Poll for the Pakistani members

[AAtish]

Define our own people.
Who are our own people?
That is what you need to learn fast.

You are only thinking in terms of US war in Afghanistan, I am thinking way ahead of that.
It does not matter whether USA stays or leaves, if left unchecked the states within a state will only grow stronger.
The militancy itself is a huge problem, good militant or bad militant can only by confirmed once you ask them to lay down arms or sacrifice themselves for the sake of the state and not their personal agenda...however by that time it is usually too late.

Right now the only measure of what constitutes as pro Pakistani groups is their reluctance to take on Pakistan Army openly...otherwise be it ideological support or logistical support or even training etc. all the groups whether anti or pro Pakistan have had commonality and cooperation.
Recent murder of Col Imam and resulting inaction by all factions against Hakimullah should open your eyes to this fact!
So in reality, they are all different faces of a connected network.

Who has interest in the future of a stable, prosperous and moderate Pakistan?
Certainly not the types we are suggesting to disarm and take on.
Anyone who raises an illegal army in our country is not our own people.
Anyone who is implementing his own laws and running a parallel government over the poor Pakistani people under his hold, is indeed a rebel and needs to be taken out by the military if not possible to do so by the law enforcement agencies!

You can ask the people of Swat what they think of their own people who terrorized, tortured and butchered all the people who wanted to lead their lives free of the so called "shariat" of the terrorists.
You think we acted against our own people in Swat?
Then god help you.

If you think we did the right think in Swat, then do you know where the militants came from and overwhelmed Swat?
Which religious party or militant faction including all the so called good factions did you see publicly condemning the terrorism being perpetrated in Swat in the name of Islam?

By all accounts Sufi Muhammad was asked to condemn Fazlullah in the grand gathering in Swat, he was supposed to address the people and let them know that rebelling against their own country and running a parallel system is not right. He was supposed to condemn the violence and brutality undertaken by the TTP in Swat…however when he saw a throng of people gathered to hear him speak, the Mullah was tempted by the opportunity and instead bombarded the government in his speech.
No mention of the murder spree of the scum of the earth called Maulvi Fazlullah…no mention of the bizarre and brutal laws of the TTP. Clearly that was not something that mattered to Sufi Muhammad.
But what else is new?
This rascal Sufi Muhammad got thousands of Pakistanis killed in Afghanistan when he took a lashkar to aid the Taliban…only he and a few hundred of his henchmen managed to return.
These rascals shall save their hide every time and throw others into the pits of hell in order to serve their personal agenda.
Such is the character of “our people”.
These are not our people by a long shot, they shall never submit to a stable Pakistan.
Their interests are in no way convergent with what suits Pakistan in the long run.

So, now if our government asks a group to lay down arms and they do not...they are not our people are they?
To be our people they need to listen to us.
A person who raises arms against his country and actively participates in destroying it, forfeits the right of citizenship.

Let us test the pro Pakistan groups if there are any, let us ask them to disarm.
If they are indeed our people, they should do it...otherwise we should realize that they are no more in our control.

What is the proper response to an armed rebel who is unwilling to lay down arms and whose agenda is destruction of a state and its citizens by spreading militancy and using terror tactics.

The core of these militants is maximum 20,000 Strong, break their back and you shall diminish their influence permanently over our society in the long run.
That is what we should aim for in order to bring stability within our ranks.

Like i said, we need to ensure judiciary and law enforcement agencies are allowed to function here and play the role which only they can play.
Build cases on the traitors and terrorists and their support structure and prosecute them.
Slowly and surely we can eliminate this Fitna.

The solution which i proposed is not military centric, we shall use military only where the judiciary and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to operate.
Once the area is clear of a parallel state and relatively stable, we need to prosecute the perpetrators and bring them to justice.

Our war should be about bringing terrorists/supporters to justice in order to secure the future of Pakistan from the tafkiris whose goal is clearly to destroy Pakistan and rule over the chunks of land that they can hold militarily.
I am sure if there are any good factions who are our people, they would not object to these goals.

