Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Farah Sohail]

Karachi case is one example of monitoring Judge.

Karachi case main monitoring judge thay, ya implementation bench? It seems theres a difference between the two..

Watch Aitezaz Ahsan's vid..esp the part tht i mentioned.... And then tell me..what do u think?

 

[The Accountant]

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@Emmie Sheikh Rashid has filed this application before the "implementation bench" of SC..whwereas..after final verdict of panama case..theres no. "Implementation bench" now rather only a monitoring judge.... Implementation bench was to oversee JIT.. I am not sure why SR has still used the term implementation bench in his CMA, and not monitoring judge!Will it make any difference..or will /can registrar dismiss this CMA saying..theres no implementation bench .,now? Remember this is the same registrar...which dismissed panama paper petitions as frivilous.. Or will registrar simply forward it to the monitoring judge?
Also..i was listening to Aitezaz Ahsan yesterday..in a prog..where he talked abt monitoring judge.. He was asked ..whether there are precedents..of appointng monitoring judge,. He said yes,.. Also he said tht monitoring judge only has administrative powers.. Monitoring judge is to only make sure tht nodelay happens.. Infact Iftikhar Ch yesterday also said in a prog tht monitoring judge's job is to expedite the process and tht no delay happens.. Aitezaz said tht monitoring judge can ask for reports in his chamber.. I couldnt properly listen.. To Aitezaz or couldnt properly understand what he was saying.. Does it mean there will be no open hearings by the monitoring judge at all..and probably this is the reason tht theres hasnt been any hearing as yet? I dont know.. I couldnt really undestand..what aitezaz Ahsan really meant there...
do u think..hearing wil happen once references are filed? Or there wont be any hearing at all? Just related parties can file application before monitoring judge and he will simply accept or reject it and forward it to the concerned parties? Like Ijazul Ahsan has accepted NAB's plea..of including JIT member's statements as prosecution witness..without any open hearing... Aitezaz was also referring other cases where monitoring judhe was appointed.. Do u know whthere there was any open hearing when only monitoring judge was appointed and not implementation bench? Are powers /procedures pf monitoring judge ..different or same? @Emmie

If anyone knows or can tell anything abt cases..where monitoring judge has been appointed earlier? Aitezaz Ahsan talked abt Amir hani Muslim ke woh tu bhtt cases main aisa kartay thay.. Kia kartay thay? Open hearings as monitoring judge or taking reports abt the case in his chamber?


Watch from 21:50. - 26:15 where monitoring judge is discussed... Was our interpretion or expectation from monitoring judge wrong? @Shane @The Accountant @Emmie @PakSword

My expectation was always the same ...

Yes he will not be able to put any direct influence on NAB Judges, but administrative control means that he can see the content of reference and can ask NAB to ammend the same if required, he can instruct the NAB to include witnesses and proofs (based on JIT report), he can instruct NAB and NAB to wriet notices, so basically he will be monitoring how NAB is proceeding the case but ofcourse decision will be of NAB judge and it will not e influenced by directly influenced by monitoring judge ,,,

Basically SC has a yard stick which is proofs in JIT report and they will be monitoring it based on same yard stick ... if something present in JIT report is not being presented in court SC wil intervene and ask NAB to present the same however, based on whatever present only NAB judge will decide

 

[Farah Sohail]

My expectation was always the same ...

Yes he will not be able to put any direct influence on NAB Judges, but administrative control means that he can see the content of reference and can ask NAB to ammend the same if required, he can instruct the NAB to include witnesses and proofs (based on JIT report), he can instruct NAB and NAB to wriet notices, so basically he will be monitoring how NAB is proceeding the case but ofcourse decision will be of NAB judge and it will not e influenced by directly influenced by monitoring judge ,,,

Basically SC has a yard stick which is proofs in JIT report and they will be monitoring it based on same yard stick ... if something present in JIT report is not being presented in court SC wil intervene and ask NAB to present the same however, based on whatever present only NAB judge will decide

But Aitezaz was saying tht monitoring judge..will ..do or ask for anything in his chamber,, does it mean..tht there will be no open hearings by monitoring judge..as we were expecting..like tht of implementation bench? Ijazul Ahsan approved NAB's request to include JIT members' directly..without any hearing..unlike implementation bench..where every application was decided by the bench in hearing..so no hearing by monitoring judge at all? What do u think?

