PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

[ACE OF THE AIR]

 

[kris]

Honestly it is worst luck that plane was landing on Runway 25L.

Karachi has 4 runways and any of the other 3 would have avoided residential areas. They were large open areas near the other runways which means everyone on the plane may have survived as well. By terrible luck, the only runway that goes over dense residential areas is 25L and that is the runway the plane used.

I am wondering why the plane didn't switch from 25L to runway 25R if pilots knew there was a danger of crashing before the runway. It would have been fairly easy to turn towards the parallel runway away from residential areas unless the plane's controls were so crippled that the pilots had basically no ability to control anything. Even in worst case scenario with runway 25L, the area that lies directly underneath the flightpath is actually very small, maybe only a few hundred feet wide, a plane will cover that distance in less than 1 second. It is almost unbelievable that it didn't crash in either the open areas before or after Model Colony since the chances of it hitting that specific area is so unlikely that if the plane was just a little bit higher, lower, faster, or slower and it would've missed Model Colony and crashed in a wide open field. It was really really terrible luck that there is such a tiny area below the flightpath and that's exactly where it crashed. I would hope that if the pilots had any ability to steer it even a little bit away from Model Colony that they tried to do it. Even with extremely damaged controls, they probably would still have been able to aim for runway 25R parallel if at all possible. If they had moved 50 feet to the right or at least tried to aim for Runway 25R, they would probably have missed Model Colony and crashed in an open field and most likely everyone would have survived. The fact that they couldn't even move a little bit to the right means that the plane's controls were really crippled to the extent that it was almost unflyable, pilots could not input even basic direction commands because the plane was stalling so rapidly and had probably run out of hydraulic fluid as well as oil killing both engines at low altitude, low speed, basically making it a glider falling like a brick with zero directional control. It was really a struggle fighting the controls until the very end during the final seconds

In most aviation incidents, usually you can fix a mistake if you realize it in time. But there are certain mistakes in aviation that once you make, you are doomed and nothing can fix it. I think this PIA crash was one of those situations where after it hit the runway and aborted, nothing could save it once it decided to go around. The countdown timer started and it was a race against the clock if the plane could make it back to the runway before leaking all of its hydraulic fluid and oil causing dual engine failure and loss of control just before 2nd landing. They were so close to the runway but they were going to crash no matter what. The question was, will they crash into Model Colony, crash in an open field, or crash on the runway.

Sad that they missed very narrow

 

[pak-marine]

this is not confirmed however there is eye witness accounts that the plane first hit a mobile tower which set off the series of events

 

[Aspen]

Yes it was made available to them at approximately 2000ft after cleared to land on 25L was already given. approach also asked if they were intending to belly land which was responded by AFIRM and then loss of engines and a MAY DAY all this happened in less than a minute.
If you may have heard the audio then the call was 5 miles out of 3500 for 3000 established on ILS 25L... Clear LAND. and the last words that are heard where Mayday is heard is approximately 1 min.

If you are a pilot than you know that ILS has both visual and instrument to guide. Any pilot who is in an emergency would prefer ILS over Visual specially if he is on limited instruments without power and unreliable electrical supply. Pilot would see PAPPIS to guide him and this is what he was doing.

Last minute turn to the right and realignment with the other runway (25R) could have them loose sight of the runway all together. Do remember that turn also drops your nose as you bleed off airspeed. This is something that can not be lost in the final few minutes of landing even in Ideal conditions.

