Permanent UNSC Seat for India

[roadrunner]

Next, India has the 2nd largest population (soon to be 1) and 4th largest economy on PPP basis. Is it justified to deny such a large portion their right to representation. Frankly, as you suggested if the present members fail to see the emerging reality and do not reform the UN would automatically become irrelevant just like the League of Nations

I'm all for India getting a permanent seat in the UN eventually, but only after it learns to follow the resolutions that the UN agrees upon.

Else accepting India would be like accepting an international pariah.

 

[digitaltiger]

Everyone knows, and western states have said directly, that Indian Muslims are discrminated against.


Dear Friend,

There are nearly 52 Muslim countries. Show one Muslim country which provides Haj subsidy.

Show one Muslim country where Hindus are extended the special rights that Muslims are accorded in India?

Show one country where the 85% majority craves for the indulgence of the 15% minority.

Show one Muslim country, which has a Non-Muslim as its President or Prime Minister.

Show one Mullah or Maulvi who has declared a 'fatwa' against terrorists.

Hindu-majority Maharashtra, Bihar, Kerala, Pondicherry , etc. have in the past elected Muslims as CM’s, …..
Can you ever imagine a Hindu becoming the CM of Muslim - majority J&K or Pakistan? (How can you forget The HC judge of Hindu religon being thrown out of court).

In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in Pakistan was about 24% ….Today it is not even 1%.

In 1947, the Hindu population in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) was 30% …. Today it is about 7%.

In contrast, in India, Muslim population has gone up from 10.4% in 1951 to about 14% today;
…whereas Hindu population has come down from 87.2% in 1951 to 85% in 1991.
Do you still think that Hindus are fundamentalists?

and they supress Musilms? India is not land of only Hindus or Sikhs but of all who are born in India.

 

[roadrunner]

In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in Pakistan was about 24% ….Today it is not even 1%.

^^This is a perfect example of the hate propaganda Hindus are fed in India by their radical government.

Pakistan never had a Hindu population of 24%. Not only at Partition, but EVER.

 

[badguy2000]

How strong was China in 1945? Heck I guess the UN wanted Taiwan as a member and not the PRC initially.

Second, it is not just about hard power (even though India is not "still quite weaker") there. It is about representing a sixth of humanity. What is UN'r credibility when it doesn't represent that?

I know China wants a unipolar Asia. It is going to fail in that goal.

There should be at least 3-4 permanent members from Asia to maintain balance.

frankly speaking, China in 1945 indeed was not qualitified to own veto,if measured by real power and influence.

It was USA that pushed CHina into the senior club of vetos.

 

[badguy2000]

Totally agree about booting both UK and France from the UN permanent membership and instead having 1 EU membership which will also take care of Germany and Italy.

Second is the question of power...is the UNSC a place to represent hard power so that their writ can rule over the world? You can see how USA (and also others) misuse their veto for selfish purposes. I would suggest doing away with the veto altogether.

Next, India has the 2nd largest population (soon to be 1) and 4th largest economy on PPP basis. Is it justified to deny such a large portion their right to representation. Frankly, as you suggested if the present members fail to see the emerging reality and do not reform the UN would automatically become irrelevant just like the League of Nations

1. Population can not talk much.
China and India always had largest population before WW II.But before WW II, India was completely conquered by UK and CHina was semi-colony.

2. PPP can not talk much either.
PPP is not proper to measure states' economy power,but to people's life quality.

3. My suggestion is that the current UN structure is not perfect,but still better than the structure that you Indians suggest.
Today, a expansion of vetos,which is suggested by Indian,will just cause more inefficiency of UN.
The Best way to reform UNSC is to increase a permanent member without veto.

 

[badguy2000]

1.None of Big 5 wants to delute their vested privileges. Their support to India's bid are actually just Perfunctory or civilities to India.
All they know that Italy,S.Korea,Pakistan and Mexico are already enough to suspend India's bid forever. So they needn't jump out to offend India in public at all.


2.If India could really industrialize and modernize itself,then India would really deseve veto.
But now, I don't think India has find a right way to industrialize itself.


3. the real difference between China and India is that: "China is a developing semi-industrialized country while India is still a developing agricultural country"

 

[Vinod2070]

^^This is a perfect example of the hate propaganda Hindus are fed in India by their radical government.

Pakistan never had a Hindu population of 24%. Not only at Partition, but EVER.

You are right.

It was 100% before the invasions and conversions.

 

[roadrunner]

You are right.

It was 100% before the invasions and conversions.

Could be in your dream, I suppose.

 

[Ashoka & Akbar the greats]