It means..tht we wont come to know of any thing..if Ijazul Ahsan has any problem with NAB.. He will directly instruct them or ask for report from NAB...IF he wants..

Anything tht will happen..he will do it on his own... I am still not sure... Atleast public hearing se sab ko pata tu chal raha hota tha ke...ho kia raha hai?

Hum log jo itnay din se hearing ke intezar main thay ke monitoring judge..kab hearing karein ge? Kia hearing honi hi nahi hai?

 

[The Accountant]

But Aitezaz was saying tht monitoring judge..will ..do or ask for anything in his chamber,, does it mean..tht there will be no open hearings by monitoring judge..as we were expecting..like tht of implementation bench? Ijazul Ahsan approved NAB's request to include JIT members' directly..without any hearing..unlike implementation bench..where every application was decided by the bench in hearing..so no hearing by monitoring judge at all? What do u think?

It means..tht we wont come to know of any thing..if Ijazul Ahsan has any problem with NAB.. He will directly instruct them or ask for report from NAB...IF he wants..

Anything tht will happen..he will do it on his own... I am still not sure... Atleast public hearing se sab ko pata tu chal raha hota tha ke...ho kia raha hai?

Hum log jo itnay din se hearing ke intezar main thay ke monitoring judge..kab hearing karein ge? Kia hearing honi hi nahi hai?

I think hearing hongi but after a certain stage, but it is sole discretion of judge ,,,

 

[Farah Sohail]

I think hearing hongi but after a certain stage, but it is sole discretion of judge ,,,

Aitezaz Ahsan ki baat se tu aisa lag raha tha ke jo hoga...chamber main hi hoga...

Agar woh apnay chamber main hi reports dekh lein ge..ya directions dein ge jaisy..NAB ki request accept ki...aur Wajid Zia ko instructions di hain ke NAB main apnay statements record karaa dein... Is main tu koi hearing hui nahi...judge ne khud hi decide kar ke instructions de di hain..

Kahin..aagay bhi aisay hi sab na ho? lag t kuch aisa hi raha hai..aitezaz ahsan ki baaton se bhi aur..jo ab tak is case main hua hai..us se bhi.. Vol 10 bhi SC ne NAB ki request par khud hi de di..uski bhi hearing nahi hui..directly NAB ki request par khud hi de di..

 

[The Accountant]

Aitezaz Ahsan ki baat se tu aisa lag raha tha ke jo hoga...chamber main hi hoga...

Agar woh apnay chamber main hi reports dekh lein ge..ya directions dein ge jaisy..NAB ki request accept ki...aur Wajid Zia ko instructions di hain ke NAB main apnay statements record karaa dein... Is main tu koi hearing hui nahi...judge ne khud hi decide kar ke instructions de di hain..

Kahin..aagay bhi aisay hi sab na ho? lag t kuch aisa hi raha hai..aitezaz ahsan ki baaton se bhi aur..jo ab tak is case main hua hai..us se bhi.. Vol 10 bhi SC ne NAB ki request par khud hi de di..uski bhi hearing nahi hui..directly NAB ki request par khud hi de di..

Yes, but NAB case ki proceedings tu public hogi or news mn bhi ayn gy so ager kuch ghalat ho bhi raha hoga tu we will know ...

 

[Farah Sohail]

Yes, but NAB case ki proceedings tu public hogi or news mn bhi ayn gy so ager kuch ghalat ho bhi raha hoga tu we will know ...

Accountability court tu baad ki baat hai.. Pehle tu refrences file honay hain........woh important hai..... Us par jo monitoring judge karein ge...lagta hai ke woh sirf chamber main hi hoga..aur public nahi hoga..

 

[The Accountant]

Accountability court tu baad ki baat hai.. Pehle tu refrences file honay hain........woh important hai..... Us par jo monitoring judge karein ge...lagta hai ke woh sirf chamber main hi hoga..aur public nahi hoga..

yes, apparently yehi lag rha ha ,,, infact i think this is already happening,

 

[Shane]

Karachi case main monitoring judge thay, ya implementation bench? It seems theres a difference between the two..

