Predator drones flown from base in Pakistan: US Senator ! WHO IS LYING

[batmannow]

My problem with that is that Pakistan is not acting in its interests. The cause of this radicalization is in part these missile strikes. Trying to appease the US with blood sacrifices every now and then is not better than making offerings to Kali now and then.

Once they start lying to the people, why should anyone believe they're actually making any progress in the WoT? They could just as well be making their daily offerings to Kali.

HOUNRABLE roadrunner;sir
I am agreed with you 1000% sir,
when people , start comparing 2 stiuations , one what we had in "BANGLADESH" , & the other 1 , now in FATA we are the having totaly different situations regurding of "BANGLADESH" , if we look the causes of both of them.
"BANGLADESH" was bieng created by the vast propaganda by INDIA & militry involvment,india who expolited the poorness of the citizens of bangladesh, & carelessness of then pakistan govt, which was too careless to solve the problums of then "EAST PAKISTANIS", all this resulted in hate aginst WEST PAKISTAN, & then it was seperated because of DISTANCE between the 2 wings, which made immposible to defend it from invading INDIA?

in FATA the insurgency occured , when USA invaded the afghanistan & toppled the govt, there after that , growing hate against USA +west , got the fire because of the attacks of these drones, insurgents got huge support from the locals , because they belived that USA+WEST are going to occupy the whole of the muslim lands, & the most nearly danger to them was, thier own FATA bieng occupied by the invading forces of USA+WEST?

this distrust got strong day by day, incidents like LAL MASJID kept happening & for now, most of the insurgents belive that PAKARMY is acting as weapon against them by USA+WEST.

that is the reason , why PAKARMY started to call off the drone attacks by US , & reacted strongly against them, i guss after considering the whole situation, they come to conclusion that, these drone attacks are a poision for the safty of the unity of country.
its the distrust, which is making all this mess , unsolvable!
the distrust of the pakistanis, on its forces, its leadership, its state is being grown up by these "drone attacks"

 

[XYON]

epool; sir
let me clear some of very wrong perceptions, in your mind, sory to differ with you ! no country in the world can accept the attacks like these ,even countries somalia resisted the unwanted , & unjustifyied meddling of USA in its affairs, NOW why ! pakistan having much more , militry might , nuclear assests, great flying force why , we cant do things by our selfs?

ACCORDING TO YOUR PERCEPTION!
I think that a the US Reaper is doing a far better job in killing the country-less foreigners who have made our border areas almost un-livable. It is these foreigners who have motivated & trained the locals (mostly 15 or 16 years old boys) to carry out suicide bombings in Pakistan and across the border. So if it was up to me, I would cut this proverbial head as soon as possible. Secondly, if one thinks form the US perspective, we'd be doing the same if in the US shoes. Why should the US allow sanctuaries in Pakistan for these criminals to prep and plan attacks? The issue which I am indeed concerned about is the death of the locals who are caught in between! However, if the attacks stop what guarantees are their that these areas will not be used for promoting further attacks and strengthen the hold of these country-less foreigners under the garb of peace and harmony?

1.who allowed sanctuaries in Pakistan , & for what?
2.who motivated & trained the locals , to fight who?
3.what guarantees are their that , once all this mess is over, USA & ITS ALLIES WILL NOT GOING TO OCCUPY PAKISTANI LANDS?

IF we took into consideration your ideas, it will be NYcops , controlling the local lawenforcement?
there is no justification , of these drome attacks in any way, its pakistani land, & there should be only , pakistani forces carrying out the "attacks against any one" who dares to work against pakistan in any way! wether it will be TALIBANS or USA+& ITS ALLIES.

C'mon Man! You really believe that stuff?? Here are your answers!

1. The sanctuaries had been initiated by pro-Taliban elements, namely Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, Osama Bin Landens, Aiman Al Zahwari's etc etc etc. Yes some elements from the Pakistani society such as the JI JUI have been protecting these elemnts in the misled name of Islam and Jihad.

2. The locals have recently been motivated and trained by the religious elements in the Pakistan society. Gone are the US-ISI trained Mujahedins of the 80's who fought the USSR, though very few have taken up the role of mentors!

3. Guarantees??? What guarantees that these misguided Talibans would not be taking over your whole Pakistani society (if not purged today by any means necessary) and turning it into a pre-prophet kingdom just as they did in Afghanistan during the Taliban era. Do you want your women to be shot in the head publicly in football stadiums or do you want your colleagues hung by electrical poles in public executions without trial or proper justice? and your are worried about NY Coppers taking over.....unbelievable! When was the last time the US occupied any nation in the world? For God Sakes...do not be swayed by emotions and hoopla, think logical and be real!

