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Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

You realize that the chain of command places the PM above the COAS, right? Some "discipline", eh?
You really are an incorrigible one my friend from the land of Hussain Haqqani.

Again caught with your hand stuck to the zipper. The discipline within the army has pledged not to impose Martial Law again and work exactly within the Law. Exactly what you demand in one breath while changing the goal post and calling it a soft coup without an iota of grace. Koi sharam hoti hay, koi haya hoti hay...

Whereas Nawaz & co. Zardari and the likes of you want them to go out of the way, break the law and stop the judiciary taking action against the disqualified, the accused and the next in line corrupts.

What kind of half @ed, selective idealism of yours puts a disgraced kingpin(zardari then)or an American CIA stooge Haqqani or disqualified kingpin(nawaz) above the PM of Pakistan to dictate terms to? Where did the "due process" or "according to the law" fly to then? Never heared a purr from you back then Mr.Idealist and all of a sudden Nazaryati.
 
Kennedy assassinated by Deep State of USA

Nixon - we all know what he did and why he was forced to resign

Regan - hosted Afghan Mujahideen in the White House

Clinton - impeached over ONE lie

Trump - US Judiciary blocks the immigration orders he gave

Look at what happens in your own country @Syed.Ali.Haider

You can't even read the detailed judgement by SC bench and have the audacity to cast a conspiracy theory over it all. Keep at it, like a rat you hid in the Senior Cafe for a while, maybe it's time to go back there. Or maybe the paychecks dried up eh?
 
Also...for his own good..its better tht Justice Khosa backs out from this bench.. sharifs are ghatya ppl...sharifs will attack him personally with even more venom..... koi zuroorat nahi..inhein apnay aap ko dobara mushkil aur controversy main daalnay ki...

I think you are being just a tad bit over protective of Honourable Justice Khosa. He must have signed up for judiciary keeping in view the ominous "Mushkilat" to some extent anyway.

If Sharifs attack him personally even more then so what? Nothing new.

I hope that Justice Khosa does not back out from Hudaibya case. By this argument then all five judges shall remove themselves from related cases too, like the inevitable nab reference's appeal shall reach SCP after high court in due time. Now that's a major chunk of judges with extensive knowledge of the cases and their backgrounds to leave out simply because they adjudicated fairly and squarely against the culprits of financial crimes.
 
For the hypocrite here!

Judicialisation of leaders
Faisal SiddiqiNovember 11, 2017
28
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The writer is a lawyer.


“The culture of passing the candidates by granting grace marks has not delivered the goods. It has rather corrupted the people and corrupted the system.” — Justice Ejaz Afzal Khan

SOMETHING big is happening and it is neither a conspiracy against democracy nor a jubilant triumph of the rule of law.

What does the successful legal and judicial movement against Pervez Musharraf, the disqualification of prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani for contempt, and the disqualification of prime minister Nawaz Sharif for misdeclaration, have in common? All these judicial challenges happened when these leaders had power and were in government, and the changes in leadership were brought about by the judicial process.

It is erroneous to think that this is a mere continuation of judicial history eg the judicial murder of Bhutto etc., because those old cases were decided against the political leadership when they were not in power. Leaving aside the causes and consequences of this judicialisation of leaders phenomenon, let us understand what the latter is by examining the reasoning given in the recent Supreme Court judgement, dismissing Nawaz Sharif and his family’s review petitions.

Short and fatal reasoning: Each main objection raised by the Sharif family was taken up and dismissed by the court. Firstly, two facts were surprisingly admitted by Nawaz Sharif — from July 2006 to January 2013, salary from the Dubai company accrued and accumulated in his favour and this salary was not declared in his nomination papers. Nawaz Sharif’s only argument was that he never claimed it, and thus waived it in favour of the company. Hence, the judgement holds that “it was an asset out and out” because his exclusive power to withdraw or waive proves it to be an asset. Indeed, it is a rather strict view taken by the Supreme Court but it is equally difficult to disagree with the court’s logic especially after Nawaz Sharif’s admission.

The detailed judgement will be seen less in terms of its reasoning and more in terms of its spirit.

