Palestinian Resistance Artillery

[500]

Their rockets are the best thing that ever happened to Israel politically, and we both can act dumb here but we both know that without these rockets Israel would have been forced to take the API.

Only one who benefits from Hamas rockets in Israel are settlers.

Israel planned to evacuate 90% of West Bank in 2006, but Hamas rockets foiled that plan.

Realignment plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Falcon29]

To you and to me the Palestinian cause is enough of a Moral cause, but that's just it, you and me Hazzy.

Disagree here. The majority of the world sees Israel is an oppressive state and supports the Palestinian cause. The leaders don't. The populations do.

If you meant military action for Palestine then that may be restricted to us. Which is not a problem. The obstacles are our own people who make that a problem.

Yeah Fatah did that, but Hamas didn't, and you know what happened?

Nothing happened, nothing changed, Israel's policy is what it is and nothing will change it. You're trying to imply the world will turn against Israel, no, it won't, it didn't then and wouldn't now. It didn't create Israel in order to turn against it in the future. They know very well what the Zionist movement demanded from them and exactly what it means.

I'm opposed to us speaking with a propagandist who's only intention is misinform the world and demonize the Palestinians.

Like the propaganda above he's trying to feed you. Which was a unilateral plan. Just like in Gaza, where people in Gaza have no basic right/sovereignty/under siege but only difference is the settlements are gone. In the West Bank they have way too many settlements, it's impossible to compare to Gaza. They withdrew from Gaza because they couldn't handle the population and the settlements were few, not out of any peaceful intentions.

 

[Mosamania]

@Mosamania

Address this part of my post:


.................

They never talk about their part(which is the problem). Our Arab brothers would do much more to help if we could. However, US/West/Israel dictate the whole policy in this region. In Syria, they refuse to arm FSA because two things:

1. FSA doesn't want to support Israel's interests.
2. FSA wants to form a civilized Syrian state with Islamic Law, an army of Islamic nature(fighting for right causes).

FSA doesn't want to do #1 so they prefer this Syrian crisis to go on for decades until vast majority of Syrian infrastructure is destroyed so it is impossible for an Islamic army. Only reason West cut support to FSA is because they refused to be pro-Israel and expressed intent to cooperate with other Islamic movements in Syria.

They hate Muslims/Islam/Islamic policy/Islamic driven people. When will you all wake up to this.

.......

You know politics and understand this very well.

The truth is you don't know the solution to this. You are hopeless, the whole Arab world is hopeless in stopping Israel. But, at the same time you see a point in discouraging their right to arm. And I see this as why Arab world takes out their frustration on us.

Because Israel keeps repeating the same pathetic lies which create an environment where the more rights we strip the Palestinians of the closer we get to two-state solution. It's a game which they will keep prolonging until the West Bank is completely theirs.

............................

@Developereo

I would appreciate if you got involved in this debate as well. You know the history better than I do.

.............

Look at what the Israeli colonization IDF forces are up to today:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=837688696273552

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=837367409639014

I don't wish to take about FSA here as it is a completely different topic. Here is what you need to learn Hazzy, Israel after 1973 were forced into playing the waiting game instead of a once and for all solution to their problem which was Palestinians.

We too can adopt the waiting game into our own benefit, we can get a two state solution along the 1967 borders, that will make an official internationally recognized border, one thing Israel has been doing better than us in the international game, and that is by far the only reason why they won. They know how to use it for their benefit, being the little kid that keeps screaming "No, no no no no no", guess what, no one is going to take you seriously if you do that. They are smart, and they played their game very well, however right now we are playing their own game better than they do, international opinion has gone down sharply in regards to Israel, because we understood the Moral Law here in the Gulf and have employed it effectively. Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiyah are the two biggest news networks in the Arab world and in fact one of the biggest in the entire world.

If Hamas truly disarms and join Fatah, and these whole pictures of masked men carrying rockets like idiots are gone, then you will find a very lonely Israel, not even the US can justify helping it then.

Only one who benefits from Hamas rockets in Israel are settlers.

Israel planned to evacuate 90% of West Bank in 2006, but Hamas rockets foiled that plan.

Realignment plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am interested to know, where do you fall in regards to Israeli politics? Do you support Likud and Settlers?

