Persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan contradicts the teachings of Islam

[Hamza913]

Listen, to all you guys thinking Qadiyanis are Muslim, I'm going to tell you why that's sadly not the case. I welcome anyone who disagrees to try and shift my stance, but I doubt that will happen (it will most likely be the other way around when you read these facts):

1. Ghulam Ahmad (founder of the Qadiyani movement) was known among his followers to be unstable and dependent on drugs. Drugs are forbidden in Islam unless they are used for medical purposes.

2. Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as a caller to Islam so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). This clearly shows he is a confirmed liar. Another thing to note is that one of the main things that makes you a Muslim (among other things) is that you believe in no God but Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is his messenger and the final prophet. He just broke that crucial rule.

3. The Qadiyanis believe that Allah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse. They have essentially given him human qualities, a huge sin in Islam and not allowed. In Islam, it's believed that Allah is a far superior being with no human qualities as he is not human. He cannot make mistakes, he's perfect. You might be curious as to why Allah is referred to as a male? Well that's just because calling the creator of reality "it" would sound rather rude don't you think? And referring to Allah as a female can result in things I'd rather not talk about but I'm sure your minds can figure out.

4. The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets. Again, that's against the teachings of Islam. Just open a Quran to find out.

5. They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Quran. Yet again, against Islam as Islam states that nothing can match the Quran, and that Islam was complete when Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) revealed it.

6. They called for the abolition of violence and called for blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority”. This is directly against the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) as he would always encourage to fight against injustice.


There are so many other things I could mention, but unless people want a thread for this I won't include everything I can think of.

Also, many Qadiyanis themselves view every Muslim as a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiyani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiyani is also a Kaafir. Their leader Ghulam Ahmad also stated the same thing. So why can't we do the same?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Listen, to all you guys thinking Qadiyanis are Muslim,

Jinnah refused to declare Ahmadis Non-Muslim and resisted tooth and nail the pressure that brought upon him to turn them out of the Muslim League.

“Ahmadis are Muslims, If They Say They are Muslims and No One, Not Even the Sovereign Legislature, has the Right to Say Otherwise." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 05 May 1944.

 

[SQ8]

Listen, to all you guys thinking Qadiyanis are Muslim, I'm going to tell you why that's sadly not the case. I welcome anyone who disagrees to try and shift my stance, but I doubt that will happen (it will most likely be the other way around when you read these facts):

1. Ghulam Ahmad (founder of the Qadiyani movement) was known among his followers to be unstable and dependent on drugs. Drugs are forbidden in Islam unless they are used for medical purposes.

2. Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as a caller to Islam so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). This clearly shows he is a confirmed liar. Another thing to note is that one of the main things that makes you a Muslim (among other things) is that you believe in no God but Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is his messenger and the final prophet. He just broke that crucial rule.

3. The Qadiyanis believe that Allah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse. They have essentially given him human qualities, a huge sin in Islam and not allowed. In Islam, it's believed that Allah is a far superior being with no human qualities as he is not human. He cannot make mistakes, he's perfect. You might be curious as to why Allah is referred to as a male? Well that's just because calling the creator of reality "it" would sound rather rude don't you think? And referring to Allah as a female can result in things I'd rather not talk about but I'm sure your minds can figure out.

4. The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets. Again, that's against the teachings of Islam. Just open a Quran to find out.

5. They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Quran. Yet again, against Islam as Islam states that nothing can match the Quran, and that Islam was complete when Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) revealed it.

6. They called for the abolition of violence and called for blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority”. This is directly against the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) as he would always encourage to fight against injustice.


There are so many other things I could mention, but unless people want a thread for this I won't include everything I can think of.

Also, many Qadiyanis themselves view every Muslim as a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiyani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiyani is also a Kaafir. Their leader Ghulam Ahmad also stated the same thing. So why can't we do the same?

1. Pure speculation
2. Everything except proclaiming prophethood is permissible. The rest seems like a copy paste rhetoric, mirza Qadiyani was a fairly respectable scholar during his early forays.
3.please provide proof, that just you parroting someone
4. The one and only matter of dispute that the Qadiyanis need to clarify in order to end the state law against them.
5&6 are also speculaion and mere rhetoric that is irrelevant to the core issue in 4.

 

[Hyde]

Listen, to all you guys thinking Qadiyanis are Muslim, I'm going to tell you why that's sadly not the case. I welcome anyone who disagrees to try and shift my stance, but I doubt that will happen (it will most likely be the other way around when you read these facts):

1. Ghulam Ahmad (founder of the Qadiyani movement) was known among his followers to be unstable and dependent on drugs. Drugs are forbidden in Islam unless they are used for medical purposes.

2. Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as a caller to Islam so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). This clearly shows he is a confirmed liar. Another thing to note is that one of the main things that makes you a Muslim (among other things) is that you believe in no God but Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is his messenger and the final prophet. He just broke that crucial rule.