Secondly, their argument that Nawaz Sharif’s omitting to disclose this salary asset was unintentional was rejected by the Supreme Court on the grounds that this would “have been tenable had the petitioner been a novice or a new entrant in business and politics ... this argument cannot be given much weight when it has not been pleaded by the petitioner that the omission to mention the asset was accidental, inadvertent”. This reasoning further exposes Nawaz Sharif’s failed legal strategy.

Thirdly, regarding their argument that the issue of non-disclosure of his unwithdrawn salary from the Dubai-based company in his nomination papers was never raised in the petitions, the court reminds that the issue of this company ie Capital FZE was specifically raised and framed in the separate judgement (April 20, 2017) of Justice Ijaz Ul Ahsan. Needless to mention that this earlier judgement was surprisingly not challenged but rather celebrated by Nawaz Sharif’s family and defended by their counsels.

Fourthly, the court rejected their point that the Supreme Court could not have assumed the power of the NAB chairman by ordering the filing of the NAB references; the court holds that this argument could have been accepted “had there been no institutional capture, seizure and subjugation of all the important institutions of the state … through the cronies and collaborators of the person at the peak”.

Needless to say that this potential filing of NAB references was clearly indicated in the earlier judgement of April 20, 2017, which was surprisingly not challenged but rather celebrated by Nawaz Sharif’s family and defended by their counsels.

Fifthly, the court rejects their argument that the appointment of a monitoring judge is a violation of the accused’s right to due process; instead, it holds that “it is to guard against intrusion of casualness in the proceedings before the trial court. Such practice, by no stretch of imagination, implies that the monitoring judge would in any way influence or interfere with decision-making process of the trial court”.

In order to understand the ‘casualness’ that the court is referring too, one simply has to examine Section VI of the JIT report dealing with previous and pending NAB/FIA cases against Nawaz Sharif’s family to understand how “cronies and collaborators of the person at the peak” have disrupted and destroyed these cases.

Sixthly, on their publicly debated objection that there are multiple judgements, first by a three-member bench and then by a five-member bench on the same day and at the same time ie July 28, 2017, the Supreme Court surprisingly notes that lawyers for Nawaz Sharif’s family “opted not to press the review petitions filed before the three-member bench”. In non-legal terms, his counsels surprisingly gave up this objection. If it was such a strong objection violating due process, why was it given up?

Spirit of reasoning: Judicial historians will understand this judgement less in terms of its reasoning and more in terms of the spirit underlying it. This spirit is best captured on pages 12-14 (paras 8-9) of the judgement. In language that is quite emotional, the Supreme Court holds “Nor could have we let him get away with it simply because he happened to be the prime minister … He never came forth with the whole truth. He tried to fool the people inside and outside the parliament. He even tried to fool the court ... Any concession at this stage or any leniency to the candidates or the person elected would be a prelude to a catastrophe in politics … Since it is already touching the extreme, extreme measures have to be taken”.

Such language symbolises the birth of a new era in which the ruling elite of this country will be determined by an unstable mixture of the popular vote, judges and the army. David Robertson has captured this judicial approach by noting that “constitutional judges often come near to being applied political theorists”.

Since 2007, Pakistan’s democracy, constitutionalism and judiciary have dramatically changed. Those who think that this is just a repeat of past judicial history understand neither the promise nor the grave dangers that lie ahead.

The writer is a lawyer.

Published in Dawn, November 11th, 2017
 
Such language symbolises the birth of a new era in which the ruling elite of this country will be determined by an unstable mixture of the popular vote, judges and the army.

So the "new era" is just like the old era. The condemned will surely repeat their history, being determined to learn nothing from it. The world shall move on, as before.

I can accept that very calmly.
 
I think you are being just a tad bit over protective of Honourable Justice Khosa. He must have signed up for judiciary keeping in view the ominous "Mushkilat" to some extent anyway.

If Sharifs attack him personally even more then so what? Nothing new.

I hope that Justice Khosa does not back out from Hudaibya case. By this argument then all five judges shall remove themselves from related cases too, like the inevitable nab reference's appeal shall reach SCP after high court in due time. Now that's a major chunk of judges with extensive knowledge of the cases and their backgrounds to leave out simply because they adjudicated fairly and squarely against the culprits of financial crimes.

