Predator drones flown from base in Pakistan: US Senator ! WHO IS LYING

[SSGPA1]

It all started in the time of Gen Musharraf and it was his sole responsibility to devise a strategy to stop these attacks. If the first strong ruler failed to stop US attacks, why should only the next ruler be accused?

There is no proof that Gen Mushharf ever allowed these drones and he has himself denied this.

Number of attacks was very low and Musharraf said the following:
"The United States seems to think that what our army cannot do, they can do. This is a very wrong perception. I challenge anybody to come into our mountains. They would regret that day," Musharraf said in an interview to Straits Times.

Deccan Herald - Mush to US: Don't dare enter Pak

So the first ruler did everything possible and kept the enemy at bay. These attacks are far deadly and frequent since Musharraf left and Zardari is no Musharraf.

If you are relating the Image of PA with drone attacks, why PA allowed such attacks and provided bases for them in the first place?

Everyone knows that Gen Musharraf provided every type of support to US forces. The discussion now is "Are drones still operating from Pakistan?".

how do you know that drones are flying from Pakistan??

Why do you trust people who have political affiliations with forces against Pakistan?

Why do you trust a US senator who is not trusted by her own country?

What else was Musharraf supposed to do? When the entire world was supporting teh US due to 9/11 he couldn't sacrifice Pakistan for the sake of Afghanistan.

Nawaz Sharif and BB along with other political leadership supported this deccision.

Qazi Hussain would have doen the same if he was the President.

WE all Pakistani want that Armed Forces be respected but it will not materialise with just wishful thinking. Your action speaks louder than words. Actions should reflect the policy. We can't do anything to improve this image untill armed forces themselves think about their own image.

So it is okay for our politicians to go and beg Generals for Martial Law? Bigger responsibility is on politicians because they ask for our votes and promise to serve this country.

In order to stay on this topic, my questions are:

Is there any proof?

All attacks happen in day light and everyone has seen these drones coming from Afghan side and going bakc to the same side.

Has anyone seen these drones flying in and out of Tarbela area or any other Pakistani AB?

Can we trust Sen Dianne?

Can we trust GEO?

 

[SSGPA1]

"
PREDATOR will continue until such time as your nation assumes it's obligations to secure FATA from attacking Afghanistan. We won't do less and we may do more in this regard. Securing FATA's sovereignty once again will entail the virtual re-conquest of lands for which the militants are fully prepared to fight and quite able to defend if Bajaur is any indication. It will be bloody as they completely believe that they can defeat you and HOLD what they've made theirs.

Pakistan has made many precious sacrifices in this war and now situation in Bajor is turning in favor of PA.

These wars take time and resources and you should be the last person looking for a quicker resolution.

It will take time but insha-Allah this war will be won, not for saving US' a** but for for the sake of Pakistan.

 

[shehbazi2001]

There is no proof that Gen Mushharf ever allowed these drones and he has himself denied this.
Number of attacks was very low and Musharraf said the following:
"The United States seems to think that what our army cannot do, they can do. This is a very wrong perception. I challenge anybody to come into our mountains. They would regret that day," Musharraf said in an interview to Straits Times.

Deccan Herald - Mush to US: Don't dare enter Pak

So the first ruler did everything possible and kept the enemy at bay. These attacks are far deadly and frequent since Musharraf left and Zardari is no Musharraf.



how do you know that drones are flying from Pakistan??

Why do you trust people who have political affiliations with forces against Pakistan?

Why do you trust a US senator who is not trusted by her own country?

What else was Musharraf supposed to do? When the entire world was supporting teh US due to 9/11 he couldn't sacrifice Pakistan for the sake of Afghanistan.

Nawaz Sharif and BB along with other political leadership supported this deccision.

Qazi Hussain would have doen the same if he was the President.

So it is okay for our politicians to go and beg Generals for Martial Law? Bigger responsibility is on politicians because they ask for our votes and promise to serve this country.

In order to stay on this topic, my questions are:

Is there any proof?

All attacks happen in day light and everyone has seen these drones coming from Afghan side and going bakc to the same side.

Has anyone seen these drones flying in and out of Tarbela area or any other Pakistani AB?

Can we trust Sen Dianne?

Can we trust GEO?

Dont ask for the proof. Havent you seen the satellite pic of Reaper drones in a base of Pakistan which has been posted in this thread? Haven't you read the posts of Muradk, where he mentioned that drones are/were flying from Peshawar? Havent you watched numerous TV programs in which people reported the same thing?

For Musharraf, I dont say that he allowed these attacks. My point is that he failed to stop these attacks either diplomatically or militarily or any other way. It is clear that it was the failure of his foreign policy.

Gen Hamid Gul himself said that there was no threat given to Musharraf by US to be sent to stone ages. Now you shall claim that Gen Hamid Gul is a liar. You are not even ready to trust Gen Aslam Baig. Additionally, the US senator is not the only one to point out this.

 

[shehbazi2001]

"Everyone knows that Gen Musharraf provided every type of support to US forces."

This isn't true.