As I have indicated many a times in these posts that the Americans are filling a very important operational gap in our Armed Forces abilities by using the Reapers! The WANA area presents a complexed equation that requires a complex solution and the drone attacks is one constant that is needed to balance the strategic equation in this area! Unfortunate it may be, but we need the US muscle to neutralize these extremists in the area otherwise the alternative could be much worse!

 

[roadrunner]

Huh??

Letting these Ubeks Talib/AQ operate from Pakistani soil against Pakistani soldiers is in the interests of Pakistan???


Why does it seem to matter to you how these AQ/Talib are dispatched to hell?? Dispatched is dispatched, yes, no? If not by predator, then PAF and army aviation will have to do it -- would you rather that??

The point is they are killing civilians in strikes without end. Emphasis on the civilian bit. That is what I object to.

Now the without end bit. When these strikes occur it radicalizes the population against such strikes. What is the point of creating more radicals than the ones already present?

Silliest thing I have read to date.
And the reason robbers are robbers is because police are police???? Robbers become robbers in part, because of the police.

You don't need to quantify idiocy with me, as if it's a pissing contest you want, rest assured you will come off second best.

Robbers become robbers usually for lack of jobs, money, perhaps some are inherently evil and are responsible for their own downfall. Robbers do not become robbers because of the police. If you give a group of say 1000 robbers jobs that pay $100,000 a year, you will find that the majority, say 90% take that well paying job. Robbers are motivated by money usually, you give them a legal alternative they will on the whole do it. Exceptions will exist.

You can extend this to the military strikes. When a strike kills many innocent children, and the locals believe no guilty party was killed, they will be pushed into making sure it doesn't happen again. This is only the surface of it. Some people believe in the saying an eye for an eye, revenge is part of their culture. This is why people then take up arms to prevent such injustices in their eyes from reoccurring. These people are then seen as allies of the Taliban when they are of no such fundamental persuasion.
.

This poetic license and not worthy of you.

And you are 100% correct that Pakistan should have always taken responsibility for these attacks. Playing politics in this effort has been disaster.

It's very apt, and I had no intention of being poetic. When you shoot up innocent civilians for no gain of your own, that is a blood sacrifice. You're sacrificng people for the interest of others. This never happened under Musharraf.

 

[Musalman]

She probably didn't know herself and just assumed it.

I see no reason why America would choose to house their precious UAVs in Pakistan.

May be coz their equipment is safer in Pakistan

 

[batmannow]

C'mon Man! You really believe that stuff?? Here are your answers!

1. The sanctuaries had been initiated by pro-Taliban elements, namely Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, Osama Bin Landens, Aiman Al Zahwari's etc etc etc. Yes some elements from the Pakistani society such as the JI JUI have been protecting these elemnts in the misled name of Islam and Jihad.

2. The locals have recently been motivated and trained by the religious elements in the Pakistan society. Gone are the US-ISI trained Mujahedins of the 80's who fought the USSR, though very few have taken up the role of mentors!

3. Guarantees??? What guarantees that these misguided Talibans would not be taking over your whole Pakistani society (if not purged today by any means necessary) and turning it into a pre-prophet kingdom just as they did in Afghanistan during the Taliban era. Do you want your women to be shot in the head publicly in football stadiums or do you want your colleagues hung by electrical poles in public executions without trial or proper justice? and your are worried about NY Coppers taking over.....unbelievable! When was the last time the US occupied any nation in the world? For God Sakes...do not be swayed by emotions and hoopla, think logical and be real!

As I have indicated many a times in these posts that the Americans are filling a very important operational gap in our Armed Forces abilities by using the Reapers! The WANA area presents a complexed equation that requires a complex solution and the drone attacks is one constant that is needed to balance the strategic equation in this area! Unfortunate it may be, but we need the US muscle to neutralize these extremists in the area otherwise the alternative could be much worse!

1. The sanctuaries had been initiated by pro-Taliban elements, namely Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, Osama Bin Landens, Aiman Al Zahwari's etc etc etc. Yes some elements from the Pakistani society such as the JI JUI have been protecting these elemnts in the misled name of Islam and Jihad.

These sanctuaries had been initiated by CIA, to overthrow RUSSIA from AFGHANISTAN?
Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, Osama Bin Landens, Aiman Al Zahwari's were trainned by USA, through CIA to fight russians?

 

[muse]

RoadRunner


Alright I will come in second. Object all you want - That enemies of the Pakistani state are being killed by predator attacks is just fine with me.

That this did not happen under Musharraf only means that this government plays politics.