@bold maybe you are right.. its just tht I like him too much..is liye i dont want him to get imvolved in some unnecessary controversy..and tht i dont want him to be personally attacked...

Waisy tu shayad main na kehti ke he should backout form this case... but masla ye hai ke..is dafa sharifs ka objection waqayi valid hai.. everyone knows already ke Justice Khosa ka hudaibya walay case par kia judgment hoga? Because he has clearly expressed his views regd hudaibya case..in panama verdict.. tu sharifs ka ye objection tht Justice Khosa has already made up his mind regd this case and wont be neutral..atleast is case ki hadd tak tu valid hai..

Aur ek baat bataoun...personally attack wali ... main kiun keh rahi hun? Sharifs iss hadd tak ghatya log hain..jin ka personal attacks karnay main koi comparison nahi... main sirf ye log jo judges ko bura bhala bol rahay hain..is ki baat nahi karrahi...is se koi khaas farq nahi parta....lekin doosrun ki families ki ladies ko kon involve karta hai? None other than sharifs... inhon ne Jemima ke saath bhi kiya tha.. aur Justice Khosa ke saath bhi

U know.. jab se panama case ka initial verdict aaya tha..inhon ne Justice Khosa par kiya attack karna shuru kia tha? Sab se pehle tu inki social media team ne ye kehna shuru kia ke inka beta PTI main hai.. lekin woh theory ziada chali nahi..because in his bio on SC website..its clearly mentioned tht he has only two daughters..

Jab ye lie expose hogaya.. iske baad inhon ne ek bhtt hi shadeed ghatya kaam kiya.. twitter par..maryam ki social media team ne ye theory shuru ki..tht he has a sister named Nargis Khosa..who was once married to Shahbaz sharif..and he divorced her...uska badla lenay ke liye Justice Khosa ne ye sab kiya.. can u imagine? Main tu kher pehli dafa hi samajh gayi thee ke ye jhoot hoga...i knew he was an honest man...he would always decide fairly..
Also ye theory ke jhoot honay ka is liye bhi yaqeen tha....esp because his other brother...Nasir Khosa was Shahbaz sharif's chief secy.. so i knew this wasnt possible...otherwise Nasir Khosa would never hv been shabaz sharif's chief secy.. but inhon ne ye jhoot....itna spread kiya.tht many ppl believe it now. Aur aisy aisy jhootay screen shots.. ppl taunt him..ke divorce SHahbaz sharif ne di...Tu badla Nawaz sharif se kiun?is hadd tak ghatya log hian yeh.. phir main ne pata nahi..ek khatoon ki pic bhi dekhi ke kisi ne likha tha..ke she is nargis khosa..sister of Jusice Khosa..jisay dovorce hui thee.. main soch rahi thee ke bechari pata nahi kaun hai? Jisay scandalise karrahay hain..

I always knew tht this theory was nothing but a lie.. but ye baat confirm is tarah hui... tht i bought Tariq Khosa's book recently .. us main zikr tha..tht they are four brothers and a sister.. aur sister ka naam Nilofer hai.. nargis khosa tu inki sister ka naam bhi nahi... naam tak jhoot spread kiya hai in ghatya logon ne.. pata nahi..kon hai nargis khosa..jis ko inki sister banaa diya?

You cant imagine..mujhe us din kitna shadeed dukh hua..aut kitna shadeed ghussa aya..sharifs par.. is tarah family ko scandalise karna?.........twitter is full of this consipracy theory.. many ppl believe it now... i was surprised ke abhi tak kisi cyber crime walon ne is par action kiun naih liya?

i HATE sharifs soo much..tht u cant imagine... dil se badduaaein nikalti hian...

Mujhe ye judges ko jo bura bhala boltay hain..us se koi ziada farq nahi parta.. but is tarah ye log jo family members par attack kartay hain..ghalat scandalise kartay hain.. its too much.. itnay ghatya log sharifs ke ilaawa koi aur nahi hosaktay

Aur ab phir sharifs ke case main Justice Khosa ka lime light main aajana... jab ke is dafa tu unka objection hbi valid hai.. i dont want ke Justice Khosa..ya unki family par mazeed personal attacks hon.. bura bhala bolna..dhamkaana...ek alag baat hai...aur is tarah families ko target karna..woh bhi ladies ko... bilkol alag... ab phir jab ye inka case sunein ge tu dobara se in par aur inki family par attack shuru kardein ge... kia faida? Isnt it better tht he backs out of this case...esp..when for once..sharif's objection is valid too..on his presence in this bench?
 