Everyone actually knows that Musharraf sent 70,000 troops to the afghan border in November 2001 to facilitate the wholesale transfer of your nation's sovereignty in FATA to the defeated taliban army of Afghanistan. That's why we hold so little regard for your complaints of violations of sovereignty there. You have none.

You should applaud Musharraf for his surreptitious retention of Pakistan's afghani trump card despite their panicked retreat into Pakistan. Of course, the small cost was the erosion of the final vestiges of state control here and the raising forth of a new sovereign nation-the Islamic Republic of Pashtunistan which is at war with Afghanistan.

Most who die by PREDATOR are ours and your enemies-not innocent civilians. Husbands and wives who'd permit these men into their homes aid and abet America's enemies.

We reject that Pakistan has chosen to aid and abet these men and have determined to defend ourselves. They make war daily upon the citizens of Afghanistan and interfere with the U.N. mission there-all of which hardly raises an eyebrow among Pakistanis.

Little wonder nobody cares what you really think about PREDATOR. It's irrelevant as an issue of sovereignty. Sovereign control affirms both rights and responsibilities. You've a rather selective perspective there which is anathemic to the concept of sovereignty.

PREDATOR will continue until such time as your nation assumes it's obligations to secure FATA from attacking Afghanistan. We won't do less and we may do more in this regard. Securing FATA's sovereignty once again will entail the virtual re-conquest of lands for which the militants are fully prepared to fight and quite able to defend if Bajaur is any indication. It will be bloody as they completely believe that they can defeat you and HOLD what they've made theirs.

Wish you luck if and when you get around to saving your nation.

For the regard to my complaints, why would someone bother about me. I have no role in govt affairs (like many members here). Its mainly the exchange of ideas and a platform for learning from one another and not for formulating Pakistan's policy.

Although a reponse to your post should be given by an official person with some responsibility but for the sake of discussion I would put following points.

Look at the Pak-India crisis over the Bombay bombings. Pakistan is saying that it shall do a trial of culprits "inside" Pakistan and no one is to be handed over to India.

Govt of Pakistan wants the US not to act by itself as it is against the international law and undermining the sovereignty and honor of an ally. GOP is demanding its own right to punish culprits by "itself". That is why FC and PA are there!

When people are killed by US drones, GoP can't persuade those triabls to not to fight against US forces in Afghanistan. Drone attacks are acting like a catalyst for generating militants against US and Pakistani establishment which is ally of US in WoT. It is as simple as this.

 

[SSGPA1]

Dont ask for the proof. Havent you seen the satellite pic of Reaper drones in a base of Pakistan which has been posted in this thread? Haven't you read the posts of Muradk, where he mentioned that drones are/were flying from Peshawar? Havent you watched numerous TV programs in which people reported the same thing?

Do you know which post sir MuradK stated that drones attacking Pakistanis are fyling out of Peshawar?

People on TV mean nothing to me. Sat. pics show drones in Pakistan but not firing Hellfires.

These attacks are mostly taking place in day time and if the attacks are happening from Pehsawar or other AFB then there will be several witnesses.

There is no proof but confusions.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Do you know which post sir MuradK stated that drones attacking Pakistanis are fyling out of Peshawar?

People on TV mean nothing to me. Sat. pics show drones in Pakistan but not firing Hellfires.

These attacks are mostly taking place in day time and if the attacks are happening from Pehsawar or other AFB then there will be several witnesses.

There is no proof but confusions.

See post#16 of this thread. I cant do more spoon-feeding than this.

 

[roadrunner]

Why would Zardari deny it?

The conspiracy is to ensure that Pakistanis loose faith in PA and ISI, general impression building in Pakistan is that we can't trust anyone.

Question is what is the target of the spin doctors?

Dismantling of Pakistan? Attack on Nuclear installations?

Mass confusion and hopeless attitudes will serve Pakistan's enemy the best.

Because it's frontline news, and will contribute to more instability.

He should deny it.

 

[roadrunner]

I think the Bombing to Stone Age remarks were genuine personally, simply because the US could have got away with it that long ago.

It's really Hamid Gul's word versus Musharraf's. Depends who you trust more.

 

[shehbazi2001]

People on TV mean nothing to me. Sat pics show drones in Pakistan but not firing Hellfires.

These attacks are mostly taking place in day time and if the attacks are happening from Pehsawar or other AFB then there will be several witnesses.

A picture of drone firing Hellfire would serve no purpose. It shall not be able to prove that it has taken off from Pakistan. Drone attacks are a fact, we dont need to show picture of drone attack.

you say that if there is drone take off, there would be witnesses and then you say that you dont trust those TV programs in which people of Pakistan are calling the hosts and telling them that they have seen US drones taking off!

I think you better take some sleep, sincerely.

 

[roadrunner]

Most who die by PREDATOR are ours and your enemies-not innocent civilians. Husbands and wives who'd permit these men into their homes aid and abet America's enemies.

I'd reject that silly generalization.

For all we know they could be 100% innocent civilians.

Let's assume that they tell the truth and they do get one or two foreigners in the strikes.

Those strikes do leave blast debris, one factor that contributes to civilian casualties.

