PM Kakar says Afghan Taliban "illegitimate," ; Pakistan may directly target TTP & its 'supporters' on Afghan soil - SAI

[lastofthepatriots]

Only reason you’re free is because the Pasthuns assisted your a*s. The Poonjabis didn’t give af. “Azad” Kashmiri is even worse. Hope you have the same energy for the pajeets, you know the people that are actually raping and killing your people Mr Butt SB

Wash your dirty mouth with soap before you take the name of Punjabis.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

As if the Durand line is legitimate. Neither is the “LOC.”

Idk if it’s right to compare the Durand Line with the LoC.

While the LoC is a border that’s highly contested, the Durand Line agreement was already set in place when the Afghan king sold the land. Kashmir faced an insurgency because of India’s oppressive policies which was a continuation of the Dogras .

Although Pakistan did face a small Pashtunistan movement that later died down, there was no trouble or insurgency until around 50-60 years later in FATA becsuse of the Army’s policies.

The insurgency in Waziristan is solely based on the Army’s policies after 9/11 as the cultures of Pakistan’s West are heavily relied on revenge. This can be the same about Balochistan too. That’s why Imran Khan said that the solution is a political one not a military one.

If the insurgency in Waziristan is because of Durand line then we would be seeing massive uprising about joining Afghanistan something that doesn’t happen. However we see the same in Kashmir where people get buried in Pakistani flags.

I don’t really believe in deporting anyone on ethnicity or race because this kind of rhetoric just inflames things and details the thread.

I do think that Pakistan doing any kind of kinetic action with an abysmal economy and no support on the narrative (FFS ISPR TWITTER ACCOUNT HAS BEEN INACTIVE ) will be a disaster for Pakistan.

Pakistan should approach Afghanistan with a carrot and stick approach. We simply don’t have the resources for a long sustained war. The only advantage Afghanistan has over Pakistan is a competent leadership that is cutthroat and not full of babbus.

 

[Goritoes]

Bruh you're from India, we were here before 1947.

Confused Panagheer

Of course, that's is why Urdu speaking community is by far most civilized educated community, the Adaab of my community exceed yours by a long shot, and as for Panagher or refugee or immigrant, rich coming from you who living in USA or came to USA or your parents came to US as Panagheer lol Plus at least I relate to Prophet Muhammad Pbuh who also once have to immigrate to Medina, and today our Islamic calendar is marked by " Hijri ", I can educate you on that what it means or significant of that.
People who are born and lived in Pakistan gave us what ? suicide bombings, beheadings and brutalizing of dead bodies, mutilations', no polio vaccines, etc What a Ideal sons of soil we got lol Thank God I wasn't born into a family of one of those Sons of Soil lol

You have more in common with Hindustanis. Tell your fam to go back there.

I have more common with any civilized people, yes of course I do while the other side is slaughtering whole villages over a stolen Goat lol

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Of course, that's is why Urdu speaking community is by far most civilized educated community, the Adaab of my community exceed yours by a long shot, and as for Panagher or refugee or immigrant, rich coming from you who living in USA or came to USA or your parents came to US as Panagheer lol Plus at least I relate to Prophet Muhammad Pbuh who also once have to immigrate to Medina, and today our Islamic calendar is marked by " Hijri ", I can educate you on that what it means or significant of that.
People who are born and lived in Pakistan gave us what ? suicide bombings, beheadings and brutalizing of dead bodies, mutilations', no polio vaccines, etc What a Ideal sons of soil we got lol Thank God I wasn't born into a family of one of those Sons of Soil lol


I have more common with any civilized people, yes of course I do while the other side is slaughtering whole villages over a stolen Goat lol

Panagheer

 

[Goritoes]

Panagheer

Khud kuss bambaar

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Khud kuss bambaar

Paankhor

 

[Sayfullah]

Don't start this debate bro, he is a Punjabi himself but suffers from a severe Pajeet level inferiority complex about it.

Just skip otherwise thread will go to shit. May Allah heal him.

Self hating Panjabis are the worst.
Anyone who remotely knows anything about the region knows Panjabis have always been producing one of the most mujahids. The only difference is leaders of such groups like Hafiz Saaed would accept hardship and being put under house arrest instead of spreading anarchy in society and destabilizing the country. Cuz they aren’t selfish or arrogant people.
Anyways, I won’t continue with this debate with him for the sake of the thread.

