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Pindad eyes Bangladesh, Philippines for tank export

I stand corrected.

The replacement for the FV101 through FV107 series is the Stormer light tank from BAE systems. This replaces the scorpion in many roles and ToT for this should be easily obtainable from BAE systems, provided we buy more than a few dozen.

UK Army, Indonesian Army, Malaysian Army and Royal Army of Oman are all operators. I don't know what the Indonesian Army experience is with the Scorpion as well as the new Stormer. Both versions are fast, even the older scorpion is proven to move fast at 70 MPH.

stormer30_1.jpg
stormer30_4.jpg


Tow missile launchers (such as our Metis missile) is optional on both sides of the turret.
stormer30_5.jpg


Stormer 30, first launched in 1997, is a highly mobile armoured reconnaissance vehicle and light tank developed by Alvis Vickers Ltd (now BAE Systems Land Systems) of Coventry, UK.

Stormer 30 is a variant of the Stormer family of tracked vehicles and the development was based on proven technology from the Scorpion range of light tanks for operation on any terrain and in any environment. The vehicle is operated by three crew members, a driver, a commander / loader and a gunner.

The vehicles were trialed and demonstrated in the UK and in the Middle East.

Stormer 30 light tank mission roles
The Stormer 30 fulfils a variety of military and peacekeeping functions, providing reconnaissance, fire support, escort duties, armour in advance and withdrawal, and support within internal security roles.

The fully stabilised HITFIST turret is supplied by Oto Melara and has 30mm cannon and twin TOW missile system providing the capability to fire on the move. The vehicle has tank killing capability and the cannon can defeat light armoured vehicles (LAV) fitted with the highest levels of protection.

Stormer 30 can be lifted by a CH-53 helicopter and will fit into a C-130 transport aircraft. It can be moved by commercial truck, on rail flatbed rolling stock or by an amphibious landing ship.

COIN roles for this small maneuverable tank in hill tracts, anyone?

Storm 30 armament
“Stormer 30 is a new variant of the Stormer tracked vehicles family.”
The main armament of the Stormer 30 is the ATK Ammunition Systems (formerly Boeing Ordnance) Bushmaster II 30mm automatic cannon. The cannon and turret can traverse through 360° and the elevation is from -45° to +60°.

The cannon’s rate of fire is from a single shot to a maximum of 200 rounds per minute. The cannon has a double selection ammunition feed system with 180 rounds of ammunition ready to fire.

Stormer 30 is equipped with two 7.62mm general purpose machine guns with a range of 400m. The machine gun mounted coaxially with the main armament has 700 rounds of ready-to-fire ammunition.

Two multi-barrel grenade launchers installed on the front of the turret provide 180° coverage over the forward arc. The launchers, operating on the 24V electrical supply, are each armed with four smoke grenades.

The installation of the TOW missile launcher on either side of the turret is optional on the Stormer 30. The traverse of the missile launcher is the continuous 360° traverse of the turret and the elevation range is -7.5° to +30°.

The TOW missile is produced by Raytheon Missile Systems Company and is manufactured under licence in the UK by MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics). Versions of the missile have been developed with a high explosive 6in diameter shaped charge and also with a tandem shaped warhead designed for improved hull penetration. Two missiles are carried in the launch tubes and two spare missiles are carried inside the vehicle.

Self-protection
The Stormer 30 is manufactured with an armoured aluminium hull with spaced high hardness steel armour and spall liner, which provides protection against 14.5mm heavy machine guns, mines and artillery shell splinters.

Fire control and surveillance
The sighting and vision systems are fitted according to the customer country’s mission requirements. The commander’s station is fitted with an optional panoramic sight and six episcopes fitted with a switch for gun and episcope alignment. The gunner’s station is equipped with a day and night sight.

Propulsion
The Stormer 30 engine is the 5.88l, six cylinder 6B-275 supplied by Cummins, which provides 187kW at 2,600rpm.

“The Stormer 30 engine is the Cummins 5.88l, six cylinder 6B-275.”
The transmission system is the T303 cross drive automatic transmission system.

The vehicle has an 80km per hour maximum speed on a level tarmac road in both forward and reverse. The vehicle accelerates from 0 to 50km per hour in 20 seconds and from 50 to 65km per hour in 20 seconds. The fording depth is 1m. The maximum gradient for stopping and restarting is 60%.

Mobility of the Stormer 30
The Stormer 30 is fitted with torsion bar type suspension featuring six dual rubber tyre wheels. The drive sprocket is provided at the front and idler at the rear end.

