What's new

Pathankot attack aimed at probing Modi govt's red lines: C Christine Fair

SrNair

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
16,675
Reaction score
-27
Country
India
Location
India
e Pathankot attack is not a spontaneous response to recent developments; it is a manifestation of Pakistan’s national security strategy to pursue its revisionist agenda against India, says C Christine Fair, author of Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army’s Way of War, and an associate professor in the Peace and Security Studies Programme at Georgetown University’s Edmund A Walsh School of Foreign Service. Fair, who earlier served as a political officer to the UN Assistance Mission to Afghanistan in Kabul, tells Bhaswar Kumar in a telephonic interview that there is a consensus within the Indian security establishment that India lacks the offensive capability to defeat Pakistan in a short war.

The January 2 attack on an Indian Air Force base in Pathankot was allegedly carried out by Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) operatives. What are the dynamics between organisations like JeM and Pakistan’s military and civilian establishments?

Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) set up JeM as a competitor to the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which the ISI had formed earlier. Before the formation of JeM, three Pakistani terrorists – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood Azhar – were released by Indian authorities in return for hostages taken during the hijacking of the Indian Airlines flight IC-814 in December 1999. Azhar and the two other terrorists, upon their release in Kandahar, were ferried to Pakistan under ISI escort. Within a few weeks, Azhar announced the formation of JeM in Karachi.

LeT and JeM are ideologically distinct organisations. JeM, like the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, is Deobandi; LeT is Ahle Hadees. Besides, JeM generally conducts suicide attacks, while LeT conducts high-risk missions where the goal is not to die but its operatives would still rather die than be taken captives.

These terrorist groups have an army major assigned to them. It is the majors’ responsibility to ensure the groups’ operatives are trained and they get the required resources. A major can, for example, authorise a small-level attack in Kashmir against an Indian army unit — an offensive that does not have major strategic implications. On the other hand, every attack outside of Kashmir has to have the army chief’s imprimatur, given the likely strategic implications — after all, if the Americans get upset and hold up coalition support funding, it is the army chief who will have to answer.

The Pathankot attack came within a week of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Lahore and the resumption of talks with Pakistan. Have the terrorists and their handlers achieved their goal by creating a hurdle for the peace process?

If the attack is seen as an attempt to derail the nascent peace process between the two countries, it might be a misreading of the way in which Pakistan employs its jihadi assets to secure its strategic interests in the region. The attack on the air base is not a spontaneous response to recent developments. It is simply the latest manifestation of the Pakistani national security strategy to pursue its revisionist agenda against India.

Pakistan has called PM Modi’s bluff. Despite all the rhetoric, there is a consensus within the Indian security establishment – at least among those who draw their conclusions from data instead of speaking from nationalist sentiment – that India lacks the offensive capability to defeat Pakistan in a short war. That is important because there will only be a short war between India and Pakistan, due to the presence of nuclear weapons on both sides, if the former responds to such a provocation.

They did it at Gurdaspur, too. The Gurdaspur attack was not in response to the meeting between Modi and Sharif in Ufa. The timing of the Gurdaspur attack is important; it occurred after the reported Indian raid in Myanmar against militants. You will remember the statements issued after the Myanmar raid, warning that all other neighbours of India harbouring terrorists would receive the same treatment. You will also remember the Pakistani response to these statements. Gurdaspur was really about calling the Indian government out on its statements and bravado after the Myanmar incident.

Both these attacks – Pathankot and Gurdaspur – were conducted in and around tier-III cities or small towns. Unlike an attack on a city like Mumbai or Delhi, which will cause a massive uproar and have a galvanising impact on the populace – the Parliament attack, for instance – these were carefully calibrated probes to continue to test India’s red lines. We need to see this in tandem with the attack on the Indian consulate in Mazar-e-Sharif. Pakistan has been testing India’s red lines within Indian territory and in Afghanistan.

When you say Pakistan has called the government’s bluff, are you referring to Pakistan’s civilian government or its military establishment?