 

[Goritoes]

Paankhor

You missed the Gutka, lol still better than blowing yourself in a Masjid or Market or School... At least Paan and Gutka only hurts your own self, but people from your kind make sure to blow people off for their ethnic superiority, what a sad affairs you have my sympathy that you are born in that culture.

 

[Sayfullah]

Tbh I'm not completely familiar with the 90s Taliban or what actually went down during that time frame but if that's the time frame during Mullah Omar's time then you are still somewhat wrong.

Mullah Omar never accepted the border either and was explicitly against it, the only reason terrorism in that region temporarily died down was because fighters were rerouted to control other unstable areas but the issue was still ongoing.

Mullah Omar was in support of global Jihad and support of Muslims everywhere. He was consistent with his view and didn’t care if it was Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran or any other neighbour of his. During Mullah Omar’s time many Kashmiris and Pakistanis got training in Afghanistan and he trained them and offered to send fighters to Kashmir and did send some. Even when TTP formed and started attacking Pakistan he told them to stop and join him in fighting NATO invasion instead. During Pakistans nuclear tests as well he openly announced he would launch war on india or any other country who attacks Pakistan.
This is what he said:

Even if Mullah Omar didn’t accept the Durand line as border, he was consistent in his view and supported mujahideen fighting communists in Tajikistan and was harsh on all of his neighbouring countries and even made threats to Iran and supported Baloch in Iran. Compared to them he probably was the softest on Pakistan out of all his neighbours and instead helped Pakistan against india.
That makes logically sense as well since Pakistan is Afghanistan most Islamic Sunni neighbour. Unlike some of current Taliban and their fanboys who ignore their communist atheist neighbours outright cracking down on Islam but attacking Pakistan for not being Islamic enough.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Tbh I'm not completely familiar with the 90s Taliban or what actually went down during that time frame but if that's the time frame during Mullah Omar's time then you are still somewhat wrong.

Mullah Omar never accepted the border either and was explicitly against it, the only reason terrorism in that region temporarily died down was because fighters were rerouted to control other unstable areas but the issue was still ongoing.

We have to see actions rather than words. Taliban in the 90's NEVER, not even once showed any aggression, there was not a single attack. There was no Pakistan army at Af-Pak border, security of those areas were Taliban's responsibility. Afghanistan is real sense was Pakistan's strategic depth. As far as rhetorical narrative is concerned, we have to understand that the whole of Afghanistan (Pashtuns & non-Pashtuns) do not consider durand line as border. We only have to see which group actively at strategic levels engaged against Pakistan's existence. The non-Pashtun groups (Northern alliance) which is enemy of Taliban, even in the past during 50's and 60's actually requested Soviets to do joint operations against Pakistan. They did that too. Multiple times Pakistan was attacked by Non-pashtun regimes in 50s and 60s. In 80's both Afghan air-force and Soviets tried to breach Pakistan's airspace. Our frontline soldiers (Afghan Pashtuns / Mujahideen were our biggest asset) . Norther alliance again in their rule from 2001 to 2020, they had same objectives against dissolution of Pakistan with Indian Support. They could not succeed in their designs because of Taliban. Amrullah Saleh the NDS god father and Vice president of previous Afghanistan regime had said numerous times against existance of Pakistan as a nation state. He envisioned Afghanistan bordering with India as it used to be historically.

We from Pakistan's point of view have to decide either we want strategic enemies (non-Taliban groups) which are in bromance with india and its intelligence agency OR we want an independent entity that is not influenced either by CIA or by RAW. That entity is Taliban. That also means they put benefit of Afghanistan first and foremost before playing any part for foreign powers. That's the reason the trust deficit has increased when they witnessed GHQ working for US interests by allowing drones and doing regime change ops. Taliban wants a friendly relation with Pakistan, its in their interest too. Its in mutual interest of both countries. They collaborated with Pakistan against TTP working closely with previous ISI cheif. That's the reason lot of notorious TTP commanders were assasinated in Afghanistan during that time. But once they realized GHQ's Pro-US policies then that collaboration ended. The best thing in Pakistan's interest is to put Pakistan's interests first, if you turn them as your enemies then you will remain unstable for forever, perhaps some powerful individual in Pakistan wants that so he can extend his rule indefinitely and keep things as they are. But from state's perspective, Nothing better than a friendly regime in neighboring country, especially when it shares longest unmanned and unchecked border with you.

