.




The dilemmas of Indian Air Force and 5th generation requirement.

The Money

Out of US $65.9B (using Feb 1 exchange rate of 71.5 that was marked during the budget announcement), IAF loses $3B straight away with the exchange rate going down to Rs. 75.20 per dollar in today's money.

Pensions take up to 28.4% of the defense budget right away followed by the largest share. defense services that comprise 44.4% of the defense budget, 64.5% goes towards pay alone. The remainder is left for maintenance and is notoriously barely enough to upkeep and get the things running. This is before we get to 24% which goes towards capital expenditures of which let's assume, Air Force gets the largest chunk at 38%. 62% of which (USD $3.76b) goes into aircraft recapitalization. The bulk of this money is used to sustain past projects (also known as committed liabilities) such as Rafales. Interestingly there are reports that the current budget falls short on the committed liabilities in the present day. Once these committed liabilities are paid off, whatever is left might go into paying for a single squadron of fighters each year, which is the LCA Tejas. And this timeline goes up till 2029. Hence I dont see how you Indian fanboys fail to see what really stops GoI, IAF and HAL to progress towards a solution for a defense needs. It is poor management of finances and lots of corruption.

Capability development

IAF needs a credible engine ToT along with a high-performance radar (not the crap like Rajendra or Uttam that are failing tests to detect 4th generation jets). And India does not have a single ally willing it to do it for her.

When South Korea (which, unlike India, is a close US ally) teamed up with US companies to build their new fighter jet, SK was denied some critical technology that they explicitly asked for.... for instance, they ended up getting AESA technology from Saab...

Saab has worked on stealth technology, for instance through the Neuron program. The only thing listed above they cannot deliver on is the engine. However India will not get engine tech no matter what a/c they are buying. Saab is probably the only company that will be allowed to deliver substantial tech transfer on: stealth, AESA radar, avionics, and EW systems. The US companies will simply not be allowed to transfer that technology to India. Of course they can try to offer "dumbed down" versions that are sufficiently primitive to be allowed to be transferred, however, as demonstrated in SK, other options then become more attractive.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... t-program/

Russian options are also off the table since IAF pulled out of their program for 'reasons'. Until something really drastic changes, India does not, in any way, have any way forward as we speak to induct a 5th generation fighter before 2035.

Pakistan in the equation

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. The odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Or better yet, in any case of Indo-Sino war, Chinese J-20/J-31 might aswell be stationed at Qadri/Shorkot/Bholari to blow attacks on India.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years). In a nutshell, IAF is on the decline in the next 15 years when it comes to 5th generation capability development.

From MoU to induction, Pakistan's timeline for induction of J-31 is barely 3 years. And we are not in a hurry.

@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz
IMO ... the key point here is that Pakistan will, ultimately, join a consortium for its FGFA needs. Basically, share the risk and the funding, and leverage a superpower (like China) to secure the inputs.

There are trade-offs to the approach (you don't own everything, or most things), but it's the reality for every country but the superpowers and other consortium groups, and France and Russia (which are lone exceptions to the rule due to them being ex-superpowers).
 
Unlike HAL, PAC navigates through the projects intelligently. The figure of 10-15 years you just gave out depicts your own experience with LCA. Heck, it is even more modest since LCA took well above 3 decades. That's a life time of a regular fighter aircraft.

Lucky for us, we have 2 different emerging defense partners onboard, Turkey, and China. Both of them are prioritizing 5th generation aircraft design and development. This is something that India has always lacked, strategic partnerships. One of the prime reasons why LCA was reduced to a point defense fighter entering service well into the 2020's. That too while addressing a haphazard economic need to get the money flowing back into the economy while putting the air staff requirements of a credible fighter solution as secondary.

Dont challenge me on this. I know more about Indian AirForce and what happens in HAL more than you. You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago. So, please, stop glorifying what India is doing to address its needs.




The dilemmas of Indian Air Force and 5th generation requirement.

The Money

Out of US $65.9B (using Feb 1 exchange rate of 71.5 that was marked during the budget announcement), IAF loses $3B straight away with the exchange rate going down to Rs. 75.20 per dollar in today's money.

Pensions take up to 28.4% of the defense budget right away followed by the largest share. defense services that comprise 44.4% of the defense budget, 64.5% goes towards pay alone. The remainder is left for maintenance and is notoriously barely enough to upkeep and get the things running. This is before we get to 24% which goes towards capital expenditures of which let's assume, Air Force gets the largest chunk at 38%. 62% of which (USD $3.76b) goes into aircraft recapitalization. The bulk of this money is used to sustain past projects (also known as committed liabilities) such as Rafales. Interestingly there are reports that the current budget falls short on the committed liabilities in the present day. Once these committed liabilities are paid off, whatever is left might go into paying for a single squadron of fighters each year, which is the LCA Tejas. And this timeline goes up till 2029. Hence I dont see how you Indian fanboys fail to see what really stops GoI, IAF and HAL to progress towards a solution for a defense needs. It is poor management of finances and lots of corruption.