PS seat at SC
India will definitely get a parmanent seat at the SC in the next 10 years roughly. For those who think India is weak, etc are just playing into the rethoric of a lack of global politiking. Yes China is ahead of India today, but need to be looked at in perspective. In the 50's we were on par across various dimensions however in the 60's the chinese started to slightly forge ahead, and thier so called communistic liberization took place in the 70's. India played with forms of socialism till forced in early 90's under Dr. Manmohan singh opened up the markets & has seen the benefits in the stock markets, securities, local small scale businesses & a technological upgradation never seen before. So once again we compare India & Chine. Well frankly working in the corporate sector and having traveled to China quite a few times, I can say that yes China is ahead, however the gap is closing "fast". The difference is that its coming not driven by the govt but by the people. In any case the gap has narrowed from 25 yrs to less than 10 yrs now.
So what will happen in the next 10 yrs:
Indias:
- Economy will grow to become the 4 largest
- Military modernization with over $50 billion spending will place it as smaller than Chinese forces but a steps ahead in sophistication specially in areas of Naval and airforce.
- Large and 2nd only to US scientist and engineering work force
- Largest workforce less than 35 yrs: ambitous and ready to take the world
- Industrial capacity that will go across borders: Indian companies like the TATA's own CORUS (5TH LARGEST STEEL CO IN THE WORLD), they build from the Nano (cheapest $2500 car to the owning the Jaguars $250,000), Reliance is building the worlds largest petro refinaries etc etc.
- Very importantly India's global diaspora will assert itself for not only the country where they grew up or studied but for mother India. From politicians like Bobby Jindal, to CNN anchir cheif medical correspondent Gupta to the heads of global ceo Indra Nooyi, CISCI CTO Padamsee warrior to Citibank global ceo Vikram Pandit, these are drop in a ocean if Indians who are rising to the top in the US, UK, Canada and many other counrties.
- All of these and the support of the BRIC countries to get Brazil, South Africa and India with support of the US, Japan etc will get us on the SC.

 

[dbc]

The UN is a dysfunctional post World War II relic we need a responsive world body where all countries have equal representation and no veto. I am for India getting veto rights along with everyone else ..this will hasten the demise of the UN.

 

[Vinod2070]

Could be in your dream, I suppose.

What was Raja Dahir of Sindh? What was the King Purushottam (Puru) who took on Alexander?

 

[Fennecus]

Until India stops hosting the Dalai Lama and his cronies and we solve the border dispute, do not count on China's support.

 

[Vinod2070]

1.None of Big 5 wants to delute their vested privileges. Their support to India's bid are actually just Perfunctory or civilities to India.
All they know that Italy,S.Korea,Pakistan and Mexico are already enough to suspend India's bid forever. So they needn't jump out to offend India in public at all.


2.If India could really industrialize and modernize itself,then India would really deseve veto.
But now, I don't think India has find a right way to industrialize itself.


3. the real difference between China and India is that: "China is a developing semi-industrialized country while India is still a developing agricultural country"

They may not want to "delute their vested privileges". They will be forced to do it if the privileges that they enjoy become meaningless as the UN becomes totally irrelevant!

No one is asking for any charity here. If India and the other countries like Japan, Brazil etc. are not members of UN, it's a problem for the UN's credibility more than for these countries.

Already it has become more or less meaningless with even the US bypassing it when it suits them.

 

[badguy2000]

PS seat at SC
India will definitely get a parmanent seat at the SC in the next 10 years roughly. For those who think India is weak, etc are just playing into the rethoric of a lack of global politiking. Yes China is ahead of India today, but need to be looked at in perspective. In the 50's we were on par across various dimensions however in the 60's the chinese started to slightly forge ahead, and thier so called communistic liberization took place in the 70's. India played with forms of socialism till forced in early 90's under Dr. Manmohan singh opened up the markets & has seen the benefits in the stock markets, securities, local small scale businesses & a technological upgradation never seen before. So once again we compare India & Chine. Well frankly working in the corporate sector and having traveled to China quite a few times, I can say that yes China is ahead, however the gap is closing "fast". The difference is that its coming not driven by the govt but by the people. In any case the gap has narrowed from 25 yrs to less than 10 yrs now.
So what will happen in the next 10 yrs:
Indias:
- Economy will grow to become the 4 largest
- Military modernization with over $50 billion spending will place it as smaller than Chinese forces but a steps ahead in sophistication specially in areas of Naval and airforce.
- Large and 2nd only to US scientist and engineering work force
- Largest workforce less than 35 yrs: ambitous and ready to take the world
- Industrial capacity that will go across borders: Indian companies like the TATA's own CORUS (5TH LARGEST STEEL CO IN THE WORLD), they build from the Nano (cheapest $2500 car to the owning the Jaguars $250,000), Reliance is building the worlds largest petro refinaries etc etc.
- Very importantly India's global diaspora will assert itself for not only the country where they grew up or studied but for mother India. From politicians like Bobby Jindal, to CNN anchir cheif medical correspondent Gupta to the heads of global ceo Indra Nooyi, CISCI CTO Padamsee warrior to Citibank global ceo Vikram Pandit, these are drop in a ocean if Indians who are rising to the top in the US, UK, Canada and many other counrties.
- All of these and the support of the BRIC countries to get Brazil, South Africa and India with support of the US, Japan etc will get us on the SC.

1.Even Before CHina opened its door in 1979, CHina had had much better HDI,literate,longer expectacy life than India.
Frankly speaking, even at that time, CHinese cities were much clearner than Indian cities today.


2. I don't think that the gap is closing "fast" between CHina and India.
Instead, ours kids will find the gap will be wider than today when they grow up.

For example, China's nominal GDP in 2008 should be 4.4 trillion USD, almost 4 times more than India's 1+ trillion.
In 2015, CHina's nominal GDP is going to 14 trillion USD, and its per nominal GDP may surpass 10000 USD. At that time, CHina would almost finish its industrialization .
but can you tell me what India will be like in 2015?


3. India's problem is that India still has not found a right way to industrialize itself.
Furthermore ,some indian even naively believe that India can skip " industrialization" and jump directly into "post-Industrialization" with IT a rocket.

 

[roadrunner]

I think India is a long way off China also.

It does have numbers on its side, and it'll be a world player, but I doubt it'll ever reach the height that China will.

It's evident the US sees China as the bigger threat to its domination. India is sort of like a useful tool (much like Pakistan was against the Soviets).