Because that is the correct thing to do.
You were making NS exempt from accountability as Pakistan is a country like NK & Egypt? I guess you have backtracked from it (which is also the right thing to do). Now just don't throw away these ideals when corrupt polticians are subjected to rule of law and held accountable for their illegal wealth - for which the only tangible evidence they provide is some qatari prince letter. And precedence of generals and judges - or any one else - is irrelevant for NS accountability in court of law; should all the theifs sentenced by Pakistani courts be let go as generals havent been held accountable according to your satisfaction? Do you see the falacy in your argument.
 
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You were making NS exempt from accountability

You must be confusing me with someone else. Where have I ever exempted NS from accountability? He deserves to be meted out justice, just the same as every one else, no more and no less, whatever that entails.

And precedence of generals and judges - or any one else - is irrelevant for NS accountability in court of law

Yes, it is not precedence that is important to punish NS, but now that the precedence has been set by punishing NS first (great), is it too much to ask to apply the same standards to other politicians, generals and judges too, as the law is proper fair only if applied to every one equally and selective vindictiveness if it is not? I am perfectly happy to wait and see if this ever happens. No rush.
 
is it too much to ask to apply the same standards to other politicians, generals and judges too

You are utterly disconnected from ground realities. A Lahore high court judge, whose name is in Panama papers, is on the stand in front of SJC!

Nawaz is not the only one! You are a fool to believe that!
 
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@bold maybe you are right.. its just tht I like him too much..is liye i dont want him to get imvolved in some unnecessary controversy..and tht i dont want him to be personally attacked...

Waisy tu shayad main na kehti ke he should backout form this case... but masla ye hai ke..is dafa sharifs ka objection waqayi valid hai.. everyone knows already ke Justice Khosa ka hudaibya walay case par kia judgment hoga? Because he has clearly expressed his views regd hudaibya case..in panama verdict.. tu sharifs ka ye objection tht Justice Khosa has already made up his mind regd this case and wont be neutral..atleast is case ki hadd tak tu valid hai..

Aur ek baat bataoun...personally attack wali ... main kiun keh rahi hun? Sharifs iss hadd tak ghatya log hain..jin ka personal attacks karnay main koi comparison nahi... main sirf ye log jo judges ko bura bhala bol rahay hain..is ki baat nahi karrahi...is se koi khaas farq nahi parta....lekin doosrun ki families ki ladies ko kon involve karta hai? None other than sharifs... inhon ne Jemima ke saath bhi kiya tha.. aur Justice Khosa ke saath bhi

U know.. jab se panama case ka initial verdict aaya tha..inhon ne Justice Khosa par kiya attack karna shuru kia tha? Sab se pehle tu inki social media team ne ye kehna shuru kia ke inka beta PTI main hai.. lekin woh theory ziada chali nahi..because in his bio on SC website..its clearly mentioned tht he has only two daughters..

Jab ye lie expose hogaya.. iske baad inhon ne ek bhtt hi shadeed ghatya kaam kiya.. twitter par..maryam ki social media team ne ye theory shuru ki..tht he has a sister named Nargis Khosa..who was once married to Shahbaz sharif..and he divorced her...uska badla lenay ke liye Justice Khosa ne ye sab kiya.. can u imagine? Main tu kher pehli dafa hi samajh gayi thee ke ye jhoot hoga...i knew he was an honest man...he would always decide fairly..
Also ye theory ke jhoot honay ka is liye bhi yaqeen tha....esp because his other brother...Nasir Khosa was Shahbaz sharif's chief secy.. so i knew this wasnt possible...otherwise Nasir Khosa would never hv been shabaz sharif's chief secy.. but inhon ne ye jhoot....itna spread kiya.tht many ppl believe it now. Aur aisy aisy jhootay screen shots.. ppl taunt him..ke divorce SHahbaz sharif ne di...Tu badla Nawaz sharif se kiun?is hadd tak ghatya log hian yeh.. phir main ne pata nahi..ek khatoon ki pic bhi dekhi ke kisi ne likha tha..ke she is nargis khosa..sister of Jusice Khosa..jisay dovorce hui thee.. main soch rahi thee ke bechari pata nahi kaun hai? Jisay scandalise karrahay hain..