The civilians are irrelevant in this case. This is all coming from the army. There is no “rogue” ISI, either. The ISI reports to the Pakistani army chief.

Don’t you think that the recently revived dialogue process is the only way forward?

India should not be talking to Pakistan at all. Pakistan says it has a legitimate claim on Kashmir, which it does not. The Indian Independence Act of 1947 allowed the princely states to decide their fate. India possesses Kashmir’s instrument of accession. The case of Junagarh and Hyderabad complicates the morality of India’s actions, but that is a different issue.

Pakistan could have made a claim for Junagarh at the UN but it has no claim over Kashmir. Pakistan also did not fulfil the first condition required for a plebiscite under the UN Security Council resolution on Kashmir. Of course, the Shimla agreement obviates that in any event.

As India continues to talk to Pakistan on the issue of Kashmir, it emboldens the Pakistanis and legitimises their narrative domestically. It fosters the belief among Pakistanis that their claim is entertained by India. The Pakistani army gets to tell its people that even the Indians know that they need to talk to us.

If Pakistan wants peace, it could have it by accepting the LoC as the formal border and desisting from sending terrorists across the border. By the way, that would technically be a concession from the Indian side since it has an instrument of accession for the whole of Kashmir. India should be willing to talk only when Pakistan is willing to ratify the LoC as the border.

Every time one of these attacks occurs, the benefit that Pakistan gets is that the international community calls for talks between India and Pakistan for resolving outstanding issues. In other words, the international community imposes a false equivalence between Pakistan and India. If you cannot punish Pakistan for its support to terrorist organisations, at least you can deprive it of any benefit.

The international community will have to change its talking points. If the international community, instead of calling for talks, says Pakistan needs to act like a responsible nuclear power that does not conduct proxy warfare against its neighbours, and that the changing of maps by bloodshed is not acceptable, Pakistan will be deprived of any benefit from such attacks.

According to reports, Nawaz Sharif has called PM Modi and assured him of action against the persons responsible…

This is absolute dramebaazi. Sharif is an irrelevant actor in these matters.

Aside from military funding and support, consider the fact that Hafiz Saeed’s Jamat-ud-Dawa (JuD), the rechristened LeT, gets money from the budget of Pakistani Punjab’s government, which is run by Sharif’s party. The government said it would run JuD’s educational establishments, so JuD has a line item in every Punjab provincial government budget.

Besides, JeM enjoys political cover from the two factions of the Jamiat ul-e-Islami.

How can India build an effective deterrence against this form of sub-conventional warfare?

I do not see too many options that India has. It has not made the investments it needs to ensure deterrence against such acts by way of offensive superiority on its international border. India’s current conventional posture on the international border is of defensive competence instead of offensive superiority.

Defence modernisation for such deterrence requires reconfiguring your current military assets, which are bulky and easily detectable, into smaller units that can be forward-deployed much more rapidly without the intelligence footprint that Pakistan can easily detect.

It is about personnel policies. India does not need a huge standing army for such purposes as much as it needs special operators to conduct hot-pursuit missions into Pakistani territory without detection. Currently, India does not have a Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) or “jointness” among the different branches of its armed forces for seamless interoperability. Pakistan does not suffer from these shortcomings; it has “jointness” and it essentially has a CDS in the form of its army chief. Most disturbingly, Pakistan’s position has been significantly bolstered by American military largesse.

Lastly, but most importantly, there needs to be the political will to use these assets as and when required.

This is not a bad time to be an Indian. Successive governments have come to understand that if you remain focused on not having a large confrontation with Pakistan, India’s economy will continue to grow. But, you can have this attitude only if you are willing to suffer several casualties in attacks from Pakistan every year.

We have seen a resurgence of JeM in the recent past...

JeM had been defunct for years after it split in December of 2001. Its leadership was divided over whether they should turn their guns on Pakistan for aiding the Americans in bringing down the Taliban. Azhar said he would not turn against Pakistan even as members of his organisation revolted and went on to join Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

Azhar was kept in protective custody for years and allowed to grow his empire in Bhawalpur. The thinking of ISI was that as long as people were loyal to Azhar they would not turn their guns on Pakistan.