3. The Qadiyanis believe that Allah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse. They have essentially given him human qualities, a huge sin in Islam and not allowed. In Islam, it's believed that Allah is a far superior being with no human qualities as he is not human. He cannot make mistakes, he's perfect. You might be curious as to why Allah is referred to as a male? Well that's just because calling the creator of reality "it" would sound rather rude don't you think? And referring to Allah as a female can result in things I'd rather not talk about but I'm sure your minds can figure out.

4. The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets. Again, that's against the teachings of Islam. Just open a Quran to find out.

5. They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Quran. Yet again, against Islam as Islam states that nothing can match the Quran, and that Islam was complete when Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) revealed it.

6. They called for the abolition of violence and called for blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority”. This is directly against the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) as he would always encourage to fight against injustice.


There are so many other things I could mention, but unless people want a thread for this I won't include everything I can think of.

Also, many Qadiyanis themselves view every Muslim as a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiyani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiyani is also a Kaafir. Their leader Ghulam Ahmad also stated the same thing. So why can't we do the same?

One of my best friend from school age is a Qadiyani, his elder brother is a scholar and he himself is doing service for the people of his religion. I have had countless debate with the people of this faith on PDF and other places and never ever in my life anybody claimed that you said in point number 3.

I hope you have not made up from your brain today as anything that is not truth, how beautiful you decorate, remains a lie.

----

I have been quite clear over the subject that if we talk about religion, they are as much Muslim as Muslims are Christians. Because the only difference between Christianity and Islam is that they refuse to believe in Prophet Muhammad S.A.W whilst we believe in Jesus. They same difference is between Muslims and Qadiyanis that they believe in another Prophet whilst we believe Prophet Muhammad S.A.W being the last of Prophets. Now there are different sects already in Qadiyani religion and some of them even believe in finalhood of Prophet but there are other differences that takes them outside the defined boundary of Islam.

Tomorrow if someone says to me that he believes in my religion but at the same time he believes in idol worshipping then I would doubt his faith that if you believe in my religion then my religion forbids from Idol worshipping so how can you worship idols at the same time and whatever justification he comes up with will not be acceptable as he cannot set his feet in the both boats. It is also applicable for the religion called Qadiyanis that whatever defined boundaries are there, if you breach the boundary and insist that they believe in my faith with some additions, it doesn't represent my faith, they didn't decide to choose a new name for religion so people take them under the fold of Islam.

Having said that, I also believe any kind of persecutation is unfair and inhuman and they have 100% same rights as any Pakistani. I may disagree with him for belonging to different religion but it doesn't mean he is no longer a Pakistani and have less rights compared to me. Its not possible and should be given same rights as any Pakistani with equal freedom to preach his religion and stand as a Prime Minister. It doesn't matter whehther he worships stone or prostitute, whether he worships tree or rain.. for as long as he is loyal to the nation, he is son of the soil and should be treated equally.

Peace

 

[The Sandman]

4. The one and only matter of dispute that the Qadiyanis need to clarify in order to end the state law against them.

They won't be able to he was full of contradictions.

"I am the Muhammad in the qalima "La ilaha il-lal-la ho Muhammad ur rasool Allah"
(Ek Ghalti ka izala..Page 4Rohani Khazain..vol 18...Page 207)"

While Quran says.
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." Chapter 33, Ayat no 40.

3. The Qadiyanis believe that Allah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse. They have essentially given him human qualities, a huge sin in Islam and not allowed. In Islam, it's believed that Allah is a far superior being with no human qualities as he is not human. He cannot make mistakes, he's perfect. You might be curious as to why Allah is referred to as a male? Well that's just because calling the creator of reality "it" would sound rather rude don't you think? And referring to Allah as a female can result in things I'd rather not talk about but I'm sure your minds can figure out.

That really is first time i am hearing this you need to provide a legit source on this it's a really big claim.

 

[SQ8]

They won't be able to he was full of contradictions.

"I am the Muhammad in the qalima "La ilaha il-lal-la ho Muhammad ur rasool Allah"
(Ek Ghalti ka izala..Page 4Rohani Khazain..vol 18...Page 207)"

That is for them to decide, not you or me. Their beliefs essentially dictate the law.
I am for the law to be amended to exclude the term Qadiyani or Ahmedi and rather proclaim it as universal. Anyone who does not recognize the finality of the Prophet Mohammad ibn Abdullah Ibn Abdul Mutallib cannot be claimed a Muslim.
The Qadiyanis are sadly singled out in this manner while MANY such groups exist within Pakistan.

Jinnah refused to declare Ahmadis Non-Muslim and resisted tooth and nail the pressure that brought upon him to turn them out of the Muslim League.

“Ahmadis are Muslims, If They Say They are Muslims and No One, Not Even the Sovereign Legislature, has the Right to Say Otherwise." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 05 May 1944.

He also supported Hindi Muslim unity at one point. His views changed throughout as his knowledge of the matter did.

 

[The Sandman]

Everything except proclaiming prophethood is permissible

"The Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wassalm has informed us: The true Mahdi will fill the world with justice and equality and the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him (Musnad Ahmad)."