If ILS was the concern, then why didn't go for 7R instead of 25L? One thing is pretty clear and that is that when hydraulic fluid and oil started leaking from the bottom of the scraped engine, they had very little time to make it back to the runway. Maybe 5 minutes? Doing a 360 all the way back to 25L would have taken 5 minutes alone, the oil would probably run out and shut off both engines just as the plane began its short final if we assume a 5 minute depletion period during the circle back to 25L. If the engines shut off just as plane begins its short final and glides at low altitude towards 25L over Model Colony, is there any way you don't crash? Gliding is something that only works at high altitude, at low altitude, gliding is a recipe for disaster. If 25L takes too long to circle back to before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil run out while 25R doesn't have ILS, then neither 25's should have been used. I get that typically its a bad idea to fly with wind direction instead of against it, but I don't think it would have been worse than running out of hydraulic fluid and oil which the pilots chose by taking the longer route back to 25L. Making a 180 after abort to approach runway 7R ILS from opposite direction would have been a much better idea as it would have given pilots a significant time buffer against the hydraulic fluid and oil running out by saving at least 1-2 minutes compared to 360 circle back to 25L. 1-2 minutes before crash, the plane probably still had some engine power and minimal directional control for a somewhat controlled safe landing that could reach the runway before running out of hydraulic fluid and oil within the 5 minute depletion window. Pilots probably took the chance that they would make it back to 25L before hydraulic fluid and oil ran out but they didn't make it back in time. When hydraulic fluid ran out, they lost flaps on short final, when oil ran out, they lost engines on short final. It seems like an unrecoverable situation to end up in, it's really not worth the chance of taking the long circle back to 25L with the risk of ending up in a situation where you can suddenly lose everything without warning at low altitude low speed seconds before the runway. If they went for 7R ILS, I am almost certain that the plane would have made it back to the runway in time to do a safe, controlled landing before hydraulic fluid ran out, oil ran out, and both engines shut off.

 

[Blacklight]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1263996659408736256

 

[pak-marine]

Pakistan plane crash survivor: 'All I could see was smoke and fire'


One of two survivors recalls how Airbus crashed during second attempt to land at Karachi airport, killing at least 97 people

Agencies

Sat 23 May 2020 04.14 BSTLast modified on Sat 23 May 2020 10.20 BST


At a Karachi hospital plane crash survivor Mohammad Zubair told officials: ‘All I could see was fire. I couldn’t see any people – just hear their screams.’ Photograph: AP
One of the two survivors of the Pakistan plane crash has described his escape from the burning plane after it came down during a second attempt at a landing.

“All I could see around was smoke and fire,” engineer Muhammad Zubair told Geo News. “I could hear screams from all directions. Kids and adults. All I could see was fire. I couldn’t see any people – just hear their screams.”

“I opened my seat belt and saw some light. I went towards the light. I had to jump down about 10 feet to get to safety.”

The Pakistan International Airlines Airbus jet with 99 people aboard crashed into a crowded residential district of the city of Karachi on Friday afternoon after twice trying to land at the airport.

At least 97 people were confirmed to have died, health authorities said, but it was not immediately clear whether they included casualties on the ground.

Play Video
Pakistan plane crash: smoke billows over residential area in Karachi – video
The other passenger who survived was Zafar Masood, president of the Bank of Punjab, a Sindh provincial government spokesman said. The bank said he had suffered fractures but was “conscious and responding well”.

Zubair said from his bed in Civil Hospital Karachi that about 10 minutes after a failed first landing attempt, the pilot announced to passengers he was going to make a second attempt, then crashed as he approached the runway.

Smoke billowed from the scene where flight PK 8303 came down at about 2.45pm local time. Twisted fuselage lay in the rubble of multi-storey buildings as ambulances rushed through chaotic crowds.

The crash happened on the eve of the Muslim Eid festival, when many in Pakistan travel to visit relatives.

“The aeroplane first hit a mobile tower and crashed over houses,” witness Shakeel Ahmed said near the site, a few kilometres short of the airport.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ivor-all-i-could-see-was-smoke-and-fire#img-2
The Airbus A320 was flying from the eastern city of Lahore to Karachi in the south with 91 passengers and eight crew, civil aviation authorities said, just as Pakistan was resuming domestic flights in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
Health officials said 97 people were killed and two survived.

Seconds before the crash, the pilot told air traffic controllers he had lost power from both engines, according to a recording posted on liveatc.net, a respected aviation monitoring website.

