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Patel would have kept all Kashmir with India: Amit Shah

So the region had to fall in the hand of an ally whom the British could trust blindly and India under the leadership of someone like Nehru who became a champion of socialism was not in their list of favorites.

With the two armed forces thoroughly controlled by British officers there was little scope for India that it could move beyond Baramulla
and Sadly, Patel could hardly do anything about it.

At least on the Indian side post Aug 47 the Brits did not control the IA.

Going to the UN by Nehru was a blunder , accepting a plebiscite compounded it. Thankfully, the UN resolution is under a non enforceable clause. Thus making it an advisory only.
 
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At least on the Indian side post Aug 47 the Brits did not control the IA.
Roy Bucher was CoC of Indian army then.Frank Messervy on the other side.

Going to the UN by Nehru was a blunder , accepting a plebiscite compounded it. Thankfully, the UN resolution is under a non enforceable clause. Thus making it an advisory only.

Easy to say today but impossible to implement then for the leaders (Not just Nehru alone) did not have slightest idea how International games are played. We are here blaming a man who was talking about striking deep inside the areas which are under Pakistan's control today.
 
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Well, had the whole Kashmir been our's then we would not 've had to fight so many wars.There would not 've been so much bitterness between India and Pak.
But if sardar Patel could launch an operation polo against Hyderabad's Nizam then why not in Kashmir? I am sure Nehru would not've stopped him,they had done it once and they could do it once again.

Though its saddening to know that Sardar Patel was not left with much in his later years.The paucity of info on him and his family surprises me.
 
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Roy Bucher was CoC of Indian army then.Frank Messervy on the other side.

Easy to say today but impossible to implement then for the leaders (Not just Nehru alone) did not have slightest idea how International games are played. We are here blaming a man who was talking about striking deep inside the areas which are under Pakistan's control today.

Yes the C in C's were Brit but the PM took the call both to fight & ceasefire.

Concede the part that in hindsight its is easy to be wise , yet the IA wanted to press on & he went to the UN
 
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Hahahahaha good 1 :rofl:

Nehru and his family are a disgrace to the nation. If (pandit my asss Nehru) had obeyed to make M.A Jinnah the first prime minister of India we would have been a bigger land mass. It was his hatred for Jinnah which ended in division of the country.

your logic is similar to a lunatic murderer who thinks that only if she had accepted my proposal for marriage i wouldn't have killed her...
 
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I think this is a completely wrong assessment of the whole Kashmir debacle.While Mountbatten admitted that Patel was less "tractable" than Nehru in terms of negotiating in Kashmir matter, this is wrong to assume that Patel was kept out from the entire scene, .....

It was a very wrong assessment. Sardar Patel had little interest in Kashmir, it was Nehru who was interested. Patel even offered to negotiate transfer of Kashmir for Hyderabad. The Pakistanis didn't bite because they thought that they could get both.

"In this regard, the record of the foolishness of Muslim leaders is a long and sordid one. I will allude to just one aspect of this here. In 1947, when India was partitioned, Pakistani leaders adopted a completely stupid stance and staked their claim to two Hindu-majority Indian princely states: Junagadh and Hyderabad. Had the Pakistani leaders adopted a sensible and pragmatic approach and not demanded that Junagadh and Hyderabad, which were far from the Pakistani borders and deep inside Indian territory, should accede to Pakistan, the issue of Kashmir would never have become so serious as it soon did. The question of Kashmir could then have very easily been solved in favour of Pakistan. But the avarice of the Pakistani leaders resulted in Pakistan getting neither Junagadh nor Hyderabad, and, at the same time, they failed to acquire Kashmir as well.


Let me cite some facts to confirm my point. Chaudhry Muhamnmad Ali was the Prime Minister of Pakistan in the period 1955-1957. Prior to this, he had been a senior minister in the cabinet of Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan. In his voluminous book Emergence of Pakistan he relates that shortly after the Partition, the Muslim ruler of the Hindu-majority princely state of Junagadh declared that his state would accede to Pakistan. India refused to accept this decision and sent in its armed forces that took over the state and incorporated it into India. After this, a meeting was held in Delhi, attended by Jawaharlal Nehru and Sardar Patel, from the Indian side, and Liaqat Ali Khan and Chaudhry Muhammad Ali, from the Pakistani side. Chaudhry Muhammad Ali writes:


‘Sardar Patel, although a bitter enemy of Pakistan, was a greater realist than Nehru. In one of the discussions between the two Prime Ministers, at which Patel and I were also present, Liaqat Ali Khan dwelt on the inconsistency of the Indian stand with regard to Junagadh and Kashmir. If Junagadh, despite its Muslim ruler’s accession to Pakistan, belonged to India because of its Hindu majority, how could Kashmir, with its Muslim majority, be a part of India simply by virtue of its Hindu ruler having signed a conditional instrument of accession to India? If the instrument of accession signed by the Muslim ruler of Junagadh was of no validity, the instrument of accession signed by the Hindu ruler of Kashmir was also invalid. If the will of the people was to prevail in Junagadh, it must prevail in Kashmir as well. India could not claim both Junagadh and Kashmir.


