Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[zebra7]

situation is change Russia already changed his policy India already sign ,many deals with USA, refuse Russian jets in favor of French money is not every thing but insult of being rejected far more. lets see what comes out.

Future prospets of FGFA, Submarine, MTA and Kamov helicopter is far more than any western deal. Leave aside every thing and stick to the topic. I found only one option strong, clean, and practical till now proposed by a pakistani op that is longer range NASR.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Even though Russians are willing to do business with Pakistan, the bigger customers always make the seller drop smaller deals in his favour. Just standard. Russians will remain open for business but other than the deals which have already been finalised between Pakistan and Russia, expect future deals already been bargained in India's favour.

See China investing huge sum in Pakistan and want to secure its assets here even there is no more romance between Pakistan and USA. So China + Pakistan = lots of benefits to be in this block Russia already sourcing new clients and Pakistan + China will give a good business to Russia. Purchasing from Russia you can say Indian need so they are not worried about that.

Future prospets of FGFA, Submarine, MTA and Kamov helicopter is far more than any western deal. Leave aside every thing and stick to the topic. I found only one option strong, clean, and practical till now proposed by a pakistani op that is longer range NASR.

Longer range why we need Nasr 2 when we have Abdali and Ghaznavi to fill the gap between Nasr and Shaheen 1

 

[vsdave2302]

On topic:

There is only one way to counter S400 overwhelm them. Exhaust their capacity. Even During recent war in Middle east deployment of forces. The theoretical capabilities (and from what NATO learnt from a Greek S-300 battery) make the west treat the S-400 with immense respect. The mere mention of the S-300 / 400 deploying in a certain country has altered the perception of strategic balances in the middle east.

Our version is the most potent version and it has the interceptor missile 40% faster than the missile of chinese version .

 

[Vyom]

During Gulf War 1991,Patriot Performed badly against simple Scuds, today Ballistic missile are sophisticated enough to dodge ABM's
S-400 is very capable system,it makes air space a nightmare for attackers but it's not impossible to tackle it.
The position which many Indian posters are claiming is not used by Indian Govt,These type of systems are used to defend strategic places and objectives,India if purchased will not deploy them in way many Poster's are discussing.

1. Its not the gulf war.
2. If Missiles have become "Sophisticated" In which way you intend to put ? Doesn't the same stand true for SAM and BMD systems ? And there is one thing of a such an undetectable missile being developed and Pakistan having it.
3. The Greek deployed S-300, NATO saw it there first hand. The same was deployed in Syria had the West kept off its attack directly on the regime. Speaks volumes about the system and respect it gets from NATO.

First of all it's not Operational in India.
2nd Shot-scoot tactics cant be applied on SAM batteries as they are applied on Ballistic and cruise missile TEL's.
All sensors are turned OFF for movement,which consumes time.
Pakistan is likely to Acquire Hi-Tech EW platforms from china to deal that threat.
But not impossible Uncle.

Yes, Its not operational in India. But discussion was about the possibilities. yes I know what shoot and scoot still i used the term "deploy-shoot-scoot-redeploy". and in the highly unlikely case that there can be an air borne threat to the most secure Anti Air weapons system in the world. S400 is mostly EW safe. If China has a countermeasure for this too, Great buy them. Buy more, it not impossible but if you get something that defeats this (which NATO can't) it will be very very interesting. (Infact both Russian and Western BMD are effective against each other, and very expensive). Either way countering this will cost you big $$. So go Right Ahead. Beat this, *before it gets deployed in India.

Not Impossible but not easy either.

 

[zebra7]

So till now from myside its

1. Faster platform for Awaac with EW countermeasures
2. Ground based RADAR with EW Jammers to weaken S-400 radar power
3. Long range Strandoff Weapons >100 KM
4. Dedicated ground attack DPSA with terrain hugging profile fighter plane.
5. Elongated Range NASR
6. Aesa based jammer and Aeriel Decoy for fighter planes
7. UAV to mimic fighter Plane
8 Covet operation to distroy the system

 

[vsdave2302]

TO counter Chinese S400, We must build low cost 400 Km range missile light in weight . they must be fired in salvo mode to gather. e. g 6 missiles from each MKI. simulteneously 20+ missiles should be fired at S 400 radar.

 

[Vyom]

Our version is the most potent version and it has the interceptor missile 40% faster than the missile of chinese version .

