Point 5353 in Pakistan's control Drass sector

[KS]

where the worls so-called largest democracy were mosques are burned and destroyed to clear space for Temples

For your kind information...the mosque itself was built on top of a destroyed temple in one of the holiest places in Hinduism.

 

[Jet Li]

I dont see any reason in me getting banned..I just tried to correct him from his false notions.

You should first focus on trying to correct yourself and your delusional minset. Do not worry about me.

This is the last time I am going to respond to you.

 

[KS]

You should first focus on trying to correct yourself and your delusional minset. Do not worry about me.

This is the last time I am going to respond to you.

Cos u dont have anything worthy to say to me after getting owned..no go to some other thread and post some thing..ur time is over in this thread now.

 

[roach]

feedom of speech... ha!

in a world where the most developed countries ban scarf because it can cause relegious discrimination,
in a world where getting visa gets difficult if your name cintaines the name "Muhammad"
where the worls so-called largest democracy were mosques are burned and destroyed to clear space for Temples
where thousand of people are killed in days just because they beleived in one God and his Prophet Muhammad,
in the world where taking againt holucast is a taboo and "Draw Muhammad Day" is a symbol of liberation and independane...

it is realy intresting to listen these words, the words of,
"freedom of speech"

Um, a clarification. I thought Jet Li was Chinese, so I was taking a pot shot at the Chinese press....but then I figured out he wasn't, so.....

In all fairness, I hold the Pakistani press in the highest regard. Those guys stood up to Musharraf and Co, all Pakistan should be proud of them.

All the other stuff.........I know about the Babri Masjid demolition, but the other stuff is kinda a rant. The Indian press is harshest with it's own populace, if you haven't noticed. Those guys are sharks, even the cops are terrified of them.

 

[Arsalan]

For your kind information...the mosque itself was built on top of a destroyed temple in one of the holiest places in Hinduism.

but it was a mosque, a holy place. it was not build by destroying a temple do some basic research. . . .

i simply cannot understand that when the Taliban were destroying Budhist sculptures in Afghanistan the whole world was crying, what made them sit silent when indian soldiers gun doen people in mosques, when the us bombs hit and desroy the Holy Shrines in Iraq, when garbage and dead animial/pigs are thrwon in mosques..

moreover, you commented only one one point,,,,
so do you tend to agree with rest.

this is all a rubbish thread now. hats off to indian friends, they have successfully derailed this one...

 

[ice_man]

Ok since u seem to be intent on connecting Both the PM of INdia and President of Pakistan together going to Tashkent for signing a third party administered ceasefire to ur PM going to US and getting an unilateral ceasefire forced upon him by the weirdest of logics ..let me help u.

Read this link..This is from ur govt website.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs



Get the difference between " both the parties getting invited and one party unilaterlaly going and getting an unwilling ceasefire imposed upon him"




I dont see any reason in me getting banned..I just tried to correct him from his false notions.

ohhh boy here we go! so you are telling me Ayub khan was invited by the soviet president without pressure from the indians??? why on earth would we go to Tashkant why didn't the USA president(our closest ally back then) invite us and india?

reason being india went crying to the soviets telling them how pakistan had been a bad boy!

and don't forget after operation Gibraltar being succesful india crossed the international border hence putting a hold to operations by PA in kashmir making the whole operation gibraltor a flop! and leading to a war in 1965!

now in 1999 PA occupies Kargil (just like progress was being made in operation gibraltar) and india threatens to cross the international border and also blockade our ports indian hoax was taken serious by nawaz who went to USA and upon finidng out USA's stand on the issue ordered unilateral withdrawal of Pakistan from kargil!

 

[KS]

ohhh boy here we go! so you are telling me Ayub khan was invited by the soviet president without pressure from the indians??? why on earth would we go to Tashkant why didn't the USA president(our closest ally back then) invite us and india?
reason being india went crying to the soviets telling them how pakistan had been a bad boy!

Huh watever u believe...wat life threatening threat did India face from Pakistan that we went crying to USSR..?

Remember It was us who crossed the IB not u...So ur saying although we crushed ur border defences and crossed IB,came onto the outskirts of Lahore.we were facing defeat..:

Weird logic.

and don't forget after operation Gibraltar being succesful india crossed the international border hence putting a hold to operations by PA in kashmir making the whole operation gibraltor a flop! and leading to a war in 1965!

I stopped reading it after the bold part.From start to finish it was nothing other than an unqualified blunder and defeat.
Go talk to ur army men before coming to me.

1965 was at best a strategic stalemate with India ending up with a slight upper hand.
(Can provide the links if u want)

now in 1999 PA occupies Kargil (just like progress was being made in operation gibraltar) and india threatens to cross the international border and also blockade our ports indian hoax was taken serious by nawaz who went to USA and upon finidng out USA's stand on the issue ordered unilateral withdrawal of Pakistan from kargil!