Man.. my respect for you is increasing post to post.. well said..

Along with this, the check and balance for the law enforcement agencies should also be crystal clear, they should not act out of the jurisdiction of law either.. If they make a mistake, they should be held responsible for it too, judged and punished.. Nobody will have to raise arms by themselves then..

Just an addition..

 

[All-Green]

You ignored my comment on CIA double agent contractors ????? I think in middle and lower chain of command of PA were very much angry on US Navy Seal Operations inside Pakistan , we also try to improve the level of morale of our nation and army if we really want get success in our war against terrorism .

Trust cannot be absolute on anybody and that goes for CIA as well, they shall serve their interests first and foremost.
Nobody should be allowed to come to Pakistan without due clearance and background checks.
Once we follow proper procedure, all of this can be avoided.
No need to raise hue and cry, what are our agencies and police here for?
If there was so much mega issue that national security was at stake then the relevant people should have come forward and declared their doubts in front of the parliament.
If ISI has such serious reservations then why do they not come forward and request such a security briefing session?
Even if such a briefing only serves as a symbolic gesture (due to parliamentarians dozing off), it would at least prove to us awam that something is indeed fishy.

How many people have protested/resigned if there is such a gross misconduct?
Rather the default approach has been to be covert in criticism and highlight concerns via the media in order to see what the popular perception is in the awam.
In it all our political parties and relevant organs of the state including the military are responsible, they are all playing each other out instead of coming out in the open with allegations based on facts.

The primary issue my brother is that we have become indecisive over how to tackle the problem at hand.
Foreign agencies are not powerful enough to operate on their own in Pakistan, they shall use the same monster against us which i want us to slay!
Already the actions against TTP proves that they are a well paid mercenary army, however they are clever enough to profess an ideology which appeals to the Islamic parties and hence these parties ignore all the atrocities carried out by TTP and condemn only the foreign hands.
The ideological commonality between most of the militants, terrorists and their supporters is what needs to be targeted.
This soft corner for militancy which is there thanks to our pathetic Political Mullahs proves that we need not just to eliminate the terrorists but also strike at the ideology which justifies the existence of armed thugs who can wear the garb of Islam and have their way.

The money can be foreign, the brain can be foreign...but the hand is TTP...and it needs to be cut off!
Our reluctance in this regards is not beneficial to Pakistan in any way.

We can never be friends with any militant group in the long run, by very virtue of being militants they are outlaws.
How can an outlaw ever support the writ of law?
How can someone who has such a twisted concept of Shariat which justifies violence and extremism, ever support a modern and developed Pakistan as envisioned by our forefathers?
They shall only tolerate Pakistan as long as we leave them some space to breathe in, otherwise they shall strike with all their venom.

Regarding OBL operation, i still think we knew about it in advance.
Our current narrative regarding OBL and denial of any prior knowledge is similar to what we said about drones initially.
Later it was found that drones were also being used from our base and now it is a routine.
We need to take ownership of what we actually believe in and declare it openly!

 

[AAtish]

Trust cannot be absolute on anybody and that goes for CIA as well, they shall serve their interests first and foremost.
Nobody should be allowed to come to Pakistan without due clearance and background checks.
Once we follow proper procedure, all of this can be avoided.
No need to raise hue and cry, what are our agencies and police here for?
If there was so much mega issue that national security was at stake then the relevant people should have come forward and declared their doubts in front of the parliament.
If ISI has such serious reservations then why do they not come forward and request such a security briefing session?
Even if such a briefing only serves as a symbolic gesture (due to parliamentarians dozing off), it would at least prove to us awam that something is indeed fishy.

How many people have protested/resigned if there is such a gross misconduct?
Rather the default approach has been to be covert in criticism and highlight concerns via the media in order to see what the popular perception is in the awam.
In it all our political parties and relevant organs of the state including the military are responsible, they are all playing each other out instead of coming out in the open with allegations based on facts.

