Politicisation of Indian military

[Joe Shearer]

About the military, they're always loyal to the elected reps, and that happens to be the BJP at this time. Just like the US military is "pro" Biden, just like any other military.

For your information, Hail to the Chief is for the commander-in-chief, and the US military oath is to the constitution of the United States, as is the politically elected representatives' oath on taking office in India. The loyalty of the Indian Armed Forces is not to the BJP, or any other political or religious organisation.

Furthermore, the President of India is the Commander-in-Chief, and the Service Chiefs, on a day to day basis, reported to the Minister for Defence.

Pardon my French, but your ideas are completely fucked up. You richly deserve a negative rating.

 

[Sharma Ji]

For your information, Hail to the Chief is for the commander-in-chief, and the US military oath is to the constitution of the United States, as is the politically elected representatives' oath on taking office in India.

With due respect, Sir. I'm wise to your technical semantic lingual grammatical googlys.

The loyalty of the Indian Armed Forces is not to the BJP, or any other political or religious organisation.

I never insinuated otherwise.

Furthermore, the President of India is the Commander-in-Chief, and the Service Chiefs, on a day to day basis, reported to the Minister for Defence.

Who are we kidding ? It is largely a ceremonial post, is what it is.

Pardon my French, but your ideas are completely fucked up. You richly deserve a negative rating.

Je kya baat hui ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

With due respect, Sir. I'm wise to your technical semantic lingual grammatical googlys.


I never insinuated otherwise.


Who are we kidding ? It is largely a ceremonial post, is what it is.


Je kya baat hui ?

Oh never mind. Go ahead as you please.

 

[SQ8]

I hear you, and I will not contradict you, except to say that I have painful memories of a worse degradation of values by your Kakul graduates than this clown displayed.

Oh I know - the proverbial usage of the tongue in degrading ways was the hallmark of many subordinates during a dictator’s rule(and otherwise too)
But, the whole facade that existed for me of the Indian military being politically non-aligned has been shattered as such

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This @Joe Shearer is what I refer to as the degradation of values no kakul graduate could wet dream of.

This is the 3rd world curse. No matter how much you build one institution, if the general ideology of the country isn't forward looking, then you open the door to opportunists, scam artists, and thieves. We know from experience in Pakistan. No surprise the Indian military is at risk of it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

With due respect, Sir. I'm wise to your technical semantic lingual grammatical googlys.


I never insinuated otherwise.


Who are we kidding ? It is largely a ceremonial post, is what it is.


Je kya baat hui ?

Oh never mind. Go ahead as you please.

Oh I know - the proverbial usage of the tongue in degrading ways was the hallmark of many subordinates during a dictator’s rule(and otherwise too)
But, the whole facade that existed for me of the Indian military being politically non-aligned has been shattered as such

That's so close to the bone!

I never thought to see this in my lifetime.

 

[Rank]

in third world shit hole aka India ka jo haal hogaya hey under Modi ye looog tu mujhe lagta hey shit kartay b Bharat mata ki jaye... THUS THUS THUS ... pani chalatay type woh b agar huwa tu Modi G ki jayeeeeeeeeee ...

 

[Wood]

haha. Modi didn't get much response.
This Airforce guy is done for. He made a complete fool of himself.
edit- the guy is not from the airforce it seems.

OMG! What a relief!

 

[KedarT]

3. About "Bharat Mata ki jai" slogan @-blitzkrieg- is right that Indian Muslims are not fine with that because of the connotations of Hindutvadi majoritarian supremacy over India and concept of idolatry being promoted through it.

We have had this discussion before and I clearly translated its meaning to you. Please avoid bringing religion selectively into every small thing. Bharat Mata ki Jai is a slogan which is also used by the Indian Army. And as mentioned before in our earlier debate, there is no idolatry in it.

Even non-Muslim progressives wont' be comfortable with that slogan

Who? As far as I know, it's only the Muslims who are objecting to this.

 

[jamahir]

We have had this discussion before and I clearly translated its meaning to you. Please avoid bringing religion selectively into every small thing. Bharat Mata ki Jai is a slogan which is also used by the Indian Army. And as mentioned before in our earlier debate, there is no idolatry in it.

Well, since it is you who is mention the Indian army I will say that unfortunately the Indian army doesn't think about abolishing that straight-out religious slogan given that it has also not abolished religion and tribalism based units ( Sikh regiment, Dogra regiment, Maratha regiment etc ). Let us be more thoughtful, cat-like about this. How do you think this all sounds to me a Communist who tries to look empathetically at others' ideas but finds unnecessary religious elements rammed into every aspect of society ?

Who? As far as I know, it's only the Muslims who are objecting to this.

You can ask the Communists if they would prefer "Bharat Mata ki jai" or something sensible as "Jai Hind", or actually given the pan-human nature of Communist ideals, just a simple "Laal salaam".

And as song for the society why not a lyrical expansion of "Laal salaam" or the localized, modernized and bettered version of The Internationale because those two would be better by a light-year than the tribalist, narrow, non-secular, anti-inclusive and non-sensible "Jana gana mana" and "Vande mataram"?

 

[peagle]

I hear you, but I don't agree. I have no desire to expand on this theme, because of my policy of never commenting on Pakistani politics, or Pakistani social norms; what I am here to discuss is the military actions that have taken place, specifically between Pakistan and India, but in general in the world at large. I reserve the right, as a loyal and committed Indian citizen, to criticise our own Indian politics, Indian society and the state of the Indian military.

So while what you have suggested is debatable, I choose not to debate it; what you have done, you have done. My remark was spontaneous and caused by the pain that the memory retains, a pain that no amount of rationalisation can remove.

That is due to a wholly disproportionate representation of those who are predisposed to dismiss these fears.


To me, personally, and without sitting in judgement on the opinions of others, this is a laboured explanation beyond what I have stated. I am not able to extend the reasoning in the manner that it has been extended, but perfectly agree to that being a valid opinion of somebody else.


Fair enough, but before dropping the subject, it seems fair to point out also that while you and other external observers are going by the evidence that you have, it is distorted evidence, and far from balanced, whereas within the situation as I am, it is at the same time more distressing and less doomed to a dismal end than might seem to an external inspection.

First of all, please allow me to apologise for late response, I was taken over by things I wish were less simple, and the world of pdf was put on the backburner.

To be frank, I'm a little surprised, but more puzzled by your response. I'm not entirely sure why, largely because I think I know more of the person I'm in communication with, then other Toms Dicks and Harrys I come across on PDF.

Please allow me few days, and I hope I can provide something to chew on.

 

[Joe Shearer]

First of all, please allow me to apologise for late response, I was taken over by things I wish were less simple, and the world of pdf was put on the backburner.

To be frank, I'm a little surprised, but more puzzled by your response. I'm not entirely sure why, largely because I think I know more of the person I'm in communication with, then other Toms Dicks and Harrys I come across on PDF.

Please allow me few days, and I hope I can provide something to chew on.

Do take your time; it is always a pleasure to hear your views. I know your views about India and Indians, and it honestly does not colour my responses to your very well-reasoned posts, because I have had a different view of India (until recently; it is rather bruised and battered at the moment) and am content to let others think as they wish. That will not stop me from engaging in rational conversation.