Disagree here. The majority of the world sees Israel is an oppressive state and supports the Palestinian cause. The leaders don't. The populations do.

If you meant military action for Palestine then that may be restricted to us. Which is not a problem. The obstacles are our own people who make that a problem.



Nothing happened, nothing changed, Israel's policy is what it is and nothing will change it. You're trying to imply the world will turn against Israel, no, it won't, it didn't then and wouldn't now. It didn't create Israel in order to turn against it in the future. They know very well what the Zionist movement demanded from them and exactly what it means.

I'm opposed to us speaking with a propagandist who's only intention is misinform the world and demonize the Palestinians.

Like the propaganda above he's trying to feed you. Which was a unilateral plan. Just like in Gaza, where people in Gaza have no basic right/sovereignty/under siege but only difference is the settlements are gone. In the West Bank they have way too many settlements, it's impossible to compare to Gaza. They withdrew from Gaza because they couldn't handle the population and the settlements were few, not out of any peaceful intentions.

Oh but Israel itself has changed, you also have to take into account the internal make up of Israel, not all Israelis are war mongerers and settler drivers like the Likud, and you need to win Israel from the inside, by terrorizing the Israeli population you are making the Israelis who are screaming for peace and to go back to 1967 borders argument weak, something that you shouldn't do. In fact you should support these voices inside of Israel, not curtail it like Hamas is doing. Trust me Hazzy, your idea of resistance with inaccurate rockets and rusty AKMs will only make Benjamin and his wing even stronger.

 

[500]

Like the propaganda above he's trying to feed you. Which was a unilateral plan. Just like in Gaza, where people in Gaza have no basic right/sovereignty/under siege but only difference is the settlements are gone. In the West Bank they have way too many settlements, it's impossible to compare to Gaza. They withdrew from Gaza because they couldn't handle the population and the settlements were few, not out of any peaceful intentions.

Israel would go out of 90% West Bank in 2006 if not the Hamas rockets.

And if not Hamas suicide attacks in 1990-es there would be a Palestinian state by 2000 most probably.

I am interested to know, where do you fall in regards to Israeli politics? Do you support Likud and Settlers?

No I dislike those.

 

[Falcon29]

I don't wish to take about FSA here as it is a completely different topic. Here is what you need to learn Hazzy, Israel after 1973 were forced into playing the waiting game instead of a once and for all solution to their problem which was Palestinians.

Talk to us then. Approach the Palestinians in secret. Not in public, it's also hard to trust any government which cooperates with Israel. Any cooperation should end. Approach us, ask us to follow a plan and give us guarantees. Let make it clear to you, nobody in Gaza trusts the PA. Hamas already joined the PA. But, any game to give control of Gaza to PA won't work. Hamas will remain in control of Gaza. The Palestinian people want this. Don't interfere in our affairs and ask Egypt to open the border. If you say do elections, then so be it. Hamas will win and once again you guys will try arming Fatah to attempt a coup like last time.

Nobody trusts an Arab world with Sisi's likes. Don't play any games in trying to give Fatah dominance over everything to suit you. We support Islam and an Islamic government in Gaza. We don't want a strictly Fatah government which allows settlements/cooperation with Israel.

And respect our soldiers, they were masks for security reasons.

I am interested to know, where do you fall in regards to Israeli politics? Do you support Likud and Settlers?

He's going to tell you he's a liberal even though he's purely Likud/pro-Settlers/anti-Palestinian. But will of course say Palestinians are to blame for that. That's how far their propaganda goes.

No I dislike them.

Bogus, you are Likud and Likud is 500. There's no difference in your views. 90% of your people support the Likud which governs Israel as well. You support everything they stand for. All your posts confirm this as well.

 

[Mosamania]

Talk to us then. Approach the Palestinians in secret. Not in public, it's also hard to trust any government which cooperates with Israel. Any cooperation should end. Approach us, ask us to follow a plan and give us guarantees. Let make it clear to you, nobody in Gaza trusts the PA. Hamas already joined the PA. But, any game to give control of Gaza to PA won't work. Hamas will remain in control of Gaza. The Palestinian people want this. Don't interfere in our affairs and ask Egypt to open the border. If you say do elections, then so be it. Hamas will win and once again you guys will try arming Fatah to attempt a coup like last time.