“We are returning back, sir, we have lost engines,” a man was heard saying in a recording released by the website. The controller freed up both the airport’s runways but moments later the man called, “Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!”.

There was no further communication from the plane, according to the tape, which could not immediately be authenticated.

“The last we heard from the pilot was that he has some technical problem ... It is a very tragic incident,” said the state carrier’s spokesman, Abdullah H. Khan.

Another senior civil aviation official said it appeared the plane had been unable to lower its undercarriage for the first approach due to a technical fault, but it was too early to determine the cause.

Aviation safety experts say air crashes typically have multiple causes, and that it is too early to understand them within the first hours or days.

Airbus said the jet first flew in 2004 and was fitted with engines built by CFM International, co-owned by General Electric and France’s Safran.

 

[Blacklight]

Pakistan plane crash survivor: 'All I could see was smoke and fire'


One of two survivors recalls how Airbus crashed during second attempt to land at Karachi airport, killing at least 97 people

Agencies

Sat 23 May 2020 04.14 BSTLast modified on Sat 23 May 2020 10.20 BST


At a Karachi hospital plane crash survivor Mohammad Zubair told officials: ‘All I could see was fire. I couldn’t see any people – just hear their screams.’ Photograph: AP
One of the two survivors of the Pakistan plane crash has described his escape from the burning plane after it came down during a second attempt at a landing.

“All I could see around was smoke and fire,” engineer Muhammad Zubair told Geo News. “I could hear screams from all directions. Kids and adults. All I could see was fire. I couldn’t see any people – just hear their screams.”

“I opened my seat belt and saw some light. I went towards the light. I had to jump down about 10 feet to get to safety.”

The Pakistan International Airlines Airbus jet with 99 people aboard crashed into a crowded residential district of the city of Karachi on Friday afternoon after twice trying to land at the airport.

At least 97 people were confirmed to have died, health authorities said, but it was not immediately clear whether they included casualties on the ground.

Play Video
Pakistan plane crash: smoke billows over residential area in Karachi – video
The other passenger who survived was Zafar Masood, president of the Bank of Punjab, a Sindh provincial government spokesman said. The bank said he had suffered fractures but was “conscious and responding well”.

Zubair said from his bed in Civil Hospital Karachi that about 10 minutes after a failed first landing attempt, the pilot announced to passengers he was going to make a second attempt, then crashed as he approached the runway.

Smoke billowed from the scene where flight PK 8303 came down at about 2.45pm local time. Twisted fuselage lay in the rubble of multi-storey buildings as ambulances rushed through chaotic crowds.

The crash happened on the eve of the Muslim Eid festival, when many in Pakistan travel to visit relatives.

“The aeroplane first hit a mobile tower and crashed over houses,” witness Shakeel Ahmed said near the site, a few kilometres short of the airport.

The Airbus A320 was flying from the eastern city of Lahore to Karachi in the south with 91 passengers and eight crew, civil aviation authorities said, just as Pakistan was resuming domestic flights in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
Health officials said 97 people were killed and two survived.

Seconds before the crash, the pilot told air traffic controllers he had lost power from both engines, according to a recording posted on liveatc.net, a respected aviation monitoring website.

“We are returning back, sir, we have lost engines,” a man was heard saying in a recording released by the website. The controller freed up both the airport’s runways but moments later the man called, “Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!”.

There was no further communication from the plane, according to the tape, which could not immediately be authenticated.

“The last we heard from the pilot was that he has some technical problem ... It is a very tragic incident,” said the state carrier’s spokesman, Abdullah H. Khan.

Another senior civil aviation official said it appeared the plane had been unable to lower its undercarriage for the first approach due to a technical fault, but it was too early to determine the cause.

Aviation safety experts say air crashes typically have multiple causes, and that it is too early to understand them within the first hours or days.

Airbus said the jet first flew in 2004 and was fitted with engines built by CFM International, co-owned by General Electric and France’s Safran.