Watch Aitezaz Ahsan's vid..esp the part tht i mentioned.... And then tell me..what do u think?

Search for Justice Ameer Hani Muslim, Monitoring Judge for ATC courts appointed by SC.

Never mind, read here about monitoring Judge and some insights reported on observations and some orders:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/6787...dministrative-judge-for-anti-terrorism-courts

Yes, but NAB case ki proceedings tu public hogi or news mn bhi ayn gy so ager kuch ghalat ho bhi raha hoga tu we will know ...

Whatever the decision of Accountability Courts, afterwards, there will be appeals in high court and then SC.

So the monitoring Judge's directions, recommendations, orders and even observations shall be of paramount importance wrt mala fide on the part of NAB.

.lagta hai ke woh sirf chamber main hi hoga..aur public nahi hoga.

ATC monitoring Judge ki tu kafi details report huwui hain pehlay tu yeh bhee report ho hee jain gee.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Search for Justice Ameer Hani Muslim, Monitoring Judge for ATC courts appointed by SC.

Never mind, read here about monitoring Judge and some insights reported on observations and some orders:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/6787...dministrative-judge-for-anti-terrorism-courts

Whatever the decision of Accountability Courts, afterwards, there will be appeals in high court and then SC.

So the monitoring Judge's directions, recommendations, orders and even observations shall be of paramount importance wrt mala fide on the part of NAB.

ATC monitoring Judge ki tu kafi details report huwui hain pehlay tu yeh bhee report ho hee jain gee.

Thanks for sharing tht news item... Justice Amir Hani Muslim gave many directions...

But interesting thing to note is tht..he gave these directions..not in an open hearing..as we were expecting..tht there will be public hearings, like tht of implementation bench....but he gave these directions...after a meeting.

Quoting few paragraphs from tht artcle

Presiding over a meeting held to review the progress of ATC at Supreme Court Karachi Registry, the monitoring judge observed that there were serious complaints regarding transfer of anti-terrorism cases due to non-availability of administrative judge of ATCs whereas presiding officers of the ATCs have been made as administrative judges in different districts of the Karachi.

.....
The meeting was attended by Justice Sajjad Ali Shah of Sindh High Court, Registrar of SHC Zafar Ahmed Khan Sherwani, Presiding officer of ATC-I Bashir Ahmed Khoso, Prosecutor General Sher Mohammad Sheikh, Additional Chief Secretary Home Department Mukhtar Hussain Soomro, Secretary Finance Mohammad Sohail Rajput, IG Sindh Ghulam Haider Jamali, IG Prison Nusrat Hussain Mangan, MD KWSB Misbahuddin Fareed and other government officers.


It seems ..ke ye SC ne proper press release issue ki thee..jo report hua hai..
.......

Now..atleast one thing is clear.. There will be no court hearing

So it all depends on the monitoring judge..ke woh kia kartay hain? Court hearing t nahi hogi..but woh meetings karsaktay hain...repors le saktay hain.. Monitoring judge can give any direction he wants..

Wahan t Justice Amir Hani Muslim seemed very active..lekin yahan tu J Ijazul Ahsan ne ab tak aisa kuch kia hi nahi hai., nothing at all..

One reason could be..ke woh abhi tak Islamabad gaye hi nahi hain? Kia ye wajah hosakti hai? Ya bas..inka mood hi nahi hai..kuch karnay ka?

 

[Shane]

One reason could be..ke woh abhi tak Islamabad gaye hi nahi hain? Kia ye wajah hosakti hai? Ya bas..inka mood hi nahi hai..kuch karnay ka?

You correctly wrote the answer in your own question: One reason could be..ke woh abhi tak Islamabad gaye hi nahi hain...ya inka mood hi nahi hai.

Shayad kuch waqt tak kuch na karna, kuch karnay say behtar samjha hoga. Ab tak jo kuch kar chukay hain, Mood ki baat ho hee nahee sakti.

For people of integrity, legacy has its own motivations. No matter the consequences.

Let's see who makes the history in what words.