 

[TheSolution]

OR we want an independent entity that is not influenced either by CIA or by RAW. That entity is Taliban. That also means they put benefit of Afghanistan first and foremost before playing any part for foreign powers. That's the reason the trust deficit has increased when they witnessed GHQ working for US interests by allowing drones and doing regime change ops.

Pakistan is not asking Afghanistan to not be independent.

It's asking it to stop supporting terrorism via TTP in its land, which is a reasonable demand from our perspective.

Regarding regime change, whatever your opinion on it may be, it's an internal issue of Pakistan at the end. Yes it can potentially alter relations between states but that remains to be seen, no need to throw fits prematurely from the Taliban side.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Mullah Omar was in support of global Jihad and support of Muslims everywhere. He was consistent with his view and didn’t care if it was Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran or any other neighbour of his. During Mullah Omar’s time many Kashmiris and Pakistanis got training in Afghanistan and he trained them and offered to send fighters to Kashmir and did send some. Even when TTP formed and started attacking Pakistan he told them to stop and join him in fighting NATO invasion instead. During Pakistans nuclear tests as well he openly announced he would launch war on india or any other country who attacks Pakistan.
This is what he said:
View attachment 1003365

Even if Mullah Omar didn’t accept the Durand line as border, he was consistent in his view and supported mujahideen fighting communists in Tajikistan and was harsh on all of his neighbouring countries and even made threats to Iran and supported Baloch in Iran. Compared to them he probably was the softest on Pakistan out of all his neighbours and instead helped Pakistan against india.
That makes logically sense as well since Pakistan is Afghanistan most Islamic Sunni neighbour. Unlike some of current Taliban and their fanboys who ignore their communist atheist neighbours outright cracking down on Islam but attacking Pakistan for not being Islamic enough.

What a great find!

Mullah Omar (Taliban founder) is saying attack on Pakistan will be considered attack on Afghanistan

and what we did, We backstabbed them and now cowardly we put blame on them.

We (GHQ) turn our own Pakistanis against ourselves by allowing US drones to mercilessly kill our people in our territory. Those people value honor above everything. Obviously they avenged their loved ones by staging attacks on Pakistan (the facilitator of US attacks).

I think most of the people here are youngsters, with no clue of how things have moved. People of my age witnessed this all and all those events looks like they happened yesterday. We witnessed our blunders. Even if we had to jump in someone's else war post 9/11. We should have made some red lines. Our GHQ should have atleast some balls to make it clear to americans that under no circumstances Pakistani territory will be bombed. Nation paid with blood and sweat for GHQ's budget and yet they not only let foreign power kill 1000s of Pakistanis but they actually helped them and sold Pakistanis at 5K USD each. We gave all the reasons and fuel to TTP for recruitment inside Pakistan. Nobody points finger at real culprits inside GHQ who for US dollars and their incompetency let this country destabilized. No country allows this BS, either Iran or even houthis shot down US drones, no one is mad enough to let others kill your people and create hatred. but we did. We already created enough enmity inside Pakistan and now final nail in coffin we alienated majority of Pakistanis when GHQ mercilessly went against ordinary Pakistanis based on political affiliation. These jerks in GHQ are real master in making enemy out of own people. Russia, China, Taliban, Pakistani nation, everyone has witnessed these sellable Generals character. This geo-strategic mess is No one's fault but GHQ's zero vision & stupidity.

 

[Goritoes]

Don't make it an ego issue and don't give arguments for the sake of arguments. I am trying not to win an argument. I am just trying to put some sanity.
Before giving any further arguments, Just answer me Is it correct:

Was there no terrorism in Pakistan before 9/11?.

Was Afghanistan under Taliban most peaceful for Pakistan ?

Was Af-Pakistan border (under Taliban - 90's) most peaceful that we didn't even bothered to post military over there?

For anyone who is 40,50 years old, the answer is YES, YES and YES for all three of above questions. So your whole crap of arguements has no value at all that Taliban are bad for Pakistan and bla bla bla.

Now let's see What type of Kabul government Taliban overthrow. Which govt was Pro-indians and collaborating with RAW ? Was the previous Kabul govt OR Taliban govt ?

Its a clear cut answer, the previous govt was totally in bed with indians.