As part of its strategy to combat TTP, the Pakistani army contacted TTP commanders and gave them a choice to go back and fight in Afghanistan; this coincided with the elections in Afghanistan. The other important part of the strategy was that the Pakistani army revivified JeM to draw back the original defectors from JeM and redirect them to India.

In a piece I had written for India Today in September last year, I predicted the next attack would probably be conducted by JeM, instead of LeT. My colleagues at the UN who had been monitoring Al Qaida and the Taliban informed me a year ago that the JeM cadre was amassing at the LoC between India and Pakistan.

The move to revivify JeM is very much part of the Pakistani army’s domestic security strategy.

Pathankot attack aimed at probing Modi govt's red lines: C Christine Fair | Business Standard News
 
India should not be talking to Pakistan at all. Pakistan says it has a legitimate claim on Kashmir, which it does not. The Indian Independence Act of 1947 allowed the princely states to decide their fate. India possesses Kashmir’s instrument of accession. The case of Junagarh and Hyderabad complicates the morality of India’s actions, but that is a different issue.

Pakistan could have made a claim for Junagarh at the UN but it has no claim over Kashmir. Pakistan also did not fulfil the first condition required for a plebiscite under the UN Security Council resolution on Kashmir. Of course, the Shimla agreement obviates that in any event.

As India continues to talk to Pakistan on the issue of Kashmir, it emboldens the Pakistanis and legitimises their narrative domestically. It fosters the belief among Pakistanis that their claim is entertained by India. The Pakistani army gets to tell its people that even the Indians know that they need to talk to us.

If Pakistan wants peace, it could have it by accepting the LoC as the formal border and desisting from sending terrorists across the border. By the way, that would technically be a concession from the Indian side since it has an instrument of accession for the whole of Kashmir. India should be willing to talk only when Pakistan is willing to ratify the LoC as the border.

Every time one of these attacks occurs, the benefit that Pakistan gets is that the international community calls for talks between India and Pakistan for resolving outstanding issues. In other words, the international community imposes a false equivalence between Pakistan and India. If you cannot punish Pakistan for its support to terrorist organisations, at least you can deprive it of any benefit.

The international community will have to change its talking points. If the international community, instead of calling for talks, says Pakistan needs to act like a responsible nuclear power that does not conduct proxy warfare against its neighbours, and that the changing of maps by bloodshed is not acceptable, Pakistan will be deprived of any benefit from such attacks.
This is what we Indians ,majority of us saying for long time .
These nation cant understand diplomacy .
This stupid NDA govt also did the same mistake of its predecessors .

We need sub conventional ,covert ops and perfect intelligence to counter them .
That is the only language that they can understand .We should invest for it heavily .

Shut down all relations with that nation if possible .We dont have to sacrifice our soldiers life for this neighbour.

@nair @Levina @Parul @MilSpec @SpArK @kurup and all other Indian members .
 
Last edited:
Shut down all relations with that nation if possible .We dont have to sacrifice our soldiers life for this stupid neighbour.
I am flummoxed as to how our govt should proceed.The civilian govt of Pakistan deserves a second chance-why not deviate from the usual path of halting peace talks??
But yes, I agree with what Christine Fair had to say. It's time for Doval to test his defensive-offense theory.
 
I am flummoxed as to how our govt should proceed.The civilian govt of Pakistan deserves a second chance-why not deviate from the usual path of halting peace talks??
But yes, I agree with what Christine Fair had to say. It's time for Doval to test his defensive-offense theory.


