PHOTOS: Arjun Mk.2 In Desert Trials

[hurt]

well they have diff requirements ans we have diff besides care to tell me why british still using rifeled guns and as i hear challenger tanks have the highest kill ratio of any tank gun

Uniquely among NATO main battle tank armament, the L30A1 is rifled, because the British Army continues to place a premium on the use of high explosive squash head (HESH) rounds in addition to APFSDS armour-piercing rounds. HESH rounds have a longer range (up to 8 kilometres / 5 miles) than APFSDS, and are more effective against buildings and thin-skinned vehicles.

LOL,Plz tell me Arjun only for thin-skinned vehicles? I think that Type 59 is not a thin-skinned vehicles

 

[hurt]

we are already producing them sir full scale production is not in as army is waiting for MK2 to get trails done after that i wont be surprised if more than 500 arjun MK2 ordered so

now I only saw 124 arjun Mk1 and 807 T-90s in Indian Army , its means that 120 mm rifled tank gun better thank 125mm?

 

[hurt]

Its depend on country that suit to its requirement.

But most commons views about smooth-bore is that-

1)- As rifle-gun has better range, but as technology is improved, this feature of rifle-gun significantly reduced. This happen due now smoothbore-guns are able to fire much more accuracy, due well stable plate-form & better FCS, ever than before. & visibility limitation are frequently occurred beyond the range.

2)-Smoothbore-gun is much easier to manufacture & also cost reduction can achieve.

3)- Most important because now variety of ammu & missile are developed which give more punch to smoothbore, leads many country towards smoothbore.

The chief advantages of smoothbore designs are their greater suitability for fin stabilised ammunition and their greatly reduced barrel wear compared with rifled designs. Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

 

[SwatCat]

Can I get this document?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/95660-arjun-mark-ii-israeli-view-must-read.html

 

[Mujraparty]

 

[ANPP]

Uniquely among NATO main battle tank armament, the L30A1 is rifled, because the British Army continues to place a premium on the use of high explosive squash head (HESH) rounds in addition to APFSDS armour-piercing rounds. HESH rounds have a longer range (up to 8 kilometres / 5 miles) than APFSDS, and are more effective against buildings and thin-skinned vehicles.

LOL,Plz tell me Arjun only for thin-skinned vehicles? I think that Type 59 is not a thin-skinned vehicles

That was not the HESH round. That was the FIN round & it penetrate the t-62 from the hull not from turrent, so you just can imagine what kind of energy it posses even after 5km travel.

Main problem is HEAT round, which dont give satisfactory performance via rifle-gun. But this is okey because better performance of other rounds.

The chief advantages of smoothbore designs are their greater suitability for fin stabilised ammunition and their greatly reduced barrel wear compared with rifled designs. Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

FIN round perform much better in rifle-gun. Extra spinning give it much more accuracy & power punch. What you illustrate here is just illusion about rifle-gun. HEAT is real problem for rifle-gun. HESH are good in smoothbore but give better performance in rifle-gun.

 

[SQ8]

Are you blind? Fool. Im talking of HEAT/HE-FRAG rounds and you're talking of APFSDS rounds's veolcity.

Al-Khalid's velocity for HEAT round is only 850m/s, for HE-FRAG its 950m/s. Sorry for my mistake between HEAT and
HEFRAG back there. 1760m/s is for APFSDS rounds.



http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...sEBNvxTlcGltXmmPQ&sig2=2P0lDExyHhTEVo8f5YCiiA

Arjun's velocity for HEAT rounds itself is 1650m/s !! That of APFSDS rounds in significantly greater.



Source? I know PDF professional members saying AK's off-road speed with torsion-bar suspension cannot
be more than 25 kmph.



Please...atleast read your wikipedia carefully.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...X98CHC9w5EgXPXMZA&sig2=bnDTK1qBPmwuqqbddzt0Iw

Al-Khalid carried only 39 rounds of ammo, what fool told you that it carries 49 ?

ARJUN carries 39 when using blast-proff canisters (something AK lacks), when carrying them plain (like AK), it can carry
44 rounds. Since when did 39 become a larger no. than 44?



Rifled guns are harder to make than smoothbores. The one for Arjun M2 gives more velocity and now
has better FCS, therefore.