‘When Liaqat made these incontrovertible points, Patel could not contain himself and burst out: “Why do you compare Junagadh with Kashmir? Talk of Hyderabad and Kashmir, and we could reach an agreement.” Patel’s view at this time, and even later, was that India’s efforts to retain Muslim-majority areas against the will of the people were a source not of strength but of weakness to India. He felt that if India and Pakistan agreed to let Kashmir go to Pakistan and Hyderabad to India, the problems of Kashmir and of Hyderabad could be solved peacefully and to the mutual advantage of India and Pakistan.’


If what Chaudhry Muhammad Ali says is true, it is incontrovertible evidence that the conflict over Kashmir is a creation of the Pakistani leaders themselves, and not of India.


Further proof of this is available in another book by an important Pakistani leader, Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan. This book was originally written in Urdu under the title Gumgashta Qaum. Its English title is The Nation That Lost Its Soul. In this book, Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan reveals:


‘When Mountbatten arrived in Lahore when fighting broke out in Kashmir, he addressed an important dinner meeting which was attended by the Pakistani Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan, the Governor of the Punjab, and four Ministers from the Punjab, where he delivered a message from Patel. In his message, Patel suggested that India and Pakistan should abide by the principles that had been agreed upon between the Congress and the Muslim League with regard to the political future of the princely states, according to which the states would accede to India or Pakistan depending on the religion of the majority of their inhabitants as well as their contiguity to either of the two countries. Accordingly, Patel suggested that Pakistan should take Kashmir and renounce its claims to Hyderabad Deccan, which had a Hindu majority and which had no land or sea border with Pakistan. After delivering this message, Mountbatten retired to the Government House to rest.’


Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan further relates:


‘I was in-charge of Pakistan’s operations in Kashmir. I went to see Liaqat Ali Khan, and pointed out that Indian forces had entered Kashmir and that Pakistan could not succeed in driving them out using the tribal raiders to ensure that Kashmir became part of Pakistan. I even said that it seemed unlikely that the Pakistani Army could succeed in doing so. Hence, I insisted, we must not reject Patel’s offer. But Liaqat Ali Khan turned to me and said, “Sardar Sahib! Have I gone mad that I should leave the state of Hyderabad Deccan, which is even larger than the Punjab, in exchange for the mountains and peaks of Kashmir?”



‘I was stunned at Liaqat Ali Khan’s reaction, shocked that our Prime Minister was so ignorant of geography, and at his preferring Hyderabad Deccan over Kashmir. This was nothing but living in a fool’s paradise. To acquire Hyderabad was clearly impossible, and we were rejecting an opportunity that would have given us Kashmir. Yet, Liaqat was totally unaware of the importance of Kashmir for Pakistan. That is why I resigned in protest as in-charge of Kashmir operations.’"

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It was a very wrong assessment. Sardar Patel had little interest in Kashmir, it was Nehru who was interested. Patel even offered to negotiate transfer of Kashmir for Hyderabad. The Pakistanis didn't bite because they thought that they could get both.

"In this regard, the record of the foolishness of Muslim leaders is a long and sordid one. I will allude to just one aspect of this here. In 1947, when India was partitioned, Pakistani leaders adopted a completely stupid stance and staked their claim to two Hindu-majority Indian princely states: Junagadh and Hyderabad. Had the Pakistani leaders adopted a sensible and pragmatic approach and not demanded that Junagadh and Hyderabad, which were far from the Pakistani borders and deep inside Indian territory, should accede to Pakistan, the issue of Kashmir would never have become so serious as it soon did. The question of Kashmir could then have very easily been solved in favour of Pakistan. But the avarice of the Pakistani leaders resulted in Pakistan getting neither Junagadh nor Hyderabad, and, at the same time, they failed to acquire Kashmir as well.

Let me cite some facts to confirm my point. Chaudhry Muhamnmad Ali was the Prime Minister of Pakistan in the period 1955-1957. Prior to this, he had been a senior minister in the cabinet of Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan. In his voluminous book Emergence of Pakistan he relates that shortly after the Partition, the Muslim ruler of the Hindu-majority princely state of Junagadh declared that his state would accede to Pakistan. India refused to accept this decision and sent in its armed forces that took over the state and incorporated it into India. After this, a meeting was held in Delhi, attended by Jawaharlal Nehru and Sardar Patel, from the Indian side, and Liaqat Ali Khan and Chaudhry Muhammad Ali, from the Pakistani side. Chaudhry Muhammad Ali writes:

‘Sardar Patel, although a bitter enemy of Pakistan, was a greater realist than Nehru. In one of the discussions between the two Prime Ministers, at which Patel and I were also present, Liaqat Ali Khan dwelt on the inconsistency of the Indian stand with regard to Junagadh and Kashmir. If Junagadh, despite its Muslim ruler’s accession to Pakistan, belonged to India because of its Hindu majority, how could Kashmir, with its Muslim majority, be a part of India simply by virtue of its Hindu ruler having signed a conditional instrument of accession to India? If the instrument of accession signed by the Muslim ruler of Junagadh was of no validity, the instrument of accession signed by the Hindu ruler of Kashmir was also invalid. If the will of the people was to prevail in Junagadh, it must prevail in Kashmir as well. India could not claim both Junagadh and Kashmir.