Nobody trusts an Arab world with Sisi's likes. Don't play any games in trying to give Fatah dominance over everything to suit you. We support Islam and an Islamic government in Gaza. We don't want a strictly Fatah government which allows settlements/cooperation with Israel.

And respect our soldiers, they were masks for security reasons.




He's going to tell you he's a liberal even though he's purely Likud/pro-Settlers/anti-Palestinian. But will of course say Palestinians are to blame for that. That's how far their propaganda goes.



Bogus, you are Likud and Likud is 500. There's no difference in your views. 90% of your people support the Likud which governs Israel as well. You support everything they stand for. All your posts confirm this as well.

Of course he would say he supports policies by Likud here, he is on the defensive in this forum and I know perfectly well what feels like, so I wouldn't give him a hard time over it. Fatah is actually the best out of the two in fighting Israel. they have taken up the political fight instead of the military one, and of course Likud is banking on increasing support for Hamas in Gaza by indiscriminate bombings and civilian casualties which polarizes the people of Gaza, it falls in line with the current policies of Israeli government that people in Gaza support Hamas so that they can get a free hand in increasing settlements with impunity.

I dislike those.

What do you believe is the best way to achieve peace in regards to this whole conflict?

 

[Falcon29]

Of course he would say he supports policies by Likud here, he is on the defensive in this forum and I know perfectly well what feels like, so I wouldn't give him a hard time over it. Fatah is actually the best out of the two in fighting Israel. they have taken up the political fight instead of the military one, and of course Likud is banking on increasing support for Hamas in Gaza by indiscriminate bombings and civilian casualties which polarizes the people of Gaza, it falls in line with the current policies of Israeli government that people in Gaza support Hamas so that they can get a free hand in increasing settlements with impunity.

No, he isn't on the defensive by the nature of his posts. I'm on the defensive. Anyways, respond to my post. You haven't done that.

 

[Mosamania]

No, he isn't on the defensive by the nature of his posts. I'm on the defensive. Anyways, respond to my post. You haven't done that.

Which question??

 

[Falcon29]

Which question??

Talk to us then. Approach the Palestinians in secret. Not in public, it's also hard to trust any government which cooperates with Israel. Any cooperation should end. Approach us, ask us to follow a plan and give us guarantees. Let make it clear to you, nobody in Gaza trusts the PA. Hamas already joined the PA. But, any game to give control of Gaza to PA won't work. Hamas will remain in control of Gaza. The Palestinian people want this. Don't interfere in our affairs and ask Egypt to open the border. If you say do elections, then so be it. Hamas will win and once again you guys will try arming Fatah to attempt a coup like last time.

Nobody trusts an Arab world with Sisi's likes. Don't play any games in trying to give Fatah dominance over everything to suit you. We support Islam and an Islamic government in Gaza. We don't want a strictly Fatah government which allows settlements/cooperation with Israel.

 

[500]

Bogus, you are Likud and Likud is 500. There's no difference in your views. 90% of your people support the Likud which governs Israel as well. You support everything they stand for. All your posts confirm this as well.

In 2006, after the pullout from Gaza people of Israel, including me, voted for Olmert who came out with the Realignment plan, which included the pullout from 90% of West Bank.

But Hamas rockets and tunnels foiled that plan. People realized that if Hamas comes to power in West Bank they could build tunnels and fire mortars into Tel Aviv. Because of these attacks the support for right wing support in Israel boosted.

Same thing Hamas did in 1996. When month before elections they made 4 bloody suicide attacks. As result Likud won with marginal advantage (less than 1%).

 

[Falcon29]

In 2006, after the pullout from Gaza people of Israel, including me, voted for Olmert who came out with the Realignment plan, which included the pullout from 90% of West Bank.

But Hamas rockets and tunnels foiled that plan. People realized that if Hamas comes to power in West Bank they could build tunnels and fire mortars into Tel Aviv. Because of these attacks the support for right wing support in Israel boosted.

Same thing Hamas did in 1996. When month before elections they made 4 bloody suicide attacks. As result Likud won with marginal advantage (less than 1%).