I always knew tht this theory was nothing but a lie.. but ye baat confirm is tarah hui... tht i bought Tariq Khosa's book recently .. us main zikr tha..tht they are four brothers and a sister.. aur sister ka naam Nilofer hai.. nargis khosa tu inki sister ka naam bhi nahi... naam tak jhoot spread kiya hai in ghatya logon ne.. pata nahi..kon hai nargis khosa..jis ko inki sister banaa diya?

You cant imagine..mujhe us din kitna shadeed dukh hua..aut kitna shadeed ghussa aya..sharifs par.. is tarah family ko scandalise karna?.........twitter is full of this consipracy theory.. many ppl believe it now... i was surprised ke abhi tak kisi cyber crime walon ne is par action kiun naih liya?

i HATE sharifs soo much..tht u cant imagine... dil se badduaaein nikalti hian...

Mujhe ye judges ko jo bura bhala boltay hain..us se koi ziada farq nahi parta.. but is tarah ye log jo family members par attack kartay hain..ghalat scandalise kartay hain.. its too much.. itnay ghatya log sharifs ke ilaawa koi aur nahi hosaktay

Aur ab phir sharifs ke case main Justice Khosa ka lime light main aajana... jab ke is dafa tu unka objection hbi valid hai.. i dont want ke Justice Khosa..ya unki family par mazeed personal attacks hon.. bura bhala bolna..dhamkaana...ek alag baat hai...aur is tarah families ko target karna..woh bhi ladies ko... bilkol alag... ab phir jab ye inka case sunein ge tu dobara se in par aur inki family par attack shuru kardein ge... kia faida? Isnt it better tht he backs out of this case...esp..when for once..sharif's objection is valid too..on his presence in this bench?

I still don't think that their objection is valid because the five judges remarks are just queries from councils to better understand the cases before them. The order by the five bench to reopen the case was made due to the obvious divergence and malpractice of NAB in not following the legal procedure and appealing the case in SCP to take the case through its due process life cycle.

I don't think that the above makes it a valid argument that Honourable Justice Khosa has made up his mind already and should back down from this case but on the contrary, he was a member of a bench that ordered NAB to correct its wrongful decision to let go of a case without appealing in superior court.

The actual hudaibya case's has never seen the light of day in front of the Supreme Court so there is no case of a judge already making up his mind about something that has not legally transpired to date.
 
The order by the five bench to reopen the case was made due to the obvious divergence and malpractice of NAB in not following the legal procedure and appealing the case in SCP to take the case through its due process life cycle.

The actual hudaibya case's has never seen the light of day in front of the Supreme Court so there is no case of a judge already making up his mind about something that has not legally transpired to date.

Is waqt Hudaibya case SC main nahi aaraha.. is waqt sirf NAB ki appeal par decision hi hona hai... NAB has appealed in SC to reverse LHC decision where it quashed the hudaibya reference and stopped NAB from re investigating the matter... NAB will say..reverse LHC decision.. and SC will just say (most likely ) tht ok ..we reverse LHC decision...and you can re investigate hudaibya reference... uske baad...Nab will reinvestgate..then file the reference in accountabiliy court.. uske baad phir lahore high court and then SC

Abhi kal ki proceedings SC ne hudaibya refernce case par koi decision nahi dena hai... abhi tu sirf NAB ki appeal par decision dena hai..on re investigating the matter.. NAB ki appeal par main keh rahi thee tht Justice Khosa has made his mind already as you yourself said tht 5 member bench ordered NAB to appeal in SC... infatc Justice Khosa ne tu us se bhtt pehle panama verdict likhdiya tha ke ...LHC decision was wrong..aur ab yehi case unke pass aaraha hia that LHC decision was wrong and NAB has asked to reverse the deciison.
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Dont get me wrong.. u know i love reading his verdicts.. one part of me..is very happy th he will be heading the bench.... aur sharifs par mazeed inke remarks bhi aasaktay hain..unki mazeed chitrol hoskati hai......but when i think abt his family being targetted again..then i become double minded..