Licensing a chinese gun and assembling it in-house doesn't make it pakistani. But you wanna believe thats
its indigenous pakistani stuff. go ahead and live in that delusion.

India has built the rifled 120mm gun from scratch.

No it hasnt
the arjun's main gun is based on the Royal Ordnance L11A5 gun.
Originally the arjun was to get a smoothbore gun as well..
but its current gun which also suffers from muzzle chipping has been put in after DRDO was impressed by the challenger tank.
Here is your own countyman debating the issue
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/165977-rifled-gun-arjun-tank-mistake.html

 

[hurt]

That was not the HESH round. That was the FIN round & it penetrate the t-62 from the hull not from turrent, so you just can imagine what kind of energy it posses even after 5km travel.

Main problem is HEAT round, which dont give satisfactory performance via rifle-gun. But this is okey because better performance of other rounds.




FIN round perform much better in rifle-gun. Extra spinning give it much more accuracy & power punch. What you illustrate here is just illusion about rifle-gun. HEAT is real problem for rifle-gun. HESH are good in smoothbore but give better performance in rifle-gun.

Since the 1970s, HESH ammunitions have increasingly fallen out of favor as armoring designs have trended towards layered composites of hard metal and heat-resistant materials. This type of armor is a poor conductor of shock waves. The adoption of anti-spalling devices (spall liners), made of materials such as Kevlar, are commonly fitted to the interior surface of modern armored vehicles to mitigate spalling effects. Another reason for the declining use of HESH rounds is the preference of most armies for smoothbore cannons, since a HESH shell is reliant upon rifling (spin) to be accurate. Rifled tank guns have fallen out of favor in modern battle tanks; however, the British Army has persisted with a rifled cannon on their Challenger 1 and Challenger 2 battle tanks partly to preserve the general purpose capability of HESH ammunition. Nevertheless, the British Army had planned for a conversion to the more versatile smoothbore cannons, but the project was cancelled due to budget constraints. This would have allowed them to take advantage of commonality with NATO partners and the greater availability of smoothbore ammunition types such as high-explosive (HE), time-fuzed and canister shot. British rifled tanks have been limited to two ammunition types: a kinetic energy penetrator and HESH.

HESH rounds are still carried today by armoured engineer vehicles; they are typically intended for use against fortifications rather than armoured fighting vehicles. A 165 mm HESH round is used by the United States Army for the main gun of the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle, an M60 tank equipped with a bulldozer blade. Similarly the British Centurion AVRE (Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers) was equipped with a short 165 mm gun solely for a 29 kg HESH shell.

That was not the HESH round. That was the FIN round & it penetrate the t-62 from the hull not from turrent, so you just can imagine what kind of energy it posses even after 5km travel.

Main problem is HEAT round, which dont give satisfactory performance via rifle-gun. But this is okey because better performance of other rounds.




FIN round perform much better in rifle-gun. Extra spinning give it much more accuracy & power punch. What you illustrate here is just illusion about rifle-gun. HEAT is real problem for rifle-gun. HESH are good in smoothbore but give better performance in rifle-gun.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/165977-rifled-gun-arjun-tank-mistake.html

 

[ANPP]

^^^^
pure wiki stuf but good. Even dont have any reference.

All country still use HESH round in their MBT but not in anti tank role.

 

[hurt]

PLZ see whats is realy MBT

 

[Teeta]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/95660-arjun-mark-ii-israeli-view-must-read.html

This is one childish thread. I want the "document" of "Israeli review" of this tank.

What a joke! Indians are such delusional people.....

 

[Teeta]

@A-5

Arjun's velocity for HEAT rounds itself is 1650m/s !! That of APFSDS rounds in significantly greater.

Where is the source that Arjun's muzzle velocity is 1650m/s for HEAT rounds?

What is the muzzle-velocity of Arjun for APFSDS rounds?

Reply with credible source.

According to official DRDO site, Arjun's muzzle velocity is 1650m/s , which is inferior to Al Khalid-1's muzzle velocity...

I know PDF professional members saying AK's off-road speed with torsion-bar suspension cannot
be more than 25 kmph.

What "professional" members say that Al Khalid-1's offroad speed would be 25 km/h? You are a joke. lol...

