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Predator drones flown from base in Pakistan: US Senator ! WHO IS LYING

"Daily slaughter of afghans by Pakistanis may be only a wild imagination but not a reality."

You're smart enough to understand where the taliban army went in 2001. It's very much a sad reality that your nation allowed safe harbor for the defeated taliban army then. They reconstituted upon your soil and still do. We know that.

This salient fact speaks volumes.

Regardless of whether it's afghan or Pakistani men doing the killing in Afghanistan, much of them, their supplies, and their sanctuary lie in Pakistan- by consent of your government and people.

Now that seems to need changing as it's spawned it's own ugly local variant that appears bent on conquering more than simply the Islamic State of Pashtunistan. They want all of the nation formerly known as Pakistan. Nor have the attacks ceased upon the afghanis from your lands. They want, naturally, THAT too.

You know the truth. It's o.k. We understand how hard it is for your cititzens and policy makers to come face to face with the demons of your own creation.

It doesn't matter, fortunately. PREDATOR flies and will continue to do so. Those are the most stark facts upon which you may count, sir.


You are enforcing your ideas upon others without looking into the various aspects of an issue. In 2001, taliban may have entered Pakistan in the aftermath of US attack but they did not enter Pakistan with guns hanging from their shoulders and bullet-belts on their waists. If someone drops his arms and enters Pakistan as Civilian, no one can guess whether he was part of taliban or otherwise.

When USSR attacked Afghanistan, refugees came to Pakistan. When US attacked Afghanistan, refugees again entered Pakistan. Even in Bajaur, people migrated to other areas. How would Pakistan discriminate between an ordinary afghan and an ex-taliban? Have you invented some brain-scanner?

You are also mixing afghan taliban with pakistani tribes or say TTP. There may exist some weak coordination between the two across the border but its afghan taliban who you are facing in Afghanistan. Its absolutely absurd to believe that each and every attack is coming from across the border.
 
"Lets not get so carried away with diatribes that we start distorting the truth on everything shall we."

Really? I resent that. Distortion is not in the Pakistani lexicon, is it?:tsk: Well, if you've points of contention, let's read them.

Did you correct SSGPA1's account of narcotics protection, knowing full well from the UNODC 2008 report that opium production in U.S. controlled areas of Afghanistan is approaching nil? Why not?

The question about supplies and more is salient and spot on. The sanctuary from WAR lies in Pakistan. It is to Pakistan that they feel safety. When in Afghanistan, these men know that their lives are in danger, A.M.

The only way these same men know that upon crossing back into Pakistan is by PREDATOR...and they return to Pakistan over and over again.

Sorry that the real truth is so upsetting. We've had some serious revelations the last few days from Feinstein's comments and Sanger's book. Nothing surprising-you've been double dealing.

At this point your perceptions are running counter to our narrative. I'm liking my view of matters rather well. Here's hoping this administration does the correct thing.

Just to clarify, publicly, my only issue with your post was over the 'supplies' question.

On the Narcotics issue, I think it is a very hard argument to make, to delineate between the various member nations in Afghanistan - regardless of which NATO nation is responsible for what territory in Afghanistan, it will always be considered a US operation and the US will be considered responsible for whatever happens anywhere in Afghanistan. You guys are the top dogs there.
 
"On the Narcotics issue, I think it is a very hard argument to make, to delineate between the various member nations in Afghanistan - regardless of which NATO nation is responsible for what territory in Afghanistan, it will always be considered a US operation and the US will be considered responsible for whatever happens anywhere in Afghanistan. You guys are the top dogs there."

That's a stock response that avoids the practical reality. It actually is a U.N. mission of which we are a primary player. Informed observers shouldn't resort to this generalization, though, in light of the actual political considerations currently prevailing.

The coalition in Afghanistan is important. We've allies that have made critical contributions. I imagine the breakout of British, Canadian, Dutch, Dane, and Australian troops in the area approaches 15,000 or more. We've, in deference to them in these areas, largely played a supportive role-if any role at all. Until now, there were few U.S. forces in the south aside from SOF and one marine contingent last summer.