Capability development

IAF needs a credible engine ToT along with a high-performance radar (not the crap like Rajendra or Uttam that are failing tests to detect 4th generation jets). And India does not have a single ally willing it to do it for her.

When South Korea (which, unlike India, is a close US ally) teamed up with US companies to build their new fighter jet, SK was denied some critical technology that they explicitly asked for.... for instance, they ended up getting AESA technology from Saab...

Saab has worked on stealth technology, for instance through the Neuron program. The only thing listed above they cannot deliver on is the engine. However India will not get engine tech no matter what a/c they are buying. Saab is probably the only company that will be allowed to deliver substantial tech transfer on: stealth, AESA radar, avionics, and EW systems. The US companies will simply not be allowed to transfer that technology to India. Of course they can try to offer "dumbed down" versions that are sufficiently primitive to be allowed to be transferred, however, as demonstrated in SK, other options then become more attractive.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... t-program/

Russian options are also off the table since IAF pulled out of their program for 'reasons'. Until something really drastic changes, India does not, in any way, have any way forward as we speak to induct a 5th generation fighter before 2035.

Pakistan in the equation

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. The odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Or better yet, in any case of Indo-Sino war, Chinese J-20/J-31 might aswell be stationed at Qadri/Shorkot/Bholari to blow attacks on India.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years). In a nutshell, IAF is on the decline in the next 15 years when it comes to 5th generation capability development.

From MoU to induction, Pakistan's timeline for induction of J-31 is barely 3 years. And we are not in a hurry.

@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz
Nailed it

IMO ... the key point here is that Pakistan will, ultimately, join a consortium for its FGFA needs. Basically, share the risk and the funding, and leverage a superpower (like China) to secure the inputs.

There are trade-offs to the approach (you don't own everything, or most things), but it's the reality for every country but the superpowers and other consortium groups, and France and Russia (which are lone exceptions to the rule due to them being ex-superpowers).
Sir @Bilal Khan (Quwa) just for information do you see 2 different or only 1 manned based 5th gen projects under umbrella of Project Azm
 
Sir @Bilal Khan (Quwa) just for information do you see 2 different or only 1 manned based 5th gen projects under umbrella of Project Azm
I don't know, to be honest.

I think the global trend is to focus on one type of FGFA and build an eco-system of different types of drones around it. But the PAF might not go with that approach, can't say.
 
IMO ... the key point here is that Pakistan will, ultimately, join a consortium for its FGFA needs. Basically, share the risk and the funding, and leverage a superpower (like China) to secure the inputs.

There are trade-offs to the approach (you don't own everything or most things), but it's the reality for every country but the superpowers and other consortium groups, and France and Russia (which are lone exceptions to the rule due to them being ex-superpowers).

Pakistan's requirements are different. We do not want to own everything. We aim to decide with speed and certainty which means reducing risk. Going on our own in quest of owning everything means hitting the wall (like India) and rendering ourselves without results.

Hence, joining a consortium makes all the sense to fill our requirements. We will think about owning everything once we have a considerable industrial base and manpower is skilled enough to undertake such scientific endeavors with reduced risk of failure.
 
I don't know, to be honest.

I think the global trend is to focus on one type of FGFA and build an eco-system of different types of drones around it. But the PAF might not go with that approach, can't say.
Asked this becuz diffrent source seems Quote single and double engine with confidence.
As you said it might be derivation of FC31 aka J35 project PAC , which make complete sence and sensible approach like thandar program.
But source also deal PAC is also active with turky which mean might be a separate project in collaboration with turkey.
Which can make sence as contingency plan. So its given sence that might two project working actively initially

We all know project azam is not single project its group of project under one umbrella. With concept of medium weight and heavyweight

Pakistan's requirements are different. We do not want to own everything. We aim to decide with speed and certainty which means reducing risk. Going on our own in quest of owning everything means hitting the wall (like India) and rendering ourselves without results.

Hence, joining a consortium makes all the sense to fill our requirements. We will think about owning everything once we have a considerable industrial base and manpower is skilled enough to undertake such scientific endeavors with reduced risk of failure.
Valid, why to reinvent the wheel, when wheel all already available Just need to customize for fitting and utilization at max.
Look at saab gripen for example, its working out perfectly for them
 
Pakistan's requirements are different. We do not want to own everything. We aim to decide with speed and certainty which means reducing risk. Going on our own in quest of owning everything means hitting the wall (like India) and rendering ourselves without results.