Dont u notice the contradictions in ur own post..?
U told that u were doing well in Kargil,but wen India threatened to cross the border,close ur ports u got frightened and withdrew,the bottom line being in ur mind u guys knew that India had the capability to do so and u didnt have the capability to prevent it .

Now tell me who is the powerful country here..one who threatened sucessfully or one who got frightened and withdrew knowing that it will cause him defeat.

 

[KS]

but it was a mosque, a holy place. it was not build by destroying a temple do some basic research. . . .

Please u do some reseach first.I know more abt my religion than u can even imagine.
Ayodhya was the birth place of Lord Ram and there was a temple there before that bigot Babur destroyed it and built a mosque celebrating his victory.

ASI have confirmed it although there is no need to prove to anyone regarding that.

Ayodhya was,is and will be one of the most sacred places of hinduism.

BTW why crying for one destroyed mosque wen thousands of temples were destroyed during the 650 year old Muslim rule in India.?

moreover, you commented only one one point,,,,
so do you tend to agree with rest.

Agree or not..it has nothing to do with my country..I dont comment on issues not concerning my country.

this is all a rubbish thread now. hats off to indian friends, they have successfully derailed this one...

Please go to the first page and read post #10 and 19 respectively by an Indian and a Pakistani.

They explain it all..Other than that ppl from both sides were equally responsible for this de-railement.

 

[ice_man]

Huh watever u believe...wat life threatening threat did India face from Pakistan that we went crying to USSR..?

Remember It was us who crossed the IB not u...So ur saying although we crushed ur border defences and crossed IB,came onto the outskirts of Lahore.we were facing defeat..:

Weird logic.



I stopped reading it after the bold part.From start to finish it was nothing other than an unqualified blunder and defeat.
Go talk to ur army men before coming to me.





Dont u notice the contradictions in ur own post..?
U told that u were doing well in Kargil,but wen India threatened to cross the border,close ur ports u chickened out and withdrew,the bottom line being in ur mind u guys knew that India had the capability to do so and u didnt have the capability to prevent it .

Now tell me who is the powerful country here..one who threatened sucessfully or one who chickened out and withdrew knowing that it will cause him defeat.

karthic how old are you??

chicken not chicken kfc chicken or nandos chicken??? what are you on about! PLEASE DEBATE LIKE A GROWN UP MAN THIS IS NOT BR neither is it youtube video to make comments that make you lose credibility!

yes you crossed the border in 65 and then everything from their failed! you never got to Lahore as planned pakistan navy bombed dwarka PAF took out PATHANKOT and Army well let's not even get talking about PA achievements in Rjahistan and Chamb! hence yes when you saw that india was NOT winning and not living upto its claims of easy crushing defeat of pakistan india went to USSR!


as for india crossing the border in 1999 we NEVER doubted india could cross the border BUT the only problem we had was if india does we would have no choice but go to a full scale war!! when both nations are NUCLEAR CAPABLE it is not such a good thing to even consider a full scale war COMPREHEND boy??

 

[KS]

karthic how old are you??

chicken not chicken kfc chicken or nandos chicken??? what are you on about! PLEASE DEBATE LIKE A GROWN UP MAN THIS IS NOT BR neither is it youtube video to make comments that make you lose credibility!

If both sides can follow that it woul;d be great ..anyway will edit that words.

yes you crossed the border in 65 and then everything from their failed! you never got to Lahore as planned pakistan navy bombed dwarka PAF took out PATHANKOT and Army well let's not even get talking about PA achievements in Rjahistan and Chamb! hence yes when you saw that india was NOT winning and not living upto its claims of easy crushing defeat of pakistan india went to USSR!

Dude edited my last post.1965 was a strategic stalemate at best with India getting the upper hand for the simple reason we had more of ur land that wat u had of ours and ur primary objective of the war (Op.Gibralter) got boomeranged.

tel me where i claimed it was a crushing defeat for Pakistan.

As i said i could provide numerous links (from neutral sources) authenticating it was indeed a stalemate with a slight Indian upper hand.

as for india crossing the border in 1999 we NEVER doubted india could cross the border BUT the only problem we had was if india does we would have no choice but go to a full scale war!! when both nations are NUCLEAR CAPABLE it is not such a good thing to even consider a full scale war COMPREHEND boy??

aaahaa..as I suspected it all comes down to nuke weapons as the last resort to deflect.
Let me answer it.
Three points;

1)U tested ur nukes on May 1998 IIRC and I dont know any nation that could have weaponised such a new and advanced technology in such a short time frame (1 year) if ur claim as to developing them indigenoulsy is to be believed.SO in Kargil war there was no threat of nuke weapons.