We've acceded to these nation's perspectives on narcotics control in these areas. They've faced great difficulties from the related military challenges in this area so I'm uncertain to what degree they bear full responsibility. Nonetheless I know that we experience combat routinely in Nangahar. The enemy is very much present. Still, opium isn't. This was a MAJOR opium producer in 2004 at 28,000 planted hectares. It's now zero.

I guess that I expect those whom know better to see the more nuanced view. The British gov't., for exclamations of "poodledom" is hardly a second-rate player in Afghanistan and are therefore treated with great deference-as they deserve to be given their sacrifice. So too the Canadians, Dutch, Danes, and Aussies down south.

We'll tote the largest load and bear the greatest costs but I hope that it's an effort that's realized by the world as sufficiently worthy for any and all to be engaged in some way. To date that's legitimately been the case.

We'll see to what extent it remains so.
 
"
. Nothing surprising-you've been double dealing.

Talk of the double dealing!!!!!!


Afghan Heroin Suspect Was U.S. Asset, He Says


Published: June 8, 2008

In August 2004, in a hotel room overlooking the Persian Gulf, an Afghan mujahedeen commander met with two Americans to talk about the Taliban, the heroin trade and the possibility of helping the United States by revealing what he knew about the complex political situation back home.

Mr. Noorzai is accused of shipping heroin to New York.
The commander’s name was Haji Bashir Noorzai. The Americans he spoke with in the bustling desert emirate of Dubai were federal contract agents who, court papers say, told him they were on a special project to track the “financial support” of terrorist organizations in Afghanistan.

After discussions spanning three days, the agents told Mr. Noorzai they wanted him to come to the United States to continue discussions, and promised that he would not be arrested. He might have had a reason to believe them: his lawyer says he had worked with the United States before, helping combat the Taliban.

What happened next was either a betrayal or an act of covert justice, depending on who is asked. When Mr. Noorzai arrived in the United States in mid-2005, he was picked up at the airport and whisked off to an Embassy Suites hotel where two weeks later, after much questioning, he was arrested, accused of shipping heroin to New York.

This week, after three years in jail, Mr. Noorzai, 45, will finally have a chance to answer that charge at a federal drug trial in New York. The trial, scheduled to open Wednesday, is likely to be part Steve Coll, part Robert Stone: as much a spy tale as a dissection of United States policy, which some say favored befriending suspected drug smugglers, at least temporarily, if they could help in the fight against terrorism.

Mr. Noorzai has pleaded not guilty to charges that he smuggled heroin into New York and denies any involvement in drug trafficking. His lawyers are expected to argue that he was duped at his meetings in Dubai in 2004. The government contends not only that he dealt drugs — he was once described as the Asian counterpart to Pablo Escobar, the Colombian cocaine king — but that the agents who offered him free passage were not allowed to do so.

Before his arrest in April 2005, Mr. Noorzai was a wealthy leader of the so-called Noorzai tribe, a transnational clan with a million members in southern Afghanistan and the Baluchistan Province of Pakistan. He spent his time mainly in Quetta, Pakistan, with three wives and 13 children, but maintained other homes in Afghanistan and the United Arab Emirates.

In 1982, court papers say, he led a thousand-strong army in the Afghan war against the Soviets and, eight years later, according to his lawyer, agreed to track down missing Stinger missiles provided to the Afghan resistance by the C.I.A. In 1996, the government says, Mr. Noorzai disarmed his forces and threw his support behind the Taliban, which had just stormed into Kabul.

His lawyer, Ivan Fisher, has argued that Mr. Noorzai’s cooperation with the United States was frequent and extensive, especially after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 and a later detention by American forces in Afghanistan. Mr. Fisher says Mr. Noorzai was freed after he agreed to work for the United States.

Mr. Fisher says Mr. Noorzai followed through on his promise. In 2002, for instance, Mr. Fisher said, Mr. Noorzai handed over 15 truckloads of weapons, including some 400 antiaircraft missiles, that the Taliban had hidden on tribal land. He also acted as a liaison between the Taliban and the United States, helping to persuade a former foreign minister for the Taliban, Mullah Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil, to meet with the Americans, his lawyer said.

At the same time, he was a major player in the Afghan drug trade, officials of the Drug Enforcement Administration say, controlling vast poppy fields that supplied a large share of the world’s heroin. As an early backer of the Taliban, he gave the group explosives, weapons and manpower in exchange for their protection of his opium crops, his heroin labs and smuggling routes, officials say.