Stop lying dude, you live all the way in the north. In 2005 there were few rockets hitting one area in the south in response to Israel attacks on Gaza. There were no such thing as tunnels either. And those tunnels seen today all were used to attack military targets. Gaza had no sovereignty after Israel withdrew it's forces/settlers. Israel still maintained all control over aspects of life in Gaza.

Israel's plan was unilateral just like in Gaza in order for Israel to get away with declare borders. It had nothing to do with negotiations because Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state where the Palestinians control their own resources and have the rights of a basic state.

 

[Mosamania]

Talk to us then. Approach the Palestinians in secret. Not in public, it's also hard to trust any government which cooperates with Israel. Any cooperation should end. Approach us, ask us to follow a plan and give us guarantees. Let make it clear to you, nobody in Gaza trusts the PA. Hamas already joined the PA. But, any game to give control of Gaza to PA won't work. Hamas will remain in control of Gaza. The Palestinian people want this. Don't interfere in our affairs and ask Egypt to open the border. If you say do elections, then so be it. Hamas will win and once again you guys will try arming Fatah to attempt a coup like last time.

Nobody trusts an Arab world with Sisi's likes. Don't play any games in trying to give Fatah dominance over everything to suit you. We support Islam and an Islamic government in Gaza. We don't want a strictly Fatah government which allows settlements/cooperation with Israel.

We do approach Palestine, hell I don't think there is a single Arab country that doesn't approach Palestine as much as we do, however, Saudi policy in regards to Palestine revolves around the Arab Peace Initiative for which Hamas has staunchly opposed in favour of an armed resistance, while our solution is primarily a political one instead of an armed one which I agree with my government in this regards that it is pointless.

Sisi's policy was in fact played by the fact that Hamas was supporting the Sinai Muslim Brotherhood offshoot, since Hamas is an offshoot of the MB, an organization considered to be a terrorist organization, in fact I do deem that one of Saudi Arabia's biggest follies in its history was supporting the MB back in the 1960s and early 1970s. Which ultimately lead to disastrous consequences for our country, which is why I harbour a personal dislike for them.

Also I don't see anything wrong with cooperating with Israel to advance our own interests, wither it was economic, political or military one. After all we do ourselves stand to benefit from it. To completely frown and shun our faces at the idea means that our governments that refuses to do so have failed us as citizens from pursuing our interests as a whole for an emotional reason, which the first step to the destruction of any nation.

In 2006, after the pullout from Gaza people of Israel, including me, voted for Olmert who came out with the Realignment plan, which included the pullout from 90% of West Bank.

But Hamas rockets and tunnels foiled that plan. People realized that if Hamas comes to power in West Bank they could build tunnels and fire mortars into Tel Aviv. Because of these attacks the support for right wing support in Israel boosted.

Same thing Hamas did in 1996. When month before elections they made 4 bloody suicide attacks. As result Likud won with marginal advantage (less than 1%).

Don't you think it is funny how Hamas always makes these misadventures around the time that the Likud and settlers are going against a disadvantage in Israeli political circles, and always derive voters opinion towards them?

 

[500]

In 2005 there were few rockets hitting one area in the south in response to Israel attacks on Gaza.

Hamas started rocket attacks when they blew own people on rally:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/international/middleeast/24mideast.html?_r=0

They blamed Israel and started rocket attacks

There were no such thing as tunnels either.

How Gilad Shalit was abducted then?

Hamas foiled peace process in 90-es and brought Likud to power in 1996.
Hamas foiled the the Realignment plan in 2006.

Don't you think it is funny how Hamas always makes these misadventures around the time that the Likud and settlers are going against a disadvantage in Israeli political circles, and always derive voters opinion towards them?

They both are interested in neverending conflict.

 

[Falcon29]

We do approach Palestine

Stop putting unnecessary confusion into this. You asked for us to unilaterally strip ourselves of one of our major rights. I am saying if the Arab world truly expects that it should approach the Palestinians and put forth a plan. We aren't going to strip ourselves of a right as a pre-condition for nothing. If there isn't a plan/timetable/guarantee then I have no clue why you're asking for this.

You're putting all this emphasis on the Palestinians and yet not one thing towards the Israeli's