The Promised Messiah’s name is ‘Isa (A.S) and his mothers name was Maryam.
But these signs tells us that he was neither a Messiah nor Imam Mahdi.

 

[M. Sarmad]

He also supported Hindi Muslim unity at one point. His views changed throughout as his knowledge of the matter did.

But he never changed his views about Ahmadis .. Did he ?

. Anyone who does not recognize the finality of the Prophet Mohammad ibn Abdullah Ibn Abdul Mutallib cannot be claimed a Muslim.

That's an opinion ... Opinion of the majority maybe .. But still an opinion only

 

[The Sandman]

But he never changed his views about Ahmadis .. Did he ?

But his views doesn't make them Muslims do they?

That's an opinion ... Opinion of the majority maybe .. But still an opinion only

That is not an opinion why don't you understand it has been proven through Quran and Hadith.

 

[Hamza913]

They won't be able to he was full of contradictions.

"I am the Muhammad in the qalima "La ilaha il-lal-la ho Muhammad ur rasool Allah"
(Ek Ghalti ka izala..Page 4Rohani Khazain..vol 18...Page 207)"

While Quran says.
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." Chapter 33, Ayat no 40.

That really is first time i am hearing this you need to provide a legit source on this it's a really big claim.

https://islamqa.info/en/4060

Keep in mind not all of them will have these beliefs, but this is what their movement dictates and many of them do hold these beliefs.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

But he never changed his views about Ahmadis .. Did he ?

His views regarding Qadyanis can be judged when Zafarullah refused to pray his funeral prayer.

 

[Hamza913]

One of my best friend from school age is a Qadiyani, his elder brother is a scholar and he himself is doing service for the people of his religion. I have had countless debate with the people of this faith on PDF and other places and never ever in my life anybody claimed that you said in point number 3.

I hope you have not made up from your brain today as anything that is not truth, how beautiful you decorate, remains a lie.

----

I have been quite clear over the subject that if we talk about religion, they are as much Muslim as Muslims are Christians. Because the only difference between Christianity and Islam is that they refuse to believe in Prophet Muhammad S.A.W whilst we believe in Jesus. They same difference is between Muslims and Qadiyanis that they believe in another Prophet whilst we believe Prophet Muhammad S.A.W being the last of Prophets. Now there are different sects already in Qadiyani religion and some of them even believe in finalhood of Prophet but there are other differences that takes them outside the defined boundary of Islam.

Tomorrow if someone says to me that he believes in my religion but at the same time he believes in idol worshipping then I would doubt his faith that if you believe in my religion then my religion forbids from Idol worshipping so how can you worship idols at the same time and whatever justification he comes up with will not be acceptable as he cannot set his feet in the both boats. It is also applicable for the religion called Qadiyanis that whatever defined boundaries are there, if you breach the boundary and insist that they believe in my faith with some additions, it doesn't represent my faith, they didn't decide to choose a new name for religion so people take them under the fold of Islam.

Having said that, I also believe any kind of persecutation is unfair and inhuman and they have 100% same rights as any Pakistani. I may disagree with him for belonging to different religion but it doesn't mean he is no longer a Pakistani and have less rights compared to me. Its not possible and should be given same rights as any Pakistani with equal freedom to preach his religion and stand as a Prime Minister. It doesn't matter whehther he worships stone or prostitute, whether he worships tree or rain.. for as long as he is loyal to the nation, he is son of the soil and should be treated equally.

Peace

I didn't make up anything, see my earlier reply to another member about the 3rd point.

Yes they shouldn't be persecuted, but when it comes to who can lead a Muslim majority nation, only a Muslim can do that. Non Muslims won't have the best interests of Muslims at heart.

 

[SQ8]

But he never changed his views about Ahmadis .. Did he ?



That's an opinion ... Opinion of the majority maybe .. But still an opinion only

That is because he died within three years of that. Perhaps you can get the opinion of dead men, must be a seer thing.

Not an opinion, it is clear in the Quran for Khatim-an _nabeen. Please provide proof otherwise or leave be.

That is not an opinion why don't you understand it has been proven through Quran and Hadith.

Ask them for proof, or report for parroting; that is the way to confront such members.

 

[M. Sarmad]

That is not an opinion why don't you understand it has been proven through Quran and Hadith.

No, it has not been, and cannot be proven through the Holy Quran .. Ahmadis do not reject the Holy Quran (or any verse).. They just have a different interpretation of a term used in the Holy Quran... Please read the Holy Quran yourself before making such claims.

 

[SQ8]

"The Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wassalm has informed us: The true Mahdi will fill the world with justice and equality and the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him (Musnad Ahmad)."

The Promised Messiah’s name is ‘Isa (A.S) and his mothers name was Maryam.
But these signs tells us that he was neither a Messiah nor Imam Mahdi.

Hadiath are always debatable and they do need revisiting in my opinion, a ijtehad to reasses all of the Musnads for their authenticity.

There have been many people who have proclaimed being the Mahdi and many were respected folk who wished to kindle the idea of reform rather than any divine proclamation.