In June 2004, the State Department placed Mr. Noorzai’s name on a list of the most wanted drug lords in the world. Two months later, the two contractors contacted Mr. Noorzai (at least in part through Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, court papers say) and arranged a series of meetings, from Aug. 7 to Aug. 9, 2004, at the hotel in Dubai. They told him they were working for the F.B.I. and the Department of Defense.

The contractors, whom court papers identify only as Mike and Brian, told Mr. Noorzai that they were studying financial networks supporting terrorists in Afghanistan. According to a transcript of the first day’s conversation, which was taped by the agents, Mike told Mr. Noorzai that “the goal of this project is not to arrest anybody, apprehend anybody, secretly follow anyone.”

In fact, Mike said, Mr. Noorzai should “come to the United States for a couple weeks as we have discussed,” later adding: “It’s like a little vacation. For probably two weeks and back to Dubai.”

After another meeting in Peshawar, Pakistan, that year, the discussions seemed to fizzle out. But then, in March 2005, court papers say, Mike and Brian got back in touch with Mr. Noorzai and met him again in Dubai. The government says the agents were working for the D.E.A. at this time, but acknowledges that they did not tell Mr. Noorzai.

They arranged for him to travel to New York, but did not tell him that two months earlier, in January 2005, he had been secretly indicted by a federal grand jury in Manhattan.

When he arrived at John F. Kennedy Airport, on April 13, 2005, he was met by Drug Enforcement Administration agents who made small talk while they drove him to an Embassy Suites hotel near ground zero. They debriefed him over 11 days, reading him the Miranda rights every morning. Mr. Noorzai waived his right to a lawyer.

He apparently felt comfortable enough, court papers say, to have called his cousin in Pakistan one day to tell him things were fine. He called his mother that same day, saying he was in New York and working, and had not yet booked a ticket back to Pakistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/world/asia/08noorzai.html


It is just tip of the iceburg
 
If the main runway of Frankfurt International Airport can be made in just one night, what do u expect how much time it would take to prepare a small airstrip for UAVs? How many hours are you ready to give for that? I would give at most 3 hours.

I am now confident that you know nothing about UAVs. There is no such thing as "Control Launch Pad". Control station is separate from launch pad. UAVs either need launch pad or airstrip, not both of them. If a UAV can be launched from launch pad, it can be launched even from the roof of a building.

Marriot was said to be used only as a "Ground Control Station" not as operating base. I know how much space is required for a GCS. Its not more than a room in a hotel or a room in your house. Army units use a truck cabin as GCS.

You were again too much confident without knowing a,b,c of UAVs.

I am sincerely dissapointed yet not surprised somehow in the quality of your post & the limit of your knowledge on UAV and their types above, and that too from a 'Think Tank' on this forum? the Mod should seriously reconsider your status as a Think Tank!! Its depressing! And may be you a serving PAF officer??? Double depressing!!

First, Reaper is not a 'small UAV' and it requires elaborate equipment prep & planning before each mission. Only a certified IDIOT would presume that it could be launched from a made up runway in 3 hours the middle of hilly terrain in and around Tarbela!

Second, who said anything about a 'Control Launch Pad', wake up and read my post again with eyes wide open dumbwit!

Reaper being launched from a roof of a building??!!!?? :rofl: :rofl: Maybe you are confusing this UCAV with your 'Patang' or kite on Basant Day?

Marriott being used as a Ground Control Station for the Reaper UCAV???!!!???? :crazy: Yeah and maybe the Chief Chef in the Marriott Kitchen was the US Joints Chief himself?? :rofl: I think the US Embassy compound in Islamabad was too small for the Americans to safely operate the complexed Reaper UCAV GCS and so they chose a 10x7 feet Marriott room to do all their missions in Wana! Maybe they were missing the room service?? Simply Ridiculous!