Also add the 95% success probability and a 1500 km detection range, we will be able to see all the birds frying over an airspace. Given that they will need MIRVs with a 100+ missiles with the hope of just one landing on target. A very expensive option. I hope Pakistan goes for it.

 

[vsdave2302]

What are your views on rocket powered Glide bomb having 400 KM range.

pak could try and go for the Chinese S-300, the HQ-9 ?

Had chines Hq had any stuff, Chinese would not have bought S400 from Russia. CHinese HQ series is a crap and even chine does not trust it.

 

[Vyom]

So till now from myside its

1. Faster platform for Awaac with EW countermeasures
2. Ground based RADAR with EW Jammers to weaken S-400 radar power
3. Long range Strandoff Weapons >100 KM
4. Dedicated ground attack DPSA with terrain hugging profile fighter plane.
5. Elongated Range NASR
6. Aesa based jammer and Aeriel Decoy for fighter planes
7. UAV to mimic fighter Plane
8 Covet operation to distroy the system

Other than the suicidal option 8. All will cost $s. 5. will not be a threat, anything ballistic flying above 5 km is fair game, reaction time is less than 10 seconds. If nukes didn't make them eat grass this will.

 

[zebra7]

Longer range why we need Nasr 2 when we have Abdali and Ghaznavi to fill the gap between Nasr and Shaheen 1

Reason
1. Cost
2. Salvo mode
3. Depressed Tragectory
4. Mobile Tel platform
5. Its not a strategic missile, to lower the nuclear clash

Why are you yourself going off topic and discussing nuclear attack options, when it should only be the tactical response

Other than the suicidal option 8. All will cost $s. 5. will not be a threat, anything ballistic flying above 5 km is fair game, reaction time is less than 10 seconds. If nukes didn't make them eat grass this will.

How do you predict 5billion when it should be around 2 billion which is economical possible. And stop discussing the strategic implification and stick to the topic. If you have doubts on the option I gave state directly rather going on discussing patriotic and gulf war.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Reason
1. Cost
2. Salvo mode
3. Depressed Tragectory
4. Mobile Tel platform
5. Its not a strategic missile, to lower the nuclear clash

Why are you yourself going off topic and discussing nuclear attack options, when it should only be the tactical response


How do you predict 5billion when it should be around 2 billion which is economical possible. And stop discussing the strategic implification and stick to the topic. If you have doubts on the option I gave state directly rather going on discussing patriotic and gulf war.

Donkey painted in strips can't be called Zebra, i reply to your post not discussing nuclear strike.

 

[Vyom]

Well physics says contrary. Velocity is a vector quantity. That is, it is directed. If we assume that the nuke is falling perpendicular to its original target and has a speed of Mach 20 then its velocity in y axsis is 0. Now to move the nuke around on its y axis you need to add thrust to it. Here is where you would say the base mounted side mounted thrusters will be used (which by the way are used RCS purposes). But this will have a side effect too. If the thrusters are fired only on one side (so as to give a Y component of thrust to re-target), the nose will flip the opposite side making the RV tumble, exposing the non sheilded areas and the harsh hypersonic atmosphere outside will, in scientific terms, shred the re-entry vehicle. The radioactive parts also won't survive the hypersonic fall in oxygen rich air.

Don't explain Physics here, according to his theory MaRV should have been cake walk for all. Not the case though.

 

[banvanaxl]

Well physics says contrary. Velocity is a vector quantity. That is, it is directed. If we assume that the nuke is falling perpendicular to its original target and has a speed of Mach 20 then its velocity in y axsis is 0. Now to move the nuke around on its y axis you need to add thrust to it. Here is where you would say the base mounted side mounted thrusters will be used (which by the way are used RCS purposes). But this will have a side effect too. If the thrusters are fired only on one side (so as to give a Y component of thrust to re-target), the nose will flip the opposite side making the RV tumble, exposing the non sheilded areas and the harsh hypersonic atmosphere outside will, in scientific terms, shred the re-entry vehicle. The radioactive parts also won't survive the hypersonic fall in oxygen rich air.

Something give this guy a positive rating already.

 

[$@rJen]

That's not a cruise or ballistic missile,which can apply shoot-scoot Tactics.

S-400 a complete Mobile platforms.. it can fire and move its platforms to a different location and setup a shop in minutes

 

[Sine Nomine]

Not Impossible but not easy either.

If not impossible,then everything is possible.