Waisy tu sharifs sab judges ko bura bhala boltay hain but since he is the next CJ... Tu in se woh kuch ziada hi insecure hian..and they target him in the worst possible manner

If he heads this bench...ab pata nahi..mazeed..kis tarah inki family ko target karein ge? Aur kis kis family member ko scandalise karein ge? I think theywill scandalise him or his famiily members with even more venom.. do u want his family members..including ladies to be targetted again? Bas ye woh point hai.. where i want him tht he backs out of this case..

Ya tu CJ ...is bench main saaray hi judges panama bench walay rakhtay..ke...joint responsibility hoti...jaisy panama implementation bench walay judges rahk letay...ya panama case ke koi se bhi 3 judges including him...lekin panama case ke judges main se inko akelay kiun rakha..? Ke saara attack..sirf in par hi ho? Sharifs ka target ka sirf yehi honge.. i wanted ke ya tu is bench main saaray judges panama case walay hotay ya phir koi bhi na hota...panama judges main se..
 
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Is waqt Hudaibya case SC main nahi aaraha.. is waqt sirf NAB ki appeal par decision hi hona hai... NAB has appealed in SC to reverse LHC decision where it quashed the hudaibya reference and stopped NAB from re investigating the matter... NAB will say..reverse LHC decision.. and SC will just say (most likely ) tht ok ..we reverse LHC decision...and you can re investigate hudaibya reference... uske baad...Nab will reinvestgate..then file the reference in accountabiliy court.. uske baad phir lahore high court and then SC

Abhi kal ki proceedings SC ne hudaibya refernce case par koi decision nahi dena hai... abhi tu sirf NAB ki appeal par decision dena hai..on re investigating the matter.. NAB ki appeal par main keh rahi thee tht Justice Khosa has made his mind already as you yourself said tht 5 member bench ordered NAB to appeal in SC... infatc Justice Khosa ne tu us se bhtt pehle panama verdict likhdiya tha ke ...LHC decision was wrong..aur ab yehi case unke pass aaraha hia that LHC decision was wrong and NAB has asked to reverse the deciison.

I understand and agree. Thank you for reminding me about Honourable Justice Khosa's judgment as I overlooked that part in my earlier reply but let me explain something i consider a blessing in disguise without actually writing about it in so many words; I am glad that CJP has appointed two other judges not part of Panama bench along with Honourable Justice Khosa. I hope that CJP appoints as many other judges as possible in appeals or references related to the Sharifs before the actual appeal against lower courts verdicts of current references reach SCP. :angel:

Ya tu CJ ...is bench main saaray hi judges panama bench walay rakhtay..ke...joint responsibility hoti...jaisy panama implementation bench walay judges rahk letay...ya panama case ke koi se bhi 3 judges including him...lekin panama case ke judges main se inko akelay kiun rakha..? Ke saara attack..sirf in par hi ho? Sharifs ka target ka sirf yehi honge.. i wanted ke ya tu is bench main saaray judges panama case walay hotay ya phir koi bhi na hota...panama judges main se..
I totally support Your thoughts for the welfare of Honourable Justice Khosa and his family and your thoughts are admirable.

The nature of Judicial jobs have changed since the start of struggle for freedom of judiciary and the Honourable Judges should be commended and supported by civil society against the corrupt and their allies in disguise of pseudo liberal mafia always chanting the mantra of India against army and helping escape CIA Stooges like Hussain Haqqani in the name of "due process" of our friend @Syed.Ali.Haider but who only shout when Musharraf escapes through the same loop hole intentionally ignored by the same lot in the name of due process and human rights and no body speaks against it because they also use it to save the likes of Hussain Haqqani when required... What shining examples of selective demands of due process :haha:

Aik hee saff maen kharay ho gaay Asma Jahangir, Maryam, Haqqani aur Nawaz!
(in the name of due process actually happening but deliberately maligned)
Na koi corrupt raha, na mujrim, na Banda Nawaz!

He takes too many vacations ... not fair!
:p:Computer says 'No':p:
 

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