Pluralism?

[Kompromat]

@muse

I read what you posted, he does carry some thought provoking points. However IMHO another pillar of "pluralism" is "social cohesion". Now i must say and do correct me if i am wrong that Pakistan is the only country in the Muslim world at least for its size that has a "True multicultural social make up". Now multiculturalism is a dual blade sword, on one hand it gives you a "fresh start" to form a coherent society that gets on with each other in respect to mutual differences or it can prove to be a pile of TNT.


Iran is different to us as they have a strong sense of national identity, they don't have 5 mainstream languages with a national and an official language as we do. For us to become a pluralistic state, we have more work to do than established national identities ie Persians,Arabs,Turks,Turkaman,Azaris and so on. We Pakistanis not only have to create a "National identity" but also have to work for religious cohesion in order to achieve pluralism and that does mean including the Christians,the Sikhs,the Hindus,the Zoroastrians,the Qadiyanis and so on.

How is that going to be achieved when our real primer palace in Raiwind not only promotes a singular thought school of islam the deoband who don't tolerate other Muslims let alone non muslims and the added aspect of politically sheltered terrorist outfits like Lashkar e jhangvi?

 

[Silverblaze]

@muse

I read what you posted, he does carry some thought provoking points. However IMHO another pillar of "pluralism" is "social cohesion". Now i must say and do correct me if i am wrong that Pakistan is the only country in the Muslim world at least for its size that has a "True multicultural social make up". Now multiculturalism is a dual blade sword, on one hand it gives you a "fresh start" to form a coherent society that gets on with each other in respect to mutual differences or it can prove to be a pile of TNT.


Iran is different to us as they have a strong sense of national identity, they don't have 5 mainstream languages with a national and an official language as we do. For us to become a pluralistic state, we have more work to do than established national identities ie Persians,Arabs,Turks,Turkaman,Azaris and so on. We Pakistanis not only have to create a "National identity" but also have to work for religious cohesion in order to achieve pluralism and that does mean including the Christians,the Sikhs,the Hindus,the Zoroastrians,the Qadiyanis and so on.

How is that going to be achieved when our real presidential palace in Raiwind not only promotes a singular thought school of islam the deoband who don't tolerate other Muslims let alone non muslims and the added aspect of politically sheltered terrorist outfits like Lashkar e jhangvi?

agree with what you said, but the identity of Pakistanis has been created which is sunni islam.

Most Pakistanis think that sunni islam is the only islam thats worth a mention. any attempt to reverse this, is treason in peoples' eyes.

Nothing can be done as of yet as Pakistan is extremely radicalized and the time, frankly is running out.

A great social movement can reunite Pakistan which is highly unlikely as the failure of Imran proves.
He was rejected by the Punjab.

Pakistan could have learned from Malaysia and even Indonesia.

Military establishment and the civil elite want to rule, politicians want to make money, people want to fight and follow the politicians.

 

[Kompromat]

agree with what you said, but the identity of Pakistanis has been created which is sunni islam.

Most Pakistanis think that sunni islam is the only islam thats worth a mention. any attempt to reverse this, is treason in peoples' eyes.

Nothing can be done as of yet as Pakistan is extremely radicalized and the time, frankly is running out.

A great social movement can reunite Pakistan which is highly unlikely as the failure of Imran proves.
He was rejected by the Punjab.

Pakistan could have learned from Malaysia and even Indonesia.

Military establishment and the civil elite want to rule, politicians want to make money, people want to fight and follow the politicians.

Pakistan was created to be an inclusive islamic democracy NOT a Sunni,Shia or whatever theocratic state. That notion of a Sunni etc has been fed to us. I believe that sooner than later we will move in an inclusive direction.

 

[Silverblaze]

Pakistan was created to be an inclusive islamic democracy NOT a Sunni,Shia or whatever theocratic state. That notion of a Sunni etc has been fed to us. I believe that sooner than later we will move in an inclusive direction.

Its has become a reality and any digression from this narrative invites problems.

I believe that sooner than later we will move in an inclusive direction.

A utopian thought as of now - no offense.

 

[Kompromat]

Its has become a reality and any digression from this narrative invites problems.

I don't believe that its a reality. Just because a small minority of extremists are holding people hostage doesn't mean that Pakistan has become a Sunni/Shia or whatever state.

A utopian thought as of now - no offense.

No utopia exists, but one must strive for betterment.

 

[Silverblaze]

I don't believe that its a reality. Just because a small minority of extremists are holding people hostage doesn't mean that Pakistan has become a Sunni/Shia or whatever state.

Respect for your optimism.

No utopia exists, but one must strive for betterment.

There is one way, however, if Punjab is somehow dragged into what others are facing, may be the elite might wake up and stop playing games.

 

[Kompromat]

Respect for your optimism.

Optimism is all we have,our resilience and our resolve to change and stand in the face of hardship is our core strength. Where it is imperative for a nation seek out its weaknesses it is also imporant to know your strengths....and we have plenty.

There is one way, however, if Punjab is somehow dragged into what others are facing, may be the elite might wake up and stop playing games.

Punjab is the same as other places in Pakistan, 20 hours load shedding, rampant corruption and ignorance. The problem lies on the very top, the morons that ain't loyal to our nation and its goals.

 

[shuntmaster]

How is pluralism defined in Islamic context?
Does Sharia allow pluralism?

 

[Silverblaze]

Optimism is all we have,our resilience and our resolve to change and stand in the face of hardship is our core strength. Where it is imperative for a nation seek out its weaknesses it is also imporant to know your strengths....and we have plenty.

Good luck.

Punjab is the same as other places in Pakistan, 20 hours load shedding, rampant corruption and ignorance. The problem lies on the very top, the morons that ain't loyal to our nation and its goals.

I venture to disagree.

Punjab is far more stable than others as it is the home base of the civil military bureaucracy that is one of the reasons why Nawaz of Raiwind was given a jackpot prize to keep status quo intact.

I worry for Balochistan the most, but anyways we agree to disagree.

 

[Kompromat]

How is pluralism defined in Islamic context?
Does Sharia allow pluralism?

Simple answer is yes, for complex answer i'd have to go into details which are forbidden under forum rules. Help yourself.

@Silverblaze

How do you define stability?

Yes i do share your concern on Balochistan.

 

[shuntmaster]

Simple answer is yes, for complex answer i'd have to go into details which are forbidden under forum rules. Help yourself.

@Silverblaze

How do you define stability?

Yes i do share your concern on Balochistan.

Are Non-Muslims allowed to exist in Dar-Al-Islam as equal citizens, other than dhimmitude?

 

[Kompromat]

Are Non-Muslims allowed to exist in Dar-Al-Islam as equal citizens, other than dhimmitude?

I believe that has happened in the past,its happening in the present and will happen in the future. Current situation in Pakistan for example is less than satisfactory thanks to the reasons we have discussed above. Christians,Hindus are being targeted by vigilantes and getting away with it. Other religious minorities ie Shia's are a victim of a full blown terrorist operation.

 

[Silverblaze]

@Silverblaze

How do you define stability?

When 3 three brothers are unconscious and the 4th is seeking a doctor. One can call the latter stable.

 

[shuntmaster]

I believe that has happened in the past,its happening in the present and will happen in the future.

Can you give some examples from history when it has happened in a sharia state.

 

[Silverblaze]

Are Non-Muslims allowed to exist in Dar-Al-Islam as equal citizens, other than dhimmitude?

You can't compare the dhimmi concept in todays society as this discriminatory law was better during those ages compared to rest of Europe.

Now Malaysia has developed something which many muslim countries need to see.