‘When Liaqat made these incontrovertible points, Patel could not contain himself and burst out: “Why do you compare Junagadh with Kashmir? Talk of Hyderabad and Kashmir, and we could reach an agreement.” Patel’s view at this time, and even later, was that India’s efforts to retain Muslim-majority areas against the will of the people were a source not of strength but of weakness to India. He felt that if India and Pakistan agreed to let Kashmir go to Pakistan and Hyderabad to India, the problems of Kashmir and of Hyderabad could be solved peacefully and to the mutual advantage of India and Pakistan.’

If what Chaudhry Muhammad Ali says is true, it is incontrovertible evidence that the conflict over Kashmir is a creation of the Pakistani leaders themselves, and not of India.

Further proof of this is available in another book by an important Pakistani leader, Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan. This book was originally written in Urdu under the title Gumgashta Qaum. Its English title is The Nation That Lost Its Soul. In this book, Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan reveals:

‘When Mountbatten arrived in Lahore when fighting broke out in Kashmir, he addressed an important dinner meeting which was attended by the Pakistani Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan, the Governor of the Punjab, and four Ministers from the Punjab, where he delivered a message from Patel. In his message, Patel suggested that India and Pakistan should abide by the principles that had been agreed upon between the Congress and the Muslim League with regard to the political future of the princely states, according to which the states would accede to India or Pakistan depending on the religion of the majority of their inhabitants as well as their contiguity to either of the two countries. Accordingly, Patel suggested that Pakistan should take Kashmir and renounce its claims to Hyderabad Deccan, which had a Hindu majority and which had no land or sea border with Pakistan. After delivering this message, Mountbatten retired to the Government House to rest.’

Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan further relates:

‘I was in-charge of Pakistan’s operations in Kashmir. I went to see Liaqat Ali Khan, and pointed out that Indian forces had entered Kashmir and that Pakistan could not succeed in driving them out using the tribal raiders to ensure that Kashmir became part of Pakistan. I even said that it seemed unlikely that the Pakistani Army could succeed in doing so. Hence, I insisted, we must not reject Patel’s offer. But Liaqat Ali Khan turned to me and said, “Sardar Sahib! Have I gone mad that I should leave the state of Hyderabad Deccan, which is even larger than the Punjab, in exchange for the mountains and peaks of Kashmir?”


‘I was stunned at Liaqat Ali Khan’s reaction, shocked that our Prime Minister was so ignorant of geography, and at his preferring Hyderabad Deccan over Kashmir. This was nothing but living in a fool’s paradise. To acquire Hyderabad was clearly impossible, and we were rejecting an opportunity that would have given us Kashmir. Yet, Liaqat was totally unaware of the importance of Kashmir for Pakistan. That is why I resigned in protest as in-charge of Kashmir operations.’"

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hahaha

so this is how Sardar Patel would have sorted the kashmir issue

pl educate the 56 inch fenku and the RSS about this

@Bang Galore source of that article pls!


i think the two books from whcih it has been quoted are mentioned in the article itself
 
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pakistanis must give independence to baluchistan first, then came and talk about kashmir... pakistan is actually playing a double game. killing those people demand independence of balochistan and supporting terrorists for fight against india in kashmir and rest of india....
We wouldve given it if the whole of balochistan revolted however on 2 districts out of 30 have bla present and supported by more than 25% of their pop which makes about 2.5% of balochistan revolting now how can we compare this with kashmir or assam? Now 2.5% makes 165000 people out of 6.6 million total population. And in balochistan there are pakhtuns as well who are full pakistani patriotic and have a majority in the capital quetta
Pakistan zindabad
 
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Patel or not patel. India couldn't have get whole of Kashmir in any case.
 
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pakistanis must give independence to baluchistan first, then came and talk about kashmir... pakistan is actually playing a double game. killing those people demand independence of balochistan and supporting terrorists for fight against india in kashmir and rest of india....

What about givingIndependence to Naga lands eh ?
 
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What about givingIndependence to Naga lands eh ?

that is the exact point. these kind of secessionist movements divert people from the real issue of economic development. i am not for any referendum vote anywhere in the world including scotland.
 
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