“The aeroplane first hit a mobile tower and crashed over houses,” witness Shakeel Ahmed said near the site, a few kilometres short of the airport.

CAA and City planners are responsible for "anything" within the flt path. Someone should also ask the Telco as well.
But in Pakistan "Sub chalta hai"

 

[Imran Khan]

 

[pak-marine]

CAA and City planners are responsible for "anything" within the flt path. Someone should also ask the Telco as well.
But in Pakistan "Sub chalta hai"

Scum bags , from Top to Toe every single govt entity

 

[newb3e]

Scum bags , from Top to Toe every single govt entity

cant also has high rises nearby please un peh bhi gussa kar dain! they are also building another society right next to airport un peh bho gussa kar lain!

 

[Maarkhoor]

With total engine failure, gliding depends on 2 things and 2 things only:

1. Altitude
2. Speed

There have been several successful examples of airliners gliding to ditch in an emergency where everyone survived

US Airways 1549
British Airways 38
Air Canada 143
Ural Airways 178
Air Transat 236

But those were all gliding from a high altitude and good speed which makes much gliding much easier.

I don't think there has ever been a successful airliner glide from low altitude low speed situations.

How long they PIA was able to glide depends on when engines failed. If both engines quit at 2000ft altitude, they could have glided for a few minutes almost to the runway and had enough altitude to aim for an open field or somewhere to ditch in an emergency. If both engines quit on short final at low altitude, then they're f*****. But even a gliding airplane with dual engine failure would still be able to have some directional control to aim away from residential areas-unless flight controls were damaged by hydraulic failure also which appears to be the case. This is basically the worst case scenario, a plane at low altitude, low speed, with no power, and no directional control. In aviation, this situation is called coffin corner because you cannot get out of it unless you find somewhere open to ditch at the last second. Literally cannot be worse. On the CCTV video, the plane is a glider falling like a brick.

I don't think there was any way to land that plane given what they were dealing with. They could only hope to try to crash it safely in an open field somewhere but they didn't have directional control because of hydraulic loss so they couldn't even do that.

What I want to know is:

1. Did plane have directional control?
2. Did plane have ability to turn right to avoid hitting Model Colony and aim for open field?
3. If they did have ability to turn, why didn't they aim for open field?

As per confirm reports either pilots by mistake or because of technical problem landing gear not open and they don't know....they tried landing and scratch both engines on the runway later they realized and try to climb and open landing gear but at that time due to scathing on runway both engines fail and plane stalled.

 

[Imran Khan]

CAA and City planners are responsible for "anything" within the flt path. Someone should also ask the Telco as well.
But in Pakistan "Sub chalta hai"

CAA and city planners also destroyed our skyline . tey did not allow to build high rises but they can not stop the mess near airport ,

 

[Blacklight]

CAA and city planners also destroyed our skyline . tey did not allow to build high rises but they can not stop the mess near airport ,

Sir with high rise buildings, you need a very efficient multi layered road network, and mass transit system. Without this High rises only encourage traffic congestion. As you might be aware that traffic congestions have a direct effect on productivity and hence the economy.

As to the vicinity of the airport, this incident has highlighted two issues:
1) Population close to it
2) Sanitary issues - garbage pile ups.

Both these issues are a hazard to aviation, and need to be addressed at the earliest.

 

[313ghazi]

Inna lillahi wa Inna ilahi rajioun.

What a terrible moment for all the families involved.

 

[pak-marine]

cant also has high rises nearby please un peh bhi gussa kar dain! they are also building another society right next to airport un peh bho gussa kar lain!

equally big khanzirs they are constructing and selling floors most are illegal however the issue is they are free to do as they like and as long as they can keep filling pockets of the respective authorities no one gives a flyng fck, what i am saying is builder mafias work in conjuction with indivisuals within authorites , they can shut up any one raising an issue within a day ... heck the entire thing is on the door step of a holy chaowni .. when those who are paid to protect , plan , safeguard life and property are like this than expect this .. does this makes you happy