Al-Khalid carried only 39 rounds of ammo, what fool told you that it carries 49 ?

We are talking about Al Khalid-1, idiot.

ARJUN carries 39 when using blast-proff canisters (something AK lacks), when carrying them plain (like AK), it can carry
44 rounds. Since when did 39 become a larger no. than 44?

Who told you that Al Khalid-1 lacks blast-proof canisters? Stop pulling stuff out of your arse...

Rifled guns are harder to make than smoothbores. The one for Arjun M2 gives more velocity and now
has better FCS, therefore.

Arjun-2 isn't here yet. It will be compared with Pakistan's Al Khalid-II. As of now, Al Khalid-1 is superior to Arjun-1...

Licensing a chinese gun and assembling it in-house doesn't make it pakistani. But you wanna believe thats
its indigenous pakistani stuff. go ahead and live in that delusion.

Source that China-Pakistan signed an agreement of license production of Chinese gun in Pakistan? That would be easy to find, no?

India has built the rifled 120mm gun from scratch

No one cares....

 

[The A-5]

@A-5

Where is the source that Arjun's muzzle velocity is 1650m/s for HEAT rounds?

What is the muzzle-velocity of Arjun for APFSDS rounds?

Reply with credible source.

According to official DRDO site, Arjun's muzzle velocity is 1650m/s , which is inferior to Al Khalid-1's muzzle velocity...



What "professional" members say that Al Khalid-1's offroad speed would be 25 km/h? You are a joke. lol...






We are talking about Al Khalid-1, idiot.




Who told you that Al Khalid-1 lacks blast-proof canisters? Stop pulling stuff out of your arse...



Arjun-2 isn't here yet. It will be compared with Pakistan's Al Khalid-II. As of now, Al Khalid-1 is superior to Arjun-1...



Source that China-Pakistan signed an agreement of license production of Chinese gun in Pakistan? That would be easy to find, no?



No one cares....

1650m/s figure was revealed before Arjun Mk-1 received APFSDS rounds, as I've enquired at my sources this velocity is for a 120mm HEAT round. The APFSDS velocity, although stated at 2,250m/s is not confirmed by any official source so I've decided to wait for things to fall into place from reliable sources before quoting APFSDS velocity.

Haven't you heard of @zraver PDF's tank expert.

Al-Khalid, al-khalid-1 and al-khalid-2 So many stupid versions for this 1970s hull? Are those versions been financed for development yet? Give me some good sources for that?

A typical gun barrel, let it be of 120mm or 125mm, fires APFSDS rounds at much higher velocity than a normal HEAT, HESH , or HEFRAG rounds.

the entire tank called AK/AK-1 is derived from original chinese design MBT-2000 with Ukrainian engine and is assembled in pakistan under license and you want proof to say the 125mm gun is build with license?

and btw, the joint contract for making Al-Khalid-1 was signed only in November 2012,
thats just 2 months ago!!

Source: -
Pakistan, China sign contract for making Al-Khalid-1 tank

And you say Arjun Mk-2 isn't here yet LOL, has al-khalid-1 been developed and put into service in just 2 months??
Reality is, Al-kahlid-1 isn't here yet either. Only the Al-Khalid.

So stop you're stupid Al khalid-1 v/s Arjun Mk-1 comparison, cuz AK-1 isn't in service yet while Arjun Mk-1 has been in active service for years and Mk-2 is undergoing trials right now.

 

[hurt]

the joint contract for making Al-Khalid-1 was signed only in November 2012,
thats just 2 months ago!!

Source: -
Pakistan, China sign contract for making Al-Khalid-1 tank

And you say Arjun Mk-2 isn't here yet LOL, has al-khalid-1 been developed and put into service in just 2 months??
Reality is, Al-kahlid-1 isn't here yet either. Only the Al-Khalid.

So stop you're stupid Al khalid-1 v/s Arjun Mk-1 comparison, cuz AK-1 isn't in service yet while Arjun Mk-1 has been in active service for years and Mk-2 is undergoing trials right now.

"manufacturing the Al-Khalid-I tank" is mean that been developed.

maybe He was wrong about tpye name but Al khalid is better than Arjun Mk-1 is a truth.

 

[The A-5]

Everyone believes what they want to believe