Rawalpindi GHQ will decide the LoC of civilian govt .
I support NDA but this was ridiculous .First they told us that they wont talk with Pakistan until they stop terrorism .Then they moved back ward from that policy .And now this .
We should have been engaged with that nation by keeping a low profile .Our ministers are good in PR and public boasting but cant back their claim with strong actions.We knows that they will continue good terrorists .So we should do something about it.
 
i wrote it before and writing it again the money and energy india spending againest pak in us they can solve theior tiolet issue which is more bigger than pthankot .
 
e Pathankot attack is not a spontaneous response to recent developments; it is a manifestation of Pakistan’s national security strategy to pursue its revisionist agenda against India, says C Christine Fair, author of Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army’s Way of War, and an associate professor in the Peace and Security Studies Programme at Georgetown University’s Edmund A Walsh School of Foreign Service. Fair, who earlier served as a political officer to the UN Assistance Mission to Afghanistan in Kabul, tells Bhaswar Kumar in a telephonic interview that there is a consensus within the Indian security establishment that India lacks the offensive capability to defeat Pakistan in a short war.

The January 2 attack on an Indian Air Force base in Pathankot was allegedly carried out by Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) operatives. What are the dynamics between organisations like JeM and Pakistan’s military and civilian establishments?

Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) set up JeM as a competitor to the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which the ISI had formed earlier. Before the formation of JeM, three Pakistani terrorists – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood Azhar – were released by Indian authorities in return for hostages taken during the hijacking of the Indian Airlines flight IC-814 in December 1999. Azhar and the two other terrorists, upon their release in Kandahar, were ferried to Pakistan under ISI escort. Within a few weeks, Azhar announced the formation of JeM in Karachi.

LeT and JeM are ideologically distinct organisations. JeM, like the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, is Deobandi; LeT is Ahle Hadees. Besides, JeM generally conducts suicide attacks, while LeT conducts high-risk missions where the goal is not to die but its operatives would still rather die than be taken captives.

These terrorist groups have an army major assigned to them. It is the majors’ responsibility to ensure the groups’ operatives are trained and they get the required resources. A major can, for example, authorise a small-level attack in Kashmir against an Indian army unit — an offensive that does not have major strategic implications. On the other hand, every attack outside of Kashmir has to have the army chief’s imprimatur, given the likely strategic implications — after all, if the Americans get upset and hold up coalition support funding, it is the army chief who will have to answer.

The Pathankot attack came within a week of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Lahore and the resumption of talks with Pakistan. Have the terrorists and their handlers achieved their goal by creating a hurdle for the peace process?

If the attack is seen as an attempt to derail the nascent peace process between the two countries, it might be a misreading of the way in which Pakistan employs its jihadi assets to secure its strategic interests in the region. The attack on the air base is not a spontaneous response to recent developments. It is simply the latest manifestation of the Pakistani national security strategy to pursue its revisionist agenda against India.

Pakistan has called PM Modi’s bluff. Despite all the rhetoric, there is a consensus within the Indian security establishment – at least among those who draw their conclusions from data instead of speaking from nationalist sentiment – that India lacks the offensive capability to defeat Pakistan in a short war. That is important because there will only be a short war between India and Pakistan, due to the presence of nuclear weapons on both sides, if the former responds to such a provocation.

They did it at Gurdaspur, too. The Gurdaspur attack was not in response to the meeting between Modi and Sharif in Ufa. The timing of the Gurdaspur attack is important; it occurred after the reported Indian raid in Myanmar against militants. You will remember the statements issued after the Myanmar raid, warning that all other neighbours of India harbouring terrorists would receive the same treatment. You will also remember the Pakistani response to these statements. Gurdaspur was really about calling the Indian government out on its statements and bravado after the Myanmar incident.

Both these attacks – Pathankot and Gurdaspur – were conducted in and around tier-III cities or small towns. Unlike an attack on a city like Mumbai or Delhi, which will cause a massive uproar and have a galvanising impact on the populace – the Parliament attack, for instance – these were carefully calibrated probes to continue to test India’s red lines. We need to see this in tandem with the attack on the Indian consulate in Mazar-e-Sharif. Pakistan has been testing India’s red lines within Indian territory and in Afghanistan.

When you say Pakistan has called the government’s bluff, are you referring to Pakistan’s civilian government or its military establishment?

The civilians are irrelevant in this case. This is all coming from the army. There is no “rogue” ISI, either. The ISI reports to the Pakistani army chief.