The primary issue my brother is that we have become indecisive over how to tackle the problem at hand.
Foreign agencies are not powerful enough to operate on their own in Pakistan, they shall use the same monster against us which i want us to slay!
Already the actions against TTP proves that they are a well paid mercenary army, however they are clever enough to profess an ideology which appeals to the Islamic parties and hence these parties ignore all the atrocities carried out by TTP and condemn only the foreign hands.
The ideological commonality between most of the militants, terrorists and their supporters is what needs to be targeted.
This soft corner for militancy which is there thanks to our pathetic Political Mullahs proves that we need not just to eliminate the terrorists but also strike at the ideology which justifies the existence of armed thugs who can wear the garb of Islam and have their way.

The money can be foreign, the brain can be foreign...but the hand is TTP...and it needs to be cut off!
Our reluctance in this regards is not beneficial to Pakistan in any way.

We can never be friends with any militant group in the long run, by very virtue of being militants they are outlaws.
How can an outlaw ever support the writ of law?
How can someone who has such a twisted concept of Shariat which justifies violence and extremism, ever support a modern and developed Pakistan as envisioned by our forefathers?
They shall only tolerate Pakistan as long as we leave them some space to breathe in, otherwise they shall strike with all their venom.

Regarding OBL operation, i still think we knew about it in advance.
Our current narrative regarding OBL and denial of any prior knowledge is similar to what we said about drones initially.
Later it was found that drones were also being used from our base and now it is a routine.
We need to take ownership of what we actually believe in and declare it openly!

I accept that we knew about this operation but, i highly doubt we were aware that they are going to claim "killing OBL" after this operation.. this doesn't make sense until PA and ISI is considered traitors.. which is not possible..

 

[All-Green]

I accept that we knew about this operation but, i highly doubt we were aware that they are going to claim "killing OBL" after this operation.. this doesn't make sense until PA and ISI is considered traitors.. which is not possible..

I am only claiming that we knew about the operation, nothing less and nothing more.

I also do not think that post OBL issue was handled as per some mutually agreed line of action.
Does not make sense for us to paint ourselves in such a negative light.

However the question is that if this was OBL in Abbottabad and we knew about him, why did we let USA come and kill him?
We should have captured him ourselves.
What fear prompted us to take this approach?
The time to please any group out of fear is over, let us do what we must only for our country.

 

[waraich66]

I am only claiming that we knew about the operation, nothing less and nothing more.

I also do not think that post OBL issue was handled as per some mutually agreed line of action.
Does not make sense for us to paint ourselves in such a negative light.

However the question is that if this was OBL in Abbottabad and we knew about him, why did we let USA come and kill him?
We should have captured him ourselves.
What fear prompted us to take this approach?
The time to please any group out of fear is over, let us do what we must only for our country.

Western media is now blaming Pakistan , now how can Pakistan come out of this situation ? Second question is safety of nuke facilities ?

 

[AAtish]

Western media is now blaming Pakistan , now how can Pakistan come out of this situation ? Second question is safety of nuke facilities ?

It is very easy,

First Step: As the info provided by US is still questionable about OBL, use "agents" to question the authenticity of claims on different International media (which i believe has already started), Assign a commission to probe how OBL managed to live in Abbottabad for so many years (the result of finding should question him being there), use friendly states to pressurize US for clarification of events (which i highly doubt US would be able to).. thus, make the whole US claim questionable..

2nd Step: Clear out CIA agents network from Pakistan (terrorist attacks?)

3rd Step: Increase friendly relations with rival powers, China is already our greatest ally (Work on Russia has started)

4th Step: Clear relations with neighbors (Afghanistan, India, Iran) to stay in safe environment.. (though India still is questionable due to obvious reasons)

5th Step: Question integrity of WoT and its Goals, question involvement of NATO forces with AQ in Libya and Syria.. (helping terrorism?)

