PL-21 A2A missile for J-20

[cross1993]

That is a Hong Kong newspaper article, it can not guarantee real.
So that article has no value.

 

[marshall]

Most of them believe the 400km, only skeptical about the 800km. But who knows, TG in recent always fills with surprises.

400KM for a ramjet powered missile would have to be a pretty big missile. Unlikely it would be able to fit into the internal weapons bay of the J-20 if it actually had that range. Plus it wouldn't make tactical sense to use the J-20 to carry this sort of weapon considering such a long-range A2A missile would be more suited for carriage by a bomber that is out of range of the target that could use the interlink between a much more high powered radar from one of China's AWACS. At long distances, it is very hard to keep a lock on any semi-stealthy aircraft so why waste valuable weapons bay space on a long-range missile that probably wouldn't be effective against stealth aircraft until the planes were much closer together? The J-20 is obviously meant for deep penetration attack/intercept. Loading such a long-range A2A missile wouldn't make sense for the J-20 platform.

 

[Akasa]

This will be the main air-to-air weapon of the J-20 and other 5th-generation fighters (like the J-16, Snowy Owl, JH-7B, etc).
Range is in fact reported to be 400-800 km

There is also a ramjet upgrade of the PL-12 called the PL-12D, which is similar to the PL-21.

The PL-21 will also equip most 4.5 gen fighters like J-11B/H/S, J-10A/B/C, and J-15.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This will be the main air-to-air weapon of the J-20 and other 5th-generation fighters (like the J-16, Snowy Owl, JH-7B, etc).
Range is in fact reported to be 400-800 km

There is also a ramjet upgrade of the PL-12 called the PL-12D, which is similar to the PL-21.

The PL-21 will also equip most 4.5 gen fighters like J-11B/H/S, J-10A/B/C, and J-15.

That A2A missile must not be small, right?

 

[Akasa]

That A2A missile must not be small, right?

It will be massive, probably around the size of the KS-172

 

[webber]

400-800km !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[marshall]

400KM for a ramjet powered missile would have to be a pretty big missile. Unlikely it would be able to fit into the internal weapons bay of the J-20 if it actually had that range. Plus it wouldn't make tactical sense to use the J-20 to carry this sort of weapon considering such a long-range A2A missile would be more suited for carriage by a bomber that is out of range of the target that could use the interlink between a much more high powered radar from one of China's AWACS. At long distances, it is very hard to keep a lock on any semi-stealthy aircraft so why waste valuable weapons bay space on a long-range missile that probably wouldn't be effective against stealth aircraft until the planes were much closer together? The J-20 is obviously meant for deep penetration attack/intercept. Loading such a long-range A2A missile wouldn't make sense for the J-20 platform.

I'm arguing against my earlier message. Just realized that this sort of long-range A2A missile would be perfect for the J-20 exactly because the J-20 would be able to stealthily penetrate close to a target while it could be passively receiving radar coordinates from a more powerful AWACs radar that would remain out of range of enemy assets, but be more capable of guiding and locking onto an enemy target that the PL-21 would be fired at from the J-20.

 

[marshall]

It will be massive, probably around the size of the KS-172

Perhaps the PAKFA sacrificed maximum stealth and designed its engine inlet without serpentine engine inlets specifically so that the length of the internal weapons bay could hold an ultra long missile. Without a serpentine engine inlet, the PAKFA is able to use the entire central body of the aircraft from behind the pilots seat to almost the tail for its weapons bay. This would allow missiles upwards of 9-10m in length to fit into it if the bay doors were configured accordingly. With the J-20, from the looks of it, the weapons bay will only allow a missile up to maybe 5.5-6.5m at most, probably closer to 5.5m. If this is true, there's no way an 800km range ramjet missile could fit in the J-20, but a 400km range missile could.

 

[Nakul]

I think China first should have fully operational AESA before developing such a LONG range missile
Even that AESA should be able to lock Fighter aircraft up to the range of 400KM which I dont think its possible for jets like F22 and Pak Fa

 

[CardSharp]

Perhaps the PAKFA sacrificed maximum stealth and designed its engine inlet without serpentine engine inlets specifically so that the length of the internal weapons bay could hold an ultra long missile. Without a serpentine engine inlet, the PAKFA is able to use the entire central body of the aircraft from behind the pilots seat to almost the tail for its weapons bay. This would allow missiles upwards of 9-10m in length to fit into it if the bay doors were configured accordingly. With the J-20, from the looks of it, the weapons bay will only allow a missile up to maybe 5.5-6.5m at most, probably closer to 5.5m. If this is true, there's no way an 800km range ramjet missile could fit in the J-20, but a 400km range missile could.

I thought we established here and on the other defence network forum that the PAK-FA doesn't have a serpentine inlet, only the twisty turbine blades.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I think China first should have fully operational AESA before developing such a LONG range missile
Even that AESA should be able to lock Fighter aircraft up to the range of 400KM which I dont think its possible for jets like F22 and Pak Fa

You talking about the not operational AESAs deployed on the KJ 2000, KJ 200, Type 052Cs, and recently exported ZDK 03?

 

[marshall]

I think China first should have fully operational AESA before developing such a LONG range missile
Even that AESA should be able to lock Fighter aircraft up to the range of 400KM which I dont think its possible for jets like F22 and Pak Fa

Agreed, locking onto a target from that distance would need a higher powered AESA radar than will be likely on the J-20. I discussed my thoughts on how this could be overcome in message #22 using an AWACS for targeting and weapons guidance.

 

[marshall]

I thought we established here and on the other defence network forum that the PAK-FA doesn't have a serpentine inlet, only the twisty turbine blades.

I said it DOES NOT have a serpentine inlet, which allows it to use the full length of the fuselage for its weapons bay which would allow a really long missile to fit in it, something up to 9-10m long if the weapons bay door was configured properly. So, maybe this has something to do with the design not using a serpentine inlet in order to gain the ability to carry a really long missile, for perhaps an ultra long distance AAM missile or extended range AShM.

 

[Akasa]

I think China first should have fully operational AESA before developing such a LONG range missile
Even that AESA should be able to lock Fighter aircraft up to the range of 400KM which I dont think its possible for jets like F22 and Pak Fa

China does. KJ-2000 and KJ-200 have L-band AESA.

The J-20's Type 1475 is in testing right now. Other Chinese jets will also be getting AESA like J-11B, J-10B, J-15.

 

[Akasa]

Perhaps the PAKFA sacrificed maximum stealth and designed its engine inlet without serpentine engine inlets specifically so that the length of the internal weapons bay could hold an ultra long missile. Without a serpentine engine inlet, the PAKFA is able to use the entire central body of the aircraft from behind the pilots seat to almost the tail for its weapons bay. This would allow missiles upwards of 9-10m in length to fit into it if the bay doors were configured accordingly. With the J-20, from the looks of it, the weapons bay will only allow a missile up to maybe 5.5-6.5m at most, probably closer to 5.5m. If this is true, there's no way an 800km range ramjet missile could fit in the J-20, but a 400km range missile could.

Not necessarily. The T-50's massive centroplane is for aerodynamic purposes while the weapons bay occupies the central part of it. The J-20's intakes run along the sides of the aircraft and the weapons bays will also run along the center. The intakes would not interfere with the weapons bay. The J-20 also happens to be a few feet longer than the T-50.

In fact, lateral intakes (on J-20) leaves more room than the under-wing intakes because it doesn't occupy most of the centroplane

So from the looks of it, a 800 km missile is perfect for it