Don’t you think that the recently revived dialogue process is the only way forward?

India should not be talking to Pakistan at all. Pakistan says it has a legitimate claim on Kashmir, which it does not. The Indian Independence Act of 1947 allowed the princely states to decide their fate. India possesses Kashmir’s instrument of accession. The case of Junagarh and Hyderabad complicates the morality of India’s actions, but that is a different issue.

Pakistan could have made a claim for Junagarh at the UN but it has no claim over Kashmir. Pakistan also did not fulfil the first condition required for a plebiscite under the UN Security Council resolution on Kashmir. Of course, the Shimla agreement obviates that in any event.

As India continues to talk to Pakistan on the issue of Kashmir, it emboldens the Pakistanis and legitimises their narrative domestically. It fosters the belief among Pakistanis that their claim is entertained by India. The Pakistani army gets to tell its people that even the Indians know that they need to talk to us.

If Pakistan wants peace, it could have it by accepting the LoC as the formal border and desisting from sending terrorists across the border. By the way, that would technically be a concession from the Indian side since it has an instrument of accession for the whole of Kashmir. India should be willing to talk only when Pakistan is willing to ratify the LoC as the border.

Every time one of these attacks occurs, the benefit that Pakistan gets is that the international community calls for talks between India and Pakistan for resolving outstanding issues. In other words, the international community imposes a false equivalence between Pakistan and India. If you cannot punish Pakistan for its support to terrorist organisations, at least you can deprive it of any benefit.

The international community will have to change its talking points. If the international community, instead of calling for talks, says Pakistan needs to act like a responsible nuclear power that does not conduct proxy warfare against its neighbours, and that the changing of maps by bloodshed is not acceptable, Pakistan will be deprived of any benefit from such attacks.

According to reports, Nawaz Sharif has called PM Modi and assured him of action against the persons responsible…

This is absolute dramebaazi. Sharif is an irrelevant actor in these matters.

Aside from military funding and support, consider the fact that Hafiz Saeed’s Jamat-ud-Dawa (JuD), the rechristened LeT, gets money from the budget of Pakistani Punjab’s government, which is run by Sharif’s party. The government said it would run JuD’s educational establishments, so JuD has a line item in every Punjab provincial government budget.

Besides, JeM enjoys political cover from the two factions of the Jamiat ul-e-Islami.

How can India build an effective deterrence against this form of sub-conventional warfare?

I do not see too many options that India has. It has not made the investments it needs to ensure deterrence against such acts by way of offensive superiority on its international border. India’s current conventional posture on the international border is of defensive competence instead of offensive superiority.

Defence modernisation for such deterrence requires reconfiguring your current military assets, which are bulky and easily detectable, into smaller units that can be forward-deployed much more rapidly without the intelligence footprint that Pakistan can easily detect.

It is about personnel policies. India does not need a huge standing army for such purposes as much as it needs special operators to conduct hot-pursuit missions into Pakistani territory without detection. Currently, India does not have a Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) or “jointness” among the different branches of its armed forces for seamless interoperability. Pakistan does not suffer from these shortcomings; it has “jointness” and it essentially has a CDS in the form of its army chief. Most disturbingly, Pakistan’s position has been significantly bolstered by American military largesse.

Lastly, but most importantly, there needs to be the political will to use these assets as and when required.

This is not a bad time to be an Indian. Successive governments have come to understand that if you remain focused on not having a large confrontation with Pakistan, India’s economy will continue to grow. But, you can have this attitude only if you are willing to suffer several casualties in attacks from Pakistan every year.

We have seen a resurgence of JeM in the recent past...

JeM had been defunct for years after it split in December of 2001. Its leadership was divided over whether they should turn their guns on Pakistan for aiding the Americans in bringing down the Taliban. Azhar said he would not turn against Pakistan even as members of his organisation revolted and went on to join Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

Azhar was kept in protective custody for years and allowed to grow his empire in Bhawalpur. The thinking of ISI was that as long as people were loyal to Azhar they would not turn their guns on Pakistan.