Whatever ideaology and whatever false concepts that you guys have built in your minds are too far from reality. Its time you guys think with logic and check facts.

What's the solution in Your minds?
By the way, I means its too hilarious reading your comments but I am genuinely intrigued that What is the solution in your minds? For a moment I believe you that okay We need to declare Taliban as enemies then what? How do you plan for Pakistan's survival between two monster size enemies then ? That too with no money and so much internal problems, so huge debt, empty pockets, food and power insecurity and all sort of problems and you guys go ahead and annoy the neighbor that shares 2700 border with you. I have explained time and again that even 100 KM border cannot be sealed, the kind of terrain and the size of this border makes it impossible to seal. Even trillion dollar budget cannot do it. I am no fan of Afghans or Taliban but I am not insane that I will make Taliban our enemy, I want to see Pakistan's survival. But anyways, let's see what is the solution in your minds that you are persistent in your thinking for so long.

Ok I will Answer you..

1) Yes, there were Attacks from Afghanistan at times of Taliban, before Taliban... Read the History between Afghanistan and Pakistan relationship.
2) No, It wasn't peaceful for Pakistan because the seeds of Extremism was already sowed in Pakistan's society.
3) Wrong, Pakistan didn't send Army to the western border because the Pashtoon's always resisted, they did not allowed Pakistan's own Army in the Tribal belt, it wasn't until after 9/11 Pakistan has to send in FC, and later when the whole area become the terrorist Infested garbage pile, and TTP started executing the tribal elders who were welcoming Taliban have to beg Army to come save them, before they were all acting macho with Hathyar humara zeewar BS, when TTP came in all become ladyboy's and hide and run away.

Both Govts are toxic for Pakistan, because you are not seeing the point, its not who controls the Kabul its the hate within the Afghan's for Pakistan, the people hate Pakistan for stealing what in their twisted Akhroat heads is part of Afghanistan (KPK & Parts of Balochistan) they refused to accept Pakistan and acknowledge durand line, Taliban or Karzai Govt they are made up of Afghan people and if the people are the ones who hate you than no matter which label you put on them Taliban or ANA, they will still hate you.
When Taliban were in power in 90's and Pakistan literally help them, what stopped Taliban to recognize Durand Line ? and again for 20 years Pakistan helped Taliban covertly to regain Power, what is stopping them now to accept Pakistan and durand Line ? Afghans and by extension Pashtoon's tribal are backward uncivilized people, some of them break away from their customs and culture hence they become educated aka Insaan, but in their Tribal areas they are still the same backward uncivilized violent and non state actors, they will never completely be loyal to Pakistan because Pashtoons are racists as well, and you can deal with a non violent Racists all day long, but when Racism mixed with religious extremism and barbarism that's a dangerous combination, that is what you see in Pakistan's KPK and Tribal areas, and you can't fix it until you send the Afghans back, seal the border completely and ideally forever.

Now as for the solution, Here is my solution and of course its unrealistic but guarantee bring peace to Pakistan..

1) Deport every Afghan, Legal or illegal back to Afghanistan, there is no war in Afghanistan and no Invading forces so they have no reason to stay in Pakistan.
2) Laws must be make for those who will hide illegal Afghans in Pakistan or help them shelter it, and strict actions to be taken to anyone who does it be it a Pathan/Punjabi/Baloch/Sindhi or etc.
3) Massive Re-educational camps for Tribal people, complete ban on Pashtoon culture and Tribal customs and Jirga system.
4) Make it mandatory for Kids to be send into Boarding style schools where they are taught to be non violent and how to behave in a civilized society/system.
5) Anyone who resist sending the kids into such schools their kids should be taken from them and send them to foster care, it happen in USA/EU all the time.
6) Complete Ban for Pashtoon to own or carry any kind of firearm.
7) Registry for them and monitoring their activities to avoid any armed militia or resistant movements.
8) Education for their women with full Govt backing.
9) Those who show signs of violence and craziness, they should be banned to travel outside of KPK or kept in those re-educational camps indefinitely.
10) Last, Teach them how to behave in a civilized world, and there is nothing proud of living in cavemen era with barbaric customs and Riwayaat, teach them to respect others, and not blow themselves and basic manner or Adaab.

Do all that, and in 2 Generations you will have a complete different image of Pashtoon's, which will be non violent, non racists non crazy, non blow up non traitors and than Pakistan can move towards peace and prosperity, and if everything works fine, than do the same for Baloch cause they are not much different.