A second factor is that people tend to operate on an innocent until proven guilty basis in the area, giving people hospitality should they ask for it. This might be something you never heard of, so learn it.

A third factor is simply predator drones do not offer the choice of surrender. The procedure with drones is shoot first, ask questions later.

Let's hope you get yourself, what you wish on other people.

 

[S-2]

"Drone attacks are acting like a catalyst for generating militants against US and Pakistani establishment which is ally of US in WoT. It is as simple as this."

No. It is simple but it's hardly that. You act now as though this is a recent phenomena to hate America in this area. Further, you ignore the presence of a foreign army upon your soil for seven years. To me, the ensuing radicalization of your tribal populace by these men and their ambitions for Afghanistan has spawned the copycat so-called "bad taliban". Drones are the least resistance which we can pose and still influence a battleground left undisturbed by your army.

Meanwhile these men have killed innocent Afghanis by the thousands since 2002. As I've mentioned, with nary a whimper by the citizens of Pakistan. One might conclude that neither the Pakistani army nor most of your citizens really object to the making of war upon Afghanistan from your soil and that you rather WELCOMED these men in late 2001-2002. It certainly explains how no shots were fired nor resistance given by the vaunted Pakistani army against this rag-tag and VERY defeated military refuse trickling across your borders.

No. There's been no lack of those within FATA to be willing to oppose the U.N.'s interests in Afghanistan-foremost, seemingly, the Pakistani government and it's army.

There's simply no other explanation for the fact that a defeated foreign army has gained sustenance and sanctuary in your lands and by the hands of your citizens and at the approval of your government.

Now that it's blowing up in your face on all fronts you duplicitously sing another tune. These missiles strike with unerring accuracy to the inevitable cordoning of the attack site by militants.

About 200 died in 2008. Of those two hundred, you can have a rough approximation of the "collateral damage" by subtracting the apparent deaths of targets. This shall leave, of course, the apparent death of innocents. Those numbers pale compared to the carnage these men have sown on Afghanistan in the same time or, for that matter, your own nation. It also pales to the inevitable war that awaits this area if and when your army finally moves to reclaim your lands.

Understand this, please. If and when, no matter how "softly, softly" you proceed, your army shall find a citizenry and enemy that are one and the same. Those that aren't, like Bajaur and SWAT, will leave in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS as refugees. There will be open warfare to reclaim your nation and many lives shall be lost. PREDATOR shall pale against that future mayhem as well.

You've tried to play the pashtuns for years by directing their focus on Afghanistan. Now they direct their focus instead on both Afghanistan AND Pakistan. This war is now really, really yours.

 

[S-2]

"For all we know they could be 100% innocent civilians."

Only in your perverse dreams. More likely, for all you know, they could be 100% irhabists.

"A third factor is simply predator drones do not offer the choice of surrender. The procedure with drones is shoot first, ask questions later."

Indeed. The Islamic State of Pashtunistan is at war with the U.N. and Afghanistan. We attack targets-not arrest them. Dead is very good with these men as nothing else stands between them and the afghan people whom they slaughter daily without a tear by their Pakistani "brothers". Why should you, correct? You're the ones who have unleashed these dogs upon them and given them succor in defeat.

Now they bite you too and yet you still waffle. There's a reason for that, of course.

"Let's hope you get yourself, what you wish on other people."

Same to you. Enjoy.

 

[SSGPA1]

A picture of drone firing Hellfire would serve no purpose. It shall not be able to prove that it has taken off from Pakistan. Drone attacks are a fact, we dont need to show picture of drone attack.

you say that if there is drone take off, there would be witnesses and then you say that you dont trust those TV programs in which people of Pakistan are calling the hosts and telling them that they have seen US drones taking off!

I think you better take some sleep, sincerely.

No witnesses are calling TV hosts and saying this. People who are so called analysts are saying this.

If drones were flying from Pakistan bases, PA would have taken credit because it will be a far more accptable situation for Pakistanis.


It is 5:00 pm EST in TO so there is no need to get sleep.
However, it is late in Pakistan therefore you should get some sleep.

 

[Solomon2]

epool, thanks for making me smile. Your answer, of course, was nothing: you had no response other than to call me ignorant (hardly a crime) and accuse me of stupidity. There was no counter to my argument. Thus, your response was an attempt at diversion, something to steer people away from considering my supposition. Perhaps there is more truth in it than you'd like others to believe.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Only in your perverse dreams. More likely, for all you know, they could be 100% irhabists.

Indeed. The Islamic State of Pashtunistan is at war with the U.N. and Afghanistan. We attack targets-not arrest them. Dead is very good with these men as nothing else stands between them and the afghan people whom they slaughter daily without a tear by their Pakistani "brothers". Why should you, correct? You're the ones who have unleashed these dogs upon them and given them succor in defeat.

:

Like your drones, you are again violating the limits of decency. There is no such word as Islamic State of Pashtunistan in Pakistani Dictionary. I am not aware of your dictionary. Pakistan does not patronize any mass murder missions and denounces such motives. Daily slaughter of afghans by Pakistanis may be only a wild imagination but not a reality.