Hence, joining a consortium makes all the sense to fill our requirements. We will think about owning everything once we have a considerable industrial base and manpower is skilled enough to undertake such scientific endeavors with reduced risk of failure.
Thank you for this. Coming from you this means the people that matter are cognizant of these things and this lets me sleep better at night.
 
Unlike HAL, PAC navigates through the projects intelligently. The figure of 10-15 years you just gave out depicts your own experience with LCA. Heck, it is even more modest since LCA took well above 3 decades. That's a life time of a regular fighter aircraft.

Lucky for us, we have 2 different emerging defense partners onboard, Turkey, and China. Both of them are prioritizing 5th generation aircraft design and development. This is something that India has always lacked, strategic partnerships. One of the prime reasons why LCA was reduced to a point defense fighter entering service well into the 2020's. That too while addressing a haphazard economic need to get the money flowing back into the economy while putting the air staff requirements of a credible fighter solution as secondary.

Dont challenge me on this. I know more about Indian AirForce and what happens in HAL more than you. You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago. So, please, stop glorifying what India is doing to address its needs.




The dilemmas of Indian Air Force and 5th generation requirement.

The Money

Out of US $65.9B (using Feb 1 exchange rate of 71.5 that was marked during the budget announcement), IAF loses $3B straight away with the exchange rate going down to Rs. 75.20 per dollar in today's money.

Pensions take up to 28.4% of the defense budget right away followed by the largest share. defense services that comprise 44.4% of the defense budget, 64.5% goes towards pay alone. The remainder is left for maintenance and is notoriously barely enough to upkeep and get the things running. This is before we get to 24% which goes towards capital expenditures of which let's assume, Air Force gets the largest chunk at 38%. 62% of which (USD $3.76b) goes into aircraft recapitalization. The bulk of this money is used to sustain past projects (also known as committed liabilities) such as Rafales. Interestingly there are reports that the current budget falls short on the committed liabilities in the present day. Once these committed liabilities are paid off, whatever is left might go into paying for a single squadron of fighters each year, which is the LCA Tejas. And this timeline goes up till 2029. Hence I dont see how you Indian fanboys fail to see what really stops GoI, IAF and HAL to progress towards a solution for a defense needs. It is poor management of finances and lots of corruption.

Capability development

IAF needs a credible engine ToT along with a high-performance radar (not the crap like Rajendra or Uttam that are failing tests to detect 4th generation jets). And India does not have a single ally willing it to do it for her.

When South Korea (which, unlike India, is a close US ally) teamed up with US companies to build their new fighter jet, SK was denied some critical technology that they explicitly asked for.... for instance, they ended up getting AESA technology from Saab...

Saab has worked on stealth technology, for instance through the Neuron program. The only thing listed above they cannot deliver on is the engine. However India will not get engine tech no matter what a/c they are buying. Saab is probably the only company that will be allowed to deliver substantial tech transfer on: stealth, AESA radar, avionics, and EW systems. The US companies will simply not be allowed to transfer that technology to India. Of course they can try to offer "dumbed down" versions that are sufficiently primitive to be allowed to be transferred, however, as demonstrated in SK, other options then become more attractive.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... t-program/

Russian options are also off the table since IAF pulled out of their program for 'reasons'. Until something really drastic changes, India does not, in any way, have any way forward as we speak to induct a 5th generation fighter before 2035.

Pakistan in the equation

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. The odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Or better yet, in any case of Indo-Sino war, Chinese J-20/J-31 might aswell be stationed at Qadri/Shorkot/Bholari to blow attacks on India.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years). In a nutshell, IAF is on the decline in the next 15 years when it comes to 5th generation capability development.

From MoU to induction, Pakistan's timeline for induction of J-31 is barely 3 years. And we are not in a hurry.

@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz
This post made my day. It is what I call a "shut the hell up" post. He will wait 2 days and then come back with a lame excuse---- debating a figure here and a detail there. But this is irrefutable. We have been lucky in how our interests have coincided with 2 emerging powerhouses and continuing collaboration will bear fruits.
Regards
A
 
You probably wouldn't even know we sent 2 interns in the Su-30 assembly facility to get us some nice blueprints years ago.
@Dazzler @Knuckles @araz @HRK @Arsalan @Trailer23 @Deino @Jungibaaz

If Pak could mange "interns" inside Su-30 line, how many such "interns (meaning folks known to the Turkish establishment)" are inside TAI/TEI/ASELSAN/ROKETSAN etc. facilities???

By the by, TFX will be developed block by block for a reason! It'll start with 4++ gen. Initial objectives are toward perfecting avionics, composite materials, advanced sensors embedded within the "skin", AESA, EW, AI etc...

 
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