 

[TheSolution]

Mullah Omar was in support of global Jihad and support of Muslims everywhere. He was consistent with his view and didn’t care if it was Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran or any other neighbour of his. During Mullah Omar’s time many Kashmiris and Pakistanis got training in Afghanistan and he trained them and offered to send fighters to Kashmir and did send some. Even when TTP formed and started attacking Pakistan he told them to stop and join him in fighting NATO invasion instead. During Pakistans nuclear tests as well he openly announced he would launch war on india or any other country who attacks Pakistan.
This is what he said:
View attachment 1003365

Even if Mullah Omar didn’t accept the Durand line as border, he was consistent in his view and supported mujahideen fighting communists in Tajikistan and was harsh on all of his neighbouring countries and even made threats to Iran and supported Baloch in Iran. Compared to them he probably was the softest on Pakistan out of all his neighbours and instead helped Pakistan against india.
That makes logically sense as well since Pakistan is Afghanistan most Islamic Sunni neighbour. Unlike some of current Taliban and their fanboys who ignore their communist atheist neighbours outright cracking down on Islam but attacking Pakistan for not being Islamic enough.

What was his view on Iran?

 

[LeGenD]

We have to see actions rather than words. Taliban in the 90's NEVER, not even once showed any aggression, there was not a single attack. There was no Pakistan army at Af-Pak border, security of those areas were Taliban's responsibility. Afghanistan is real sense was Pakistan's strategic depth. As far as rhetorical narrative is concerned, we have to understand that the whole of Afghanistan (Pashtuns & non-Pashtuns) do not consider durand line as border. We only have to see which group actively at strategic levels engaged against Pakistan's existence. The non-Pashtun groups (Northern alliance) which is enemy of Taliban, even in the past during 50's and 60's actually requested Soviets to do joint operations against Pakistan. They did that too. Multiple times Pakistan was attacked by Non-pashtun regimes in 50s and 60s. In 80's both Afghan air-force and Soviets tried to breach Pakistan's airspace. Our frontline soldiers (Afghan Pashtuns / Mujahideen were our biggest asset) . Norther alliance again in their rule from 2001 to 2020, they had same objectives against dissolution of Pakistan with Indian Support. They could not succeed in their designs because of Taliban. Amrullah Saleh the NDS god father and Vice president of previous Afghanistan regime had said numerous times against existance of Pakistan as a nation state. He envisioned Afghanistan bordering with India as it used to be historically.

We from Pakistan's point of view have to decide either we want strategic enemies (non-Taliban groups) which are in bromance with india and its intelligence agency OR we want an independent entity that is not influenced either by CIA or by RAW. That entity is Taliban. That also means they put benefit of Afghanistan first and foremost before playing any part for foreign powers. That's the reason the trust deficit has increased when they witnessed GHQ working for US interests by allowing drones and doing regime change ops. Taliban wants a friendly relation with Pakistan, its in their interest too. Its in mutual interest of both countries. They collaborated with Pakistan against TTP working closely with previous ISI cheif. That's the reason lot of notorious TTP commanders were assasinated in Afghanistan during that time. But once they realized GHQ's Pro-US policies then that collaboration ended. The best thing in Pakistan's interest is to put Pakistan's interests first, if you turn them as your enemies then you will remain unstable for forever, perhaps some powerful individual in Pakistan wants that so he can extend his rule indefinitely and keep things as they are. But from state's perspective, Nothing better than a friendly regime in neighboring country, especially when it shares longest unmanned and unchecked border with you.

These are Hameed Gul and Lal Topi propaganda talking points. US-backed Afghan setup had imprisoned thousands of TTA, TTP, and ISKP fighters. Same setup helped eliminate many TTP fighters as well.

TTA and TTP are allies on the other hand (all Taliban groups have common foundation). US-backed Afghan setup could not offer much to Pakistan when Pakistan was supporting TTA and being soft on TTP.

Pakistan had no clear vision and strategy for transforming Afghanistan and making it less hostile to Pakistan with American support. Ummah Confusion Syndrome.

Snakes have hibernation period(s). They will bite when active. TTA was preoccupied with Northern Alliance in the 90s. Now TTA can show teeth to Pakistan. TTA does not have do much on its own when TTP can do the dirty work for it.