The first, second and sixth road wheel stations are equipped with lever-controlled rotary dampers. Two track-return rollers and the upper side of the track are shrouded by a light steel cover to reduce dust.
 
BD should not buy this Tank unless it can knock out the next generation of Indian Tanks.

The main battle tanks in India (such as Bhishma T-90 and Arjun) are too heavy to field in Bangladesh soft terrain, even in the winter. In rainy season, one can forget about it. The terrain is muddy and rendered untankable by mud and submerged land. Arjun Mk. I weighs 58 tons and Mk. II weighs 68 tons. Just too damned heavy for this terrain, even in winter dry season.

They will field lighter tracked tanks in the range of 30 tons, if at all, or maybe wheeled AFV platforms and only in the winter. Will be mostly infantry action with strong air superiority and air support, and our Army battle doctrine should take that into consideration (which I am sure they have).

By the way - after the Arjun debacle and f*ck-*p, this nation of 1.2 Billion is clearing the drawing boards, once again, for another attempt at their next Future Main Battle Tank or FMBT at 50 tonnes. Some shots...

k94Fgdm.jpg


1436705992-indian-fmbt.jpg


Some folks say DRDO has already shelved the FMBT which was already built as a technology demonstrator. But the need for a smaller infantry tank or wheeled IFV (even as small as 30 tons) has not gone away from their side, or for that matter, ours either.

In my opinion - we should take a long-term plan to look at possibly wheeled (not tracked) vehicle in the 30 ton range which have far greater speed than our MBT's which are heavy, lumbering behemoths not rapid-deploy capable for blitzkrieg type rapid and deep offensive maneuvers. These will have filled run-flat tyres and will have turrets in smaller smooth bore (say about 100 or 105mm) but capable of using 'smart' rounds which can be guided high precision missiles as well as 'dumb' HEAT and spent uranium (D38) rounds. The world has moved away from 60-70 ton behemoths for fielding fronts of battle columns when far more nimble and effective infantry fighting vehicles in the thirty ton range are available.

This is the Mitsubishi Type 16 maneuver combat vehicle (16式機動戦闘車 Hitoroku-shiki kidou-sentou-sha) is a wheeled tank destroyer of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force. It weighs 26 tons in tank destroyer mode with a 105 mm gun. Something we can maybe get ToT on or build locally even forgetting our toes wet on a journey of self-sufficiency.

I don't know if there is a PLA developed equivalent.

800px-Maneuver_Combat_Vehicle_07.jpg
800px-Maneuver_Combat_Vehicle_08.jpg
iu


Some say this was a copy of the Italian B1 Centauro wheeled IFV which also had a similar weight and weight to power ratio. Body was by IVECO (Fiat) and armament was by (you guessed it) Oto Melara.
Centauro_Tank_Iraq.jpg


One version also comes as a self-propelled howitzer (Centauro 155). Great stable basis for any turret.
800px-Centauro155-39LW_MSPO2012.jpg
 
The main battle tanks in India (such as Bhishma T-90 and Arjun) are too heavy to field in Bangladesh soft terrain, even in the winter. In rainy season, one can forget about it. The terrain is muddy and rendered untankable by mud and submerged land. Arjun Mk. I weighs 58 tons and Mk. II weighs 68 tons. Just too damned heavy for this terrain, even in winter dry season.

They will field lighter tracked tanks in the range of 30 tons, if at all, or maybe wheeled AFV platforms and only in the winter. Will be mostly infantry action with strong air superiority and air support, and our Army battle doctrine should take that into consideration (which I am sure they have).

By the way - after the Arjun debacle and f*ck-*p, this nation of 1.2 Billion is clearing the drawing boards, once again, for another attempt at their next Future Main Battle Tank or FMBT at 50 tonnes. Some shots...

k94Fgdm.jpg


1436705992-indian-fmbt.jpg


Some folks say DRDO has already shelved the FMBT which was already built as a technology demonstrator. But the need for a smaller infantry tank or wheeled IFV (even as small as 30 tons) has not gone away from their side, or for that matter, ours either.

In my opinion - we should take a long-term plan to look at possibly wheeled (not tracked) vehicle in the 30 ton range which have far greater speed than our MBT's which are heavy, lumbering behemoths not rapid-deploy capable for blitzkrieg type rapid and deep offensive maneuvers. These will have filled run-flat tyres and will have turrets in smaller smooth bore (say about 100 or 105mm) but capable of using 'smart' rounds which can be guided high precision missiles as well as 'dumb' HEAT and spent uranium (D38) rounds. The world has moved away from 60-70 ton behemoths for fielding fronts of battle columns when far more nimble and effective infantry fighting vehicles in the thirty ton range are available.