 

[Farah Sohail]

You correctly wrote the answer in your own question: One reason could be..ke woh abhi tak Islamabad gaye hi nahi hain...ya inka mood hi nahi hai.

Shayad kuch waqt tak kuch na karna, kuch karnay say behtar samjha hoga. Ab tak jo kuch kar chukay hain, Mood ki baat ho hee nahee sakti.

For people of integrity, legacy has its own motivations. No matter the consequences.

Let's see who makes the history in what words.

@bold Mood ki baat kiun nahi hosakti? Ab tak aisa bhi kiya kya? Going by their own observations regd NAB..inhein tu NAB ya atleast Chairman NAB ke against koi action lena chahye tha..just like Justice Khosa took away all powers from Chairman NAB... Yahan tu inhon ne sab kuch NAB par chor diya.,when they clearly know..NAB and its chairman's partiality ..they have themselves given numerous observations regd NAB during hearings...yet they left everything on NAB to file references...aur ab monitor bhi nahi karrahay.. Chalein...dekh letay hain ke...Islamabad jaa kar...kia karletay hain? Waisy mood waqayi nahi lag raha, filhaal inka..

 

[Shane]

@bold Mood ki baat kiun nahi hosakti? Ab tak aisa bhi kiya kya? Going by their own observations regd NAB..inhein tu NAB ya atleast Chairman NAB ke against koi action lena chahye tha..just like Justice Khosa took away all powers from Chairman NAB... Yahan tu inhon ne sab kuch NAB par chor diya.,when they clearly know..NAB and its chairman's partiality ..they have themselves given numerous observations regd NAB during hearings...yet they left everything on NAB to file references...aur ab monitor bhi nahi karrahay.. Chalein...dekh letay hain ke...Islamabad jaa kar...kia karletay hain? Waisy mood waqayi nahi lag raha, filhaal inka..

May be you are right but it's all just guess work. In your own words...Chalein...dekh letay hain ke...Islamabad jaa kar...kia karletay hain.

 

[QatariPrince]

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[Shane]

@bold Mood ki baat kiun nahi hosakti? Ab tak aisa bhi kiya kya? Going by their own observations regd NAB..inhein tu NAB ya atleast Chairman NAB ke against koi action lena chahye tha..just like Justice Khosa took away all powers from Chairman NAB... Yahan tu inhon ne sab kuch NAB par chor diya.,when they clearly know..NAB and its chairman's partiality ..they have themselves given numerous observations regd NAB during hearings...yet they left everything on NAB to file references...aur ab monitor bhi nahi karrahay.. Chalein...dekh letay hain ke...Islamabad jaa kar...kia karletay hain? Waisy mood waqayi nahi lag raha, filhaal inka..

You would agree with me that I have posted earlier about the laid back attitude of the original Panama case petitioners since the verdict. Knowing full well that a monitoring Judge is in place to "oversee the references".
Let me repeat: to oversee the references.

Before the 28th July verdict, NAB had agreed that it would reopen the Hudaibia Scandal case within 7 days.

When NAB failed to reopen the Hudaibia case, why did the three original petitioners keep their mouths, eye and ears shut and keep their hands tied behind their backs?

If as per SRA now, SC is showing a tilt to go easy on Sharif Family, what or who stopped him from going to the courts after the 7 day to reopen hudaibia case timeline expired weeks ago?

There are so many aspects of a need to file cases, Nawaz gave so many excuses to file contempt of court cases but why there were no takers?

If SC is showing a lack of notice towards PMLN, then why the opponents were not knocking the door of SC earlier to make them take notice of violation of its verdict? (i'm not talking about references but hudaibya, contempt and still using Govt resources and still calling him PM)

I posted about IK visiting the family in Lahore of Martyred on 27th, took him long enough to enjoy his vacations to get there, the thugs in government never even cared to even call.

If such cases were not warranted earlier then why SRA woke up and filed for one now?

We keep hearing a lot is going on behind the scenes. This same "behind" is what has kept this nation in the situation it is in, behind.

Jan jal jati hay sab harkatain daikh aur sunn sunn Kay...

If it was not for an act of mercy of Allah Subhan Taala that #Panama leaks were disclosed by #ICIJ, this System, it's stake holders and Nawaz actually deserve one another.