As part of its strategy to combat TTP, the Pakistani army contacted TTP commanders and gave them a choice to go back and fight in Afghanistan; this coincided with the elections in Afghanistan. The other important part of the strategy was that the Pakistani army revivified JeM to draw back the original defectors from JeM and redirect them to India.

In a piece I had written for India Today in September last year, I predicted the next attack would probably be conducted by JeM, instead of LeT. My colleagues at the UN who had been monitoring Al Qaida and the Taliban informed me a year ago that the JeM cadre was amassing at the LoC between India and Pakistan.

The move to revivify JeM is very much part of the Pakistani army’s domestic security strategy.

Pathankot attack aimed at probing Modi govt's red lines: C Christine Fair | Business Standard News


There are times when I believe that having no fixed strategy is also a strategy .This was what defined that wily brahmin - P.V.Narasimha Rao's strategy vis a vis Pakistan during the hey days of terrorism in Kashmir.

While, he kept up the pressure on the terrorists in the valley thru aggressive measures by the army , he put up the pretense of dialogue before an increasingly hostile Clinton led US admin fronted by Pak's best friend & Asst Secretary of state - SA & CA - Ms.Robin Raphel & Foreign Secretary of the UK - Robin Cook in the Blair led Labour Govt & the BB & NS govt in Pak.

India, after nearly having defaulted in its BoP , undertook massive liberalisation and were experiencing a surge in economic growth while undergoing 3 huge national security issues simultaneously- the Punjab insurgency ( which was brutally put down by the Gill led PP with active support by Beant Singh - then Cong CM of Punjab ) , the Kashmir issue & the fallout of the disputed Babri structure demolition , all thru the tenures of PVN , Deve Gowda & Gujral led governments .

That was the back story .The strategy itself was deceptively simple, keep up the pretense of talk , while consolidating ones position in the valley, militarily , gaining the upper hand in C.I & preparing the ground work for resumption in civilian rule as & when the situation was conducive.

The Pakistanis were easily humoured & went about boasting to their constituencies about how they had cornered India & how India regularly consulted them , inviting them for talks , how the world's opinion was favouring resolution of the Kashmir issue & how it wasn't far before Kashmir fell like a ripe apple in their laps.

Successive administrations onwards from PVN have followed the same strategy with suitable variations tailored to meet the requirements of the hour.From the Gujral admin onwards till the end of the first tenure of MMS regime , it also involved dismantling of counter espionage operations across the border, which when the history of Ind Pak relations is written will feature prominently ( something which seems to draw opprobrium now from most quarters. But let's not forget this strategy was also adopted by Vajpayee & MMS at least during MMS's first tenure.)

It does make some sense now but a lot of sense then , when we were on the backfoot faced with myriad problems , loss of a political Godfather ( USSR) on the world stage, with little or no resources to fund our armed forces requirements , barely enough for CI & hence in no position to initiate hostilities .

The collateral damage incurred was considered acceptable as long as the economic juggernaut rolled on .Whatever , we're seeing today is but a variation of the same theme.

Knowing the bania , Modi is , I'm sure he won't mind if the Pak Army thinks they've cut him down to size , by a few spectacular attacks here & there while he strives to get the economy back on the fast track.
 
Last edited:
So it is congirmed,if Blair is yo believed, that india does not have capability to win a short war.
India shuld focus on that capability.
Pak should use this time to set house in order economically.
 
Not talking to Pakistan is good for Pakistan.
 
Agreed, but India did have some gems like IK Gujral who had India defanged in the name of peace. Christine's assessment is bang on target , Why would pakistan entertain India when we have no trump card ? Unless India counters Pakistan in a effective manner by supporting groups inimical to them they would not care about peace.

Afghanistan is actually a good partner who could be nourished to balance pakistan.


India needs to deal with pakistan military not its PM, he is a non-entity as far as India-Pak equation is concerned.
Problem is every time peace talks are initiated , Pak military flexes its muscle by initiating terror attacks. It is just a reminder that if you dont agree with us.....