This is the Mitsubishi Type 16 maneuver combat vehicle (16式機動戦闘車 Hitoroku-shiki kidou-sentou-sha) is a wheeled tank destroyer of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force. It weighs 26 tons in tank destroyer mode with a 105 mm gun. Something we can maybe get ToT on or build locally even forgetting our toes wet on a journey of self-sufficiency.

I don't know if there is a PLA developed equivalent.

800px-Maneuver_Combat_Vehicle_07.jpg
800px-Maneuver_Combat_Vehicle_08.jpg
iu


Some say this was a copy of the Italian B1 Centauro wheeled IFV which also had a similar weight and weight to power ratio. Body was by IVECO (Fiat) and armament was by (you guessed it) Oto Melara.
Centauro_Tank_Iraq.jpg


One version also comes as a self-propelled howitzer (Centauro 155). Great stable basis for any turret.
800px-Centauro155-39LW_MSPO2012.jpg


NW BD terrain has suitable terrain for medium battle tanks. IA will use many hundreds of Tanks against BD in any future war in this area.

I think that this light tank need not even be used in the NW as it will be suitable for most of BD, and as already mentioned will come with 5km range anti-tank missile system that can knock out any tank.

A tank like this in combination with hundreds of next-gen medium tank is what BA needs over the next decade.
 
NW BD terrain has suitable terrain for medium battle tanks. IA will use many hundreds of Tanks against BD in any future war in this area.

I think that this light tank need not even be used in the NW as it will be suitable for most of BD, and as already mentioned will come with 5km range anti-tank missile system that can knock out any tank.

A tank like this in combination with hundreds of next-gen medium tank is what BA needs over the next decade.

I agree.

But if you are talking about infantry battles you need an IFV rather than a full on tank.

Look at one of my favorite IFV's in the medium weight class (30-40 tonnes), the German Schützenpanzer (SPz) Puma.

Look how maneuverable, nimble and effective this vehicle is compared to what we have. Watch how the auto gyro of the gun keeps it level. Amazing!

This is the level of maneuverability one should strive for when designing a fighting vehicle.


Problem is, these are expensive at 9 Million Euros each. But with ToT - the cost can come down significantly.

Or, maybe the VT-4/5 can possibly offer the same level of maneuverability (shooting level while jumping/swaying over obstacles and turning corners).
 
NW BD terrain has suitable terrain for medium battle tanks.
I think that this light tank need not even be used in the NW as it will be suitable for most of BD

Hae. That why MBT-2000 is there. The first two regiment of VT-5 is will be procured for Ramu cantonment AFAIK.

But if you are talking about infantry battles you need an IFV rather than a full on tank.

The requirement for IFV is low (probably 300). And will the armor of an IFV or tank destroyer really be able to take hit like a tank?? when even modern tank like Leopard gets destroyed by old TOW missile. If you really want something like Puma IFV then think about Bumerang APC. It also has 30mm gun and anti-tank missile. It's also amphibious. While we don't buy anything from Germany or don't have that type of relationship, we already maintain that with russia and familiar with their tech. Bumerang is maybe costly but not close to Puma i guess and i am sure it's more perfect for our terrain because of it's amphibious capability.

1024px-4mayrehearsal_21.jpg

you can also think about Kurganets-25 ifv.

1024px-4mayrehearsal_17.jpg


I don't know if there is a PLA developed equivalent.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...icle_technical_data_sheet_specifications.html

https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...t_specifications_pictures_video_10806164.html
 
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Indonesia put emphasize for medium tank after learning alot from many models of armor and doctrine. We got BMP 3F, Leopard 2A4, Scorpion recce, AMX 13 and got close encounter for T72, abram M1, surely its not perfect but suit our need for modern Tank light enough to deploy in harsh conditions and have light logistic footprint compared to fullscale MBT like Leopard 2 RI and had moderate price and quite mature technology.

BTW, Medium tank is not the sole program of our Army, we still trying to Reverse engineering Pandur IFV and fsv, starting to designing and developed mbt for near future use

8a6b519859d18e3ebff6a4932c4ea15d.jpg
8b99a460df21c2c7d5094a895cbe0635.jpg
 
Hae. That why MBT-2000 is there. The first two regiment of VT-5 is will be procured for Ramu cantonment AFAIK.