Civilian deaths? Then perhaps these talib AQ should not be sheltered by these "civilians"?

 

[batmannow]

RoadRunner


Alright I will come in second. Object all you want - That enemies of the Pakistani state are being killed by predator attacks is just fine with me.

That this did not happen under Musharraf only means that this government plays politics.

Civilian deaths? Then perhaps these talib AQ should not be sheltered by these "civilians"?

dear muse;sir
so that means , you are ready to accept the killings of pakistanis by "US drones" sadly.
next time if a CIA agent eyeing on you , clamming that you work for alqeada, then can you accept it, that you should be killed with out any trail, with out any justice.
how can you prove , that who is who?

 

[XYON]

These sanctuaries had been initiated by CIA, to overthrow RUSSIA from AFGHANISTAN?
Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, Osama Bin Landens, Aiman Al Zahwari's were trainned by USA, through CIA to fight russians?

Wrong my friend! ''Mujahideens'' of the 80's are now in their later 40's and 50's and not capable of fighting anymore! CIA created Osama Bin Laden, agreed! but now that the created Frankenstein has gone haywire especially towards Pakistan, it needs to be purged before this cancer eats through our nation's moderate values. I doubt if the CIA is stupid enough to still support & encourage or finance these elements today to fight and kill their own soldiers in Afghanistan!

 

[batmannow]

Wrong my friend! ''Mujahideens'' of the 80's are now in their later 40's and 50's and not capable of fighting anymore! CIA created Osama Bin Laden, agreed! but now that the created Frankenstein has gone haywire especially towards Pakistan, it needs to be purged before this cancer eats through our nation's moderate values. I doubt if the CIA is stupid enough to still support & encourage or finance these elements today to fight and kill their own soldiers in Afghanistan!

epool;sir
plz check out the history of "MULLAH UMAR" why he losted his eye, & where, dear friend i guss , you never been to FATA, or never been to AFGHANISTAN in the times of TAILIBANS, or in the times of russians?

let me tell you , i was there, it was "AFGHAN WAR" which killed gen.zia & the top brass of pakarmy.

 

[batmannow]

U.S. Missile Reported to Kill 20 in Pakistan
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
February 14, 2009
Filed at 12:20 p.m. ET

ISLAMABAD (AP) -- Dozens of followers of Pakistan's top Taliban commander were in a compound when a suspected U.S. missile attack hit Saturday, killing 27 militants in an al-Qaida stronghold near the Afghan border, officials said.

The strike appeared to be the deadliest yet by the American drone aircraft that prowl the frontier, and defied Pakistani warnings that the tactic is fueling extremism in the nuclear-armed Islamic nation.

In an interview unrelated to the attack, President Asif Ali Zardari said the Taliban had expanded their presence to a ''huge amount'' of Pakistan and were even eyeing a takeover of the state.

''We're fighting for the survival of Pakistan. We're not fighting for the survival of anybody else,'' Zardari said, according to a transcript of his remarks that CBS television said it would air Sunday.

Many Pakistanis believe the country is fighting Islamist militants, who have enjoyed state support in the past, only at Washington's behest.

Remotely piloted U.S. aircraft are believed to have launched more than 30 attacks over the past year, and American officials say al-Qaida's leadership and ability to support the insurgency in Afghanistan has been significantly weakened. But Pakistani officials say the vast majority of the victims are civilians.

After Saturday's strike, Taliban fighters surrounded the flattened compound in the village of Shrawangai Nazarkhel and carried away the dead and wounded in several vehicles. The village is in South Waziristan, part of the tribally governed area along the Afghan frontier considered the likely redoubt of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.

The victims included about 15 ethnic Uzbek militants and several Afghans, said Pakistani intelligence officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media. The seniority of the militants was unclear.

Two of the officials said dozens of followers of Pakistan's top Taliban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, were staying in the housing compound when it was hit. There was no indication that Mehsud was present.

Pakistan's former government and the CIA have named Mehsud as the prime suspect behind the December 2007 killing of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. Pakistani officials accuse him of harboring foreign fighters, including Central Asians linked to al-Qaida, and of training suicide bombers.

The accounts of Saturday's strike could not be verified independently. The tribally governed region is unsafe for reporters. The U.S. Embassy had no comment, while Pakistan's army spokesman was unavailable.

The new U.S. administration has brushed off Pakistani criticism that the missile strikes fuel extremist and anti-American sentiment and undercuts the government's own counterinsurgency strategy.

''The government is doing everything possible to stop it and I hope that America listens to the voice of the people of Pakistan,'' Pakistan's Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said Saturday.

Yet many analysts suspect Pakistan has quietly agreed to the attacks in order not to endanger billions of dollars in American and Western support for its powerful military and its ailing economy.