2)Even if u had weaponised them,the payload would have bben in the sub-kiloton category.

3)Thirdly and most importantly how did u plan to deliver them..? U had no Shaheen then,no Blk 52 s,ur other fighters were also not nuke capable and even ur Ghauri waqs test launched for the first time only in 1998.

So puhleez i have comprehended the situation far far better than u can ever imagine to.

 

[ice_man]

If both sides can follow that it woul;d be great ..anyway will edit that words.





Dude edited my last post.1965 was a strategic stalemate at best with India getting the upper hand for the simple reason we had more of ur land that wat u had of ours and ur primary objective of the war (Op.Gibralter) got boomeranged.

tel me where i claimed it was a crushing defeat for Pakistan.

As i said i could provide numerous links (from neutral sources) authenticating it was indeed a stalemate with a slight Indian upper hand.




aaahaa..as I suspected it all comes down to nuke weapons as the last resort to deflect.
Let me answer it.
Three points;

1)U tested ur nukes on May 1998 IIRC and I dont know any nation that could have weaponised such a new and advanced technology in such a short time frame (1 year) if ur claim as to developing them indigenoulsy is to be believed.SO in Kargil war there was no threat of nuke weapons.

2)Even if u had weaponised them,the payload would have bben in the sub-kiloton category.

3)Thirdly how did u plan to deliver them..? U had no Shaheen then,no Blk 52 s,ur other fighters were also not nuke capable.

So puhleez i have comprehended the situation far far better than u can ever imagine to.

cool you ruled out nuclear war but WAR nonetheless could have taken place! something i am sure we (our civilan political leadership) nor you wanted! so this brings me BACK to my point of the fact that NAWAZ never wanted to go to a full scale war with india hence he rushed off to the USA! & ordered a unilateral withdrawal!

our kargil withdrawal was due to the fact we didn't want to escalate the war to an all out war airforce & navy were never prepared for the war the army had kept it in the dark! hence kargil was never a defeat but a withdrawal!

 

[KS]

i am sure we (our civilan political leadership) nor you wanted!

We didn want for reasons entirely different from urs and definitely not because
of unpreparedness.
WE didn want to because we wanted to make u guys the aggressors in front of the world instead of giving u chance to cry again that we violated the IB and hence u were victims...And we did it.

our kargil withdrawal was due to the fact we didn't want to escalate the war to an all out war airforce & navy were never prepared for the war the army had kept it in the dark! hence kargil was never a defeat but a withdrawal!

Ah man...ur post itself indicated that u know that if u had not withdrawn u would have been defeated.

I ll give a similar analogy to wat ur saying:

Ur nine wickets down in a cricket match with another 10 overs to go and 190 runs to win.
U then give walk-over and proceed to ur dressing room and then finally refuse to agree that u lost the match just for the simple reason ur 10 th wicket was not taken.

p.s.: Nawaz was a pragmatic man who could see that.

Cheers.

 

[ice_man]

We didn want for reasons entirely different from urs and definitely not because
of unpreparedness.
WE didn want to because we wanted to make u guys the aggressors in front of the world instead of giving u chance to cry again that we violated the IB and hence u were victims...And we did it.



Ah man...ur post itself indicated that u know that if u had not withdrawn u would have been defeated.

I ll give a similar analogy to wat ur saying:

Ur nine wickets down in a cricket match with another 10 overs to go and 190 runs to win.
U then give walk-over and proceed to ur dressing room and then finally refuse to agree that u lost the match just for the simple reason ur 10 th wicket was not taken.

p.s.: Nawaz was a pragmatic man who could see that.

Cheers.

actually NO my post suggested that india threatened attacking across the international border inorder to undermine pakistani gains in Kargil! and to let off steam from the pressure cooker situation in kargil! india had employed this tactic successfully in 1965! due to which pakistan couldn't concentrate on getting to jammu & was stuck at akhnur because india had crossed the international border in 65

 

[KS]

actually NO my post suggested that india threatened attacking across the international border inorder to undermine pakistani gains in Kargil! and to let off steam from the pressure cooker situation in kargil! india had employed this tactic successfully in 1965!

So ur Generals failed to learn their lessons from 1965 that India only threatens and rarely walks the talk ..isnt it..?So in my thinking that is also a failure.

due to which pakistan couldn't concentrate on getting to jammu & was stuck at akhnur because india had crossed the international border in 65

And mr.ice_man..those are called "military strategies"

Wars are not football matches to be played inside a rectanglular field and offsides are given wen there is no defender in front of u.

Wars are U do ur best ...I ll do my best and the last man standing wins.

So in that count too Pakistan failed.

 

[Jet Li]

Ice Man why are you arguing with this delusional indian? Don't drop down to his level. I don't know why he decided to drop out of conventional school in india and joined the propaganda school.