The requirement for IFV is low (probably 300). And will the armor of an IFV or tank destroyer really be able to take hit like a tank?? when even modern tank like Leopard gets destroyed by old TOW missile. If you really want something like Puma IFV then think about Bumerang APC. It also has 30mm gun and anti-tank missile. It's also amphibious. While we don't buy anything from Germany or don't have that type of relationship, we already maintain that with russia and familiar with their tech. Bumerang is maybe costly but not close to Puma i guess and i am sure it's more perfect for our terrain because of it's amphibious capability.

1024px-4mayrehearsal_21.jpg

you can also think about Kurganets-25 ifv.

1024px-4mayrehearsal_17.jpg




https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...icle_technical_data_sheet_specifications.html

https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...t_specifications_pictures_video_10806164.html

Appreciate your response.

Although the Kurganets is a tracked IFV, it is more appropriate for a fighting platform in an infantry war rather than an APC like the Bumerang, whose main job is mainly to ferry troops back and forth to and from the frontline.

Per my limited understanding - Bumerang is essentially a new generation BTR-80 replacement. As you may know the BTR-90 was cancelled although you can still order BTR-80 variants from the Ukranians. But Bumerang improves on the BTR-80 in every area, but I would be hard pressed to call it an IFV. That said, IFV command and control version could exist, and METIS launchers version as well etc.

It is my understanding that if there is skirmish between India or Myanmar and us, it will be a short one and mainly an infantry skirmish, rather than a protracted war with missiles and/or air superiority being involved. So IFV's (fast modern IFV's) would be more appropriate for the frontline for scouting and recce work while our Serbian howitzers, and the heavy MBT-2000's stay in the rear of the front column and provide fire support.

I could be off-base however. Don't know details about Bangladesh war doctrine which should be pretty secretive anyway.
 
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@Michael Corleone based on the STANAG 4569 what protection level VT-5 provide? Better than Kaplan MT?
Armor protect packages have not been specified yet... though on their barebones config... they're both rolled steel chassis and would provide similar protection compared to APCs like BTR-80 i wouldn't put on armor on them... that will be redundant weight and anything can punch through both of them... just like leo 1... 1st gen leo 2....
 
Armor protect packages have not been specified yet... though on their barebones config... they're both rolled steel chassis and would provide similar protection compared to APCs like BTR-80 i wouldn't put on armor on them... that will be redundant weight and anything can punch through both of them... just like leo 1... 1st gen leo 2....

These days there are so many types of sophisticated penetrating rounds that your only hope is dumb sand bags around APC's. A lot cheaper than sandwich armor (COBHAM) or ERA of any sort.

M113 APC routinely used Sandbags as armor.

iu
 
These days there are so many types of sophisticated penetrating rounds that your only hope is dumb sand bags around APC's. A lot cheaper than sandwich armor (COBHAM) or ERA of any sort.

M113 APC routinely used Sandbags as armor.

iu
I think it’s useless to drive around at a slow speed at which you’re most vulnerable. You might as well take a walk...
 
Continuing on the discussion of small/medium tanks, tankettes and armored vehicles, here is a small tankette produced by Rheinmetall, the Wiesel. Versions 1 (2.75 tons) and 2 (larger at about 5 tons) are in use by both German Bundeswehr and US armies. Wiesel 1 weighs less than the HUMVEE, and is designed to be transported by air. It uses a 2.1 liter Audi diesel and is armored to resist 5.56 and 7.62 potshots.

This recon tankette iMHO, is a great versatile candidate for ToT manufacture in Bangladesh considering our terrain and wet landscape. The variants include almost every imaginable armament (see below).

TOW missile
wiesel_1_l1.jpg


20 mm autocannon
wiesel_1_l2.jpg


Proven in Somalian conflict (UNISOM)
wiesel_1_l3.jpg


Mortar variant
wiesel_1_l4.jpg


Size in relation to heli (two being carried, larger transports eg C130 can carry four probably, our CN235's can carry at least one.
wiesel_1_l5.jpg

All images above courtesy of Military-Today Magazine

Some more images

Wiesel 1 with 20mm autocannon
Wiesel120mm2.jpg


Wiesel 1 w/Leflasys launcher
Ozelot.jpg


Wiesel 2 with MORTAR
1024px-W2_lepzmrs.jpg


Wiesel 1 Guided Missile air defense variant
Ozelot.jpg


Wiesel 2 Argus scout vehicle
lossy-page1-1024px-W2_argus.tif.jpg


Wiesel 2 ambulance
W2_santrp.PNG


Wiesel 2 command post
800px-W2_bewbefst.PNG


Wiesel 2 air defence reconnaissance and fire control vehicle
Wiesel2_radar.jpg
 
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