The pro-Western government in Islamabad, led by Bhutto widower Zardari, has signed peace deals with tribal leaders in the northwest while launching a series of military operations against hard-liners.

However, government forces are bogged down on several fronts in the northwest, and Taliban militants have sustained a campaign that has included a string of abductions and other attacks on foreigners.

On Friday, the kidnappers of an American employee of the United Nations threatened to kill him within 72 hours and issued a grainy 20-second video of the blindfolded John Solecki saying he was ''sick and in trouble.''

Gunmen seized Solecki on Feb. 2 after shooting his driver to death as they drove to work in Quetta, a southwestern city near the Afghan border.

The kidnappers identified themselves as the previously unknown Baluchistan Liberation United Front, indicating a link to local separatists rather than to Islamist militants.

Fears for Solecki's safety are intense after Taliban militants apparently beheaded an abducted Polish geologist in early February. A U.N. statement said it was aware of the kidnappers' demand for the release of 141 women allegedly held in Pakistan and was seeking ''urgent contact to discuss ways of securing his safe release.''
Malik said the international community should know that the demands were ''highly unrealistic.''

''I have shared that list of 141 women with authorities and all intelligence agencies. It does not have any reality,'' he told reporters in Quetta.

Malik said authorities trying to free Solecki were following strong leads and he was hopeful they would succeed.

------

Associated Press writers Munir Ahmad and Asif Shahzad in Islamabad and Abdul Sattar in Quetta contributed to this report.

 

[A.Rahman]

who are these women?

 

[XYON]

epool;sir
plz check out the history of "MULLAH UMAR" why he losted his eye, & where, dear friend i guss , you never been to FATA, or never been to AFGHANISTAN in the times of TAILIBANS, or in the times of russians?

let me tell you , i was there, it was "AFGHAN WAR" which killed gen.zia & the top brass of pakarmy.

Aray Baba! That is what I am saying........the new generation of these radical extremists is not the Mullah Umers or Osama Bind Ladens of the Afghan Wars in the 80's....they are a mix of foreign and local teenagers (mostly from poor families) being misguided by country-less foreigners from Chechnya, Uzbekistan etc and being funded by the Saudi radicals to say the least.

You are mixing the Mujahideens from the 80's with the youth of the extremist Taliban's of today! One is not necessarily related to the other!!

And by the way, Afghan war had ended when Zia died! He was killed by the CIA and KGB nexus and NOT by the Mujahideens of the time! Taliban DID NOT EXIST in those times! Kindly do not confuse yourself and others for that matter!

 

[roadrunner]

^^ The senior positions of the Taliban are the same fighters that formed the Mujahideen in the Afghan-Soviet war. Doesn't everyone know this?

Example, Mullah Omar fought in the Mujahideen, then became the senior commander of the Taliban.

The only difference now is that the foot soldiers of the Taliban are a mix of young and old.

 

[batmannow]

^^ The senior positions of the Taliban are the same fighters that formed the Mujahideen in the Afghan-Soviet war. Doesn't everyone know this?

Example, Mullah Omar fought in the Mujahideen, then became the senior commander of the Taliban.

The only difference now is that the foot soldiers of the Taliban are a mix of young and old.

hounrable , roadrunner; sir
thanks for backing me up, actully our nation's memory is to short in whole!
the "senior positions of the Taliban" ,the ideaology of talibans was being manufactured by the people like , USAMA BIN LADEN, MULLAH UMMER, who were given a cleaning job by pentagon in mid 90's, with help of ISI, which manged the whole afghan war.

 

[batmannow]

GEO Pakistan
Malakand Nifaz-e-Shariat talks between NWFP Govt., Maulana Sufi
Updated at: 1446 PST, Sunday, February 15, 2009

TIMAR GRAH: The final talks between Tahrik-e-Nifaz Shariat Muhammadi’s chief Maulana Sufi Muhammad and the NWFP government on the enforcement of Shariat in Malakand Division concluded here.

Sources said that the provincial delegation constituted of NWFP Information Minister, Mian Iftikhar Hussain, ANP Central Secretary Information, Zahid Khan and provincial Minister, Haji Hidayetullah Khan held talks with Maulana Sufi Muhammad at the Rest House here.

Following the talks ANP Secretary Information, Zahid Khan told that a representative of Tahrik-e-Nifaz Shariat would attend a meeting slated tomorrow in the Chief Minister House, when the today’s agreed agreement in writing would be inked.

On the other hand, Tahrik-e-Nifaz Shariat sources told that a five-point agreement with the government has been concluded in the meeting.