Doval is a big mouth, nothing much will of him. Frankly spies shoud neither be seen nor be heard. Doval seems to compete with Modi on boasting. India should consider backing TTP & BLA.
If not atleast pay back pakistan by pumping in fake currency . Would be poetic justice to pay back using their own trick.:D


Thats a disease that indians have in general, we dont walk the talk so no body takes it seriously. Even Americans are wary in dealing with India , the opinion on India is just we keep blabbering & keep going in rounds. We seemed to be obsessed with ourselves. In India nothing is done out of consensus or planning. If there is a attack there will be an outcry and forgotten after a week. There are countries like Israel who are in worst situation than India but they do manage well.

Countering terrorism & managing pakistani shenanigans should be taken away from politicians and given to professionals who can be held accountable.

Not military but covert intel ops .

Something that Mossad did for 25 years after Munich massacre .
Fact we have stubborn bureaucrats to do that but our politicians are pathetic .Big mouth ,nothing solid in the ground .

I would say even if she was wrong in a lots of policies and implemention ,Indira was the only one that could show their place among nations .
Like you said thanks to that moronic IK Gujral we suffered a lots .In fact we cant blame Ajit Doval and PM Modi .Developing deep assets wold take year of effort and money .IK Gujral wasted all those decades of efforts.
You can understand the mentality of this failed neighbour when you check that Gujral rule .Gujral did all that for good intention and peace intitative but Pakistan cheated him.
That is why we saying we dont need any type of talks with these nation .Such an untrust worthy nation.
They only knows one language and from the day one after partition they were trying to justifiy their failed two nation theory and existence of that nation through that stupid language .
Indira proved what can we do if we also adopt that language .Now we should implement at least half of that language in our policy.

There are times when I believe that having no fixed strategy is also a strategy .This was what defined that wily brahmin - P.V.Narasimha Rao's strategy vis a vis Pakistan during the hey days of terrorism in Kashmir.

While, he kept up the pressure on the terrorists in the valley thru aggressive measures by the army , he put up the pretense of dialogue before an increasingly hostile Clinton led US admin fronted by Pak's best friend & Asst Secretary of state - SA & CA - Ms.Robin Raphel & Foreign Secretary of the UK - Robin Cook in the Blair led Labour Govt & the BB & NS govt in Pak.

India, after nearly having defaulted in its BoP , undertook massive liberalisation and were experiencing a surge in economic growth while undergoing 3 huge national security issues - the Punjab insurgency ( which was brutally put down by the Gill led PP with active support by Beant Singh - then Cong CM of Punjab ) , the Kashmir issue & the fallout of the disputed Babri structure demolition , was facing massive internal & external turmoil - all thru the PVN , Deve Gowda & Gujral led governments .

That was the back story .The strategy itself was deceptively simple, keep up the presence of talk , while consolidating ones position in the valley, militarily , gaining the upper hand in C.I & preparing the ground work for resumption in civilian rule as & when the situation was conducive.

The Pakistanis were easily humoured & went about boasting to their constituency about how they had cornered India & how India regularly consulted them , inviting them for talks , how the world's opinion was favouring resolution of the Kashmir issue & how it wasn't far before Kashmir fell like a ripe apple in their laps.

Successive administrations onwards from PVN have followed the same strategy with suitable variations tailored to meet the requirements of the hour.From the Gujral admin onwards till the end of the first tenure of MMS regime , it also involved dismantling of counter espionage operations across the border.

It does make some sense now but a lot of sense then , when we were on the backfoot faced with myriad problems , loss of a political Godfather ( USSR) on the world stage, with little or no resources to fund our armed forces requirements , barely enough for CI & hence in no position to initiate hostilities .

The collateral damage incurred was considered acceptable as long as the economic juggernaut rolled on .Whatever , we're seeing today is but a variation of the same theme.

Knowing the bania , Modi is , I'm sure he won't mind if the Pak Army thinks they've cut him down to size , by a few spectacular attacks here & there while he strives to get the economy back on the fast track.