Please be all means continue with your descriptions further on the subject as your expertise on UAV's here is indeed unchallenged! :crazy::rofl:
 
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Okay, here are my conspiracy theories regarding the inopportune revelation by
Senator.Feinstein:
1)The US feels that the Pakistani Govt & the Military is too soft on the Taliban in Pakistan and isn't doing enough. The yanks feel that the reason for this 'softness' is
because the present govt & the military are too busy vying with each other for the support of the people, to concentrate on the war on terror. The best way to stop the GOP & Military from their power games and get them to focus on the Taliban issue is to turn on the heat. But turning on the heat from outside (occasional calls from US, visits by US ambassadors & generals) is not working, so the next option is to turn on the heat from the 'inside'... By revealing that the drone attacks are being conducted from Pakistani soil, the yanks have shown the GOP & the military to be liars in front of their own people. The people will vent their ire on GOP & military (already visible on this forum), public anger will rise and a panicky GOP & pak military will want to diffuse the situation quickly... HOW? by stopping/reducing the drone attacks. To do this GOP & the Pak military will run to the yanks and beg them to stop/reduce these attacks by promising to kick some Taliban butt. Conclusion:Yanks happy, GOP & Pak military happy.

2)This whole revelation thing might have been engineered by the US & the Pak military to make the Zardari govt look bad in front of the people so as to create another alibi for a military takeover? WHY?... because basically the US & Pak military feel that a civilian govt in Pakistani is (and never will be) strong enough to fight the Taliban and similar other radicals in Pakistan who are fast gaining popularity. Hence the "Operation kick-democracy-out-and-put-Military-back". Conclusion:Yanks happy, Pak military happy.

3)This whole revelation thing might have been engineered by the US & Zardari to make the Pak military look bad in front of the people and erode it's popularity. WHY?... to keep Pak military out of politics and ensure that the fledgling democracy is allowed to take root. In this scenario, I guess Zardari must have offered free rein to the yanks to go Taliban-hunting in Pak if he is allowed to be in Power. Conclusion: Yanks happy, GOP happy.
 
First, Reaper is not a 'small UAV' and it requires elaborate equipment prep & planning before each mission. Only a certified IDIOT would presume that it could be launched from a made up runway in 3 hours the middle of hilly terrain in and around Tarbela!

Second, who said anything about a 'Control Launch Pad', wake up and read my post again with eyes wide open dumbwit!

Reaper being launched from a roof of a building??!!!?? :rofl: :rofl: Maybe you are confusing this UCAV with your 'Patang' or kite on Basant Day?

Marriott being used as a Ground Control Station for the Reaper UCAV???!!!???? :crazy: Yeah and maybe the Chief Chef in the Marriott Kitchen was the US Joints Chief himself?? :rofl: I think the US Embassy compound in Islamabad was too small for the Americans to safely operate the complexed Reaper UCAV GCS and so they chose a 10x7 feet Marriott room to do all their missions in Wana! Maybe they were missing the room service?? Simply Ridiculous!

Please be all means continue with your descriptions further on the subject as your expertise on UAV's here is indeed unchallenged! :crazy::rofl:


You are now completely out of logic. Yes Reaper is bigger than Predator etc but its not bigger than Boeing/Airbus commerical jets that land on runways prepared in one night. Also mission planning has nothing to do with size of runway or size of UAV.

You used the word "Control Launch Pad" in your post #171, which I quoted in my post#180. If you don't see it, ask someone who has a brain too in addition to eyes.

I never said that Reaper is launched from rooftop, although it can be launched from a ground launch pad, after required modifications. Russia even launched a full-fledged fighter like Mig-19 (F-6 in PAF) with pilot inside from launch pad, without the use of runway. You should do some reading before challenging others.
 
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GEO Pakistan
US missile attack kills 30 in Kurram Agency
Updated at: 1407 PST, Monday, February 16, 2009

PARACHINAR: The death toll of US drone attack in Kurram Agency has raised to 30.

According to reports, four US drones fired four missiles at suspected hideouts of militants in Sarpal area of tehsil Sadda of lower Kurram. Intially, 15 people were killed in the attack.

Many bodies were trapped under the rubble and 30 bodies have been recovered so far. Several people sustained injuries in the attack.

Sources said there was a camp of Afghan Commander Bahram Khan Kochi in Sarpal area. US drones continued patrolling in the area after the attack.