There are so many ways to get out of this deadlock, all what is required is the will to do it..

Edit: Sorry forgot your second question..

Nuclear installations should be a no go area for anyone under any circumstance.. let it be US, UN or any other.. If the security of Nukes come into question, no need to hold back, let the ball roll.. US and NATO forces know it, thats the only reason they are pushing Pakistan bit-by-bit..

 

[Pioneerfirst]

TAKE ACTION AGAINST EVERY MILITANT GROUP, NO MATTER THEY ARE AGAINST PAKISTAN OR NOT.

 

[TOPGUN]

Attack and bomb the sh_t of afghan taliban and or anyone that comes in between .... enough is enough Pakistan needs to clean up the trash and come back on its feet for a safer better future for our children.

 

[Imran Khan]

TAKE ACTION AGAINST EVERY MILITANT GROUP, NO MATTER THEY ARE AGAINST PAKISTAN OR NOT.

and we have to live here dear

 

[AAtish]

TAKE ACTION AGAINST EVERY MILITANT GROUP, NO MATTER THEY ARE AGAINST PAKISTAN OR NOT.

Please understand what militancy means, here is the definition for you..

Militancy: Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause

So when you use CAPS to enforce your thought LOUDLY, you are acting as a militant by definition.. Please rephrase you demand

 

[mymeaningislion]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/6/7ksatFd8gkY[/video]

 

[waraich66]

US may be preparing plan or already prepared for surgical strikes inside Pakistan with next few months . CIA agents/contractors already working on this project from last 5 years .

What will be response of Nation and Army ?

Note: Politicians are already with US .

 

[AAtish]

US may be preparing plan or already prepared for surgical strikes inside Pakistan with next few months . CIA agents/contractors already working on this project from last 5 years .

What will be response of Nation and Army ?

Note: Politicians are already with US .

Another such surgical operation will result in democracy winding itself up, another Martial Law with the consent and support of Pakistani people, and looking at how Pasha of ISI responded to CIA, it would result in ultimately either US quiting Pakistan for good or an active war.. throwing Pakistan couple of decades back and breaking USA in 50 independent states (economic crises, already few states are looking to have their own currency).. There is a huge probability of it converting into WW3.. Hence, the prophecy of 2012 fulfilled..

I Hope that doesn't happen though.. i Hope the world leaders open their eyes and use their brains.. I think they would, after all, they are smarter then us.. (pun intended)..

 

[W.11]

I don't think it would be wise to attack the Haqqani network. I do think for the long term benefit of Pakistan they should be pressured to stop carrying out any attacks in Afghanistan(that's if they do?) also Pakistan should have a general policy for disarmament of the whole of FATA.

you cant simply disarm the whole fata, tell you what, our founder quaid e azam agreed to leave these people alone IF they became pakistanis

but tell you what the people of fata ill be thinking of getting independence after all the mess we are giving to them, these fata people never once harmed pakistan but we are hell bent on killing them, this must be point of concern for now

 

[waraich66]

Another such surgical operation will result in democracy winding itself up, another Martial Law with the consent and support of Pakistani people, and looking at how Pasha of ISI responded to CIA, it would result in ultimately either US quiting Pakistan for good or an active war.. throwing Pakistan couple of decades back and breaking USA in 50 independent states (economic crises, already few states are looking to have their own currency).. There is a huge probability of it converting into WW3.. Hence, the prophecy of 2012 fulfilled..

I Hope that doesn't happen though.. i Hope the world leaders open their eyes and use their brains.. I think they would, after all, they are smarter then us.. (pun intended)..

Western media declared Pakistan hostile country ?
US losing war in Afghanistan could attack as they did in Vietnam.

If war imposed on Pakistan , what shall be WAR Strategy

1. Pakistan need to shift nukes to Iran and China
2. Pakistan can block Hurmaz ( Major Oil supply route of World)
3. India can also attack?
4. 2 Million armed tribes will be part of Pakistan.