But we successfully countered all those difficulties and now we have enough resources to do what ever we want.
Always give positive attitude to talks but pick all those good terrorists one by one .
 
Not military but covert intel ops .

Something that Mossad did for 25 years after Munich massacre .
Fact we have stubborn bureaucrats to do that but our politicians are pathetic .Big mouth ,nothing solid in the ground .
Yes Agreed, It needs political will and risk taking. The problem is that when govts are full of self indulging crony capitalists,secularists or corrupt ppl who are only interested in self indulgence rest of the state matters will take a back seat.

Instead of pathankot air base if some reliance refinery/big business was attacked then the vested interests would spring into action and made sure right message was sent. Political class has no responsibility or accountability they have nothing to lose. Unless we lose a war or some thing terrible happens India will not wake up from stupor.
 
But in proxy wars,Red lines are hard to determine as these are Covert wars not overt.
 
There is no use talking to Pakistan until it take action against India specific terrorists from it soil. Mumbai is still fresh...now Patankot
 
Last edited:
I think you guys aren't reading between the lines.There are no covert assets available to be deployed , neither do we have the resources to win a short war nor can we deploy strike teams across as a punitive measure.

The Pak Army's simultaneous operations in FATA & across their country against the TTP , LeJ , MQM , etc - the various "bad" terrorists have either neutralised them or sent them underground .This situation will persist for a few months or a couple of years as long as the operations are in force.The NDS isn't in a position to fight our proxy war.

The least one can expect from this government is to implement the various pending reports from committees which conducted exhaustive studies in the aftermath of the Kargil war, 26/11 attack & the various major & minor outrages we have been subjected to , in the armed forces , intelligence apparatus , security doctrines , etc ( we don't even have a national anti terrorism security doctrine in spite of being the worst sufferer of terrorism for over 3 decades nor do we have a comprehensive policy to deal with it.We also lack a national counter terrorism body ).

In the absence of all this , the NDA is just a mirror image of the UPA , with some sheen on it .

P.S - All this talk of asking Pak to initiate steps to investigate , incarcerate , prosecute & jail terrorists involved in anti Ind activities is hogwash & demeaning .So, is the talk of getting the Americans on board to initiate actions against Pak in the UNSC .If the Americans couldn't do much when their own soldiers were being killed in Afghanistan in spite of knowing full well that Pak was providing material support as well as sanctuaries to the Taliban what can do they do to help us now.besides, China is now openly backing Pak, giving it cover in the UN.
 
Last edited:
I think you guys aren't reading between the lines.There are no covert assets available to be deployed , neither do we have the resources to win a short war nor can we deploy strike teams across as a punitive measure.

The Pak Army's simultaneous operations in FATA & across their country against the TTP , LeJ , MQM , etc - the various "bad" terrorists have either neutralised them or sent them underground .This situation will persist for a few months or a couple of years as long as the operations are in force.The NDS isn't in a position to fight our proxy war.

The least one can expect from this government is to implement the various pending reports from committees which conducted exhaustive studies in the aftermath of the Kargil war, 26/11 attack & the various major & minor outrages we have been subjected to , in the armed forces , intelligence apparatus , security doctrines , etc ( we don't even have a national anti terrorism security doctrine in spite of being the worst sufferer of terrorism for over 3 decades nor do we have a comprehensive policy to deal with it.We also lack a national counter terrorism body ).

In the absence of all this , the NDA is just a mirror image of the UPA , with some sheen on it .

P.S - All this talk of asking Pak to initiate steps to investigate , incarcerate , prosecute & jail terrorists involved in anti Ind activities is hogwash & demeaning .So, is the talk of getting the Americans on board to initiate actions against Pak in the UNSC .If the Americans couldn't do much when their own soldiers were being killed in Afghanistan in spite of knowing full well that Pak was providing material support as well as sanctuaries to the Taliban what can do they do to help us now.besides, China is now openly backing Pak, giving it cover in the UN.

We dont need a proxy but need extremely trained assassination teams .We dont have to bleed innocent lives .
 
Back
Top Bottom