This was the first US drone attack in Kurram Agency, however, drones made regular flights in these areas in the past.:disagree::tsk::angry:
 
"...four US drones fired four missiles"

Cool. I wonder if they attacked in formation. That be neat, eh?:agree:
 
I knew that we have some secret agreement with americans :D
 
"...four US drones fired four missiles"

Cool. I wonder if they attacked in formation. That be neat, eh?:agree:

Do you think that the drone controllers have to sit in adjacent chairs next to each other to fly in formation? If you can't wave to the "pilot" next to you, does it count?? We should have a drone "flying aces" crew that goes to airshows all over the world.......
 
I knew that we have some secret agreement with americans :D

s90;sir
as till now, there is no "secret agreement" on the drones issue with US, pakarmy or any govt, in deed.
but yes , this time the agreement was from the tounge, because no 1 wants to take the blame, after!
what i mean , is whole of MUSHARAF GOVT, till this PPP GOVT, all of them knows everything about it ?

"‘Pak can’t intercept high-altitude flights’
Afzal Khan writes from Islamabad
Saturday, June 14, 2008
THE TRIBUNE


Pakistan defence minister Ahmad Mukhtar has said Pakistan did not have the capability to anticipate or intercept high altitude flights of US drones that had been attacking Pakistani towns on Afghanistan border.

Referring to the latest US strike on a Pakistani checkpost that killed 11 troops in Mehmand tribal area, the minister said Pakistan has accepted the US explanation that it was an accidental attack. :angry:The coalition forces did not enter Pakistani territory but hit the check post from a pilotless drone, he told a TV channel. Mukhtar said Pakistan has lodged a strong protest on violation of its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

GEO Pakistan

Pak capable to stall drones’ strikes: Air chief
Updated at: 1437 PST, Tuesday, November 25, 2008

KARACHI: Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall, Tanvir Mahmood has said that Pakistan Air Force is fully capable to stop drones’ flights and missile strikes.

He said that it was now up to the government to decide whether it wanted to benefit from our capabilities or ready to fight a war with the aggressors.

Air Chief Marshall made these remarks, while speaking to newsmen during IDEAS 2008 defence equipments exhibition at the Expo Center in Karachi.


NOW this , is clear clash of ideas & intentions, some of peoples like "Tanvir Mahmood are not ready to accept, the idea of drones attacks on pakistan.
peopls like defence minister Ahmad Mukhtar ready to accept , & ready to put sand in the eyes of the pakistani nation

the US cia spooks like gen.durrani, kept preasurring this govt till this happenend to him !:enjoy:Spoke too soon on Kasab, Pak NSA Durrani sacked
CNN-IBN
Spoke too soon on Kasab, Pak NSA Durrani sacked

so this,was happening from begening , there are forces & thier SO CALLED "TEA SPOONS" who likes to kill , the poor pakistanis for unknown reasons (hidden US sponsored agenda), by the hands of US DRONES, & there are peoples who wanted to stop "US DRONES ATTACKS ON POOR PAKISTANIS", & who wanted to restore , the confidence, trust of the local patriotic pakistani,on the state of pakistan, the army of pakistan! (local patriotic pakistanis) who wanted to take out the "TALIBANS" from thier areas, surly doesnt deserve all this crap:agree:;):pakistan::sniper::usflag:
 
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Rather than there being a secret agreement, is the USA launching this drones from Pakistani soil, without any agreement at all? It might be something that it is doing unilaterally, and our weak govts just don't have the stomach to stand up to the Americans.
 
Did you correct SSGPA1's account of narcotics protection, knowing full well from the UNODC 2008 report that opium production in U.S. controlled areas of Afghanistan is approaching nil? Why not?

Afghanistan is US' and Allied responsibility.

What happens to the opium produced in NON US control areas??

On hand US and you claim that Taleban has no control in the US and on the other hand you claim that there are areas which are not in control of the US!
 
Thats what i was asking. What are they trying to achieve by this 'slip of tongue'? Do they want a official SOS call from GOP to step in officially and set up garrisons.

Slip of tongue is not intentional but Senator Dianne Feinstein is a liar and she will continue to lie to promote chaos in Pakistan.

Now her spokesman is saying that her comments were made based on news reports instead of information provided by an intelligence report.

Pakistan's FM has also denied this, please read the story below:

US drones not operating from Pak bases: Qureshi

This means that a US Senator who is also the head of Intel committee quotes media instead of intelligence report.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein should send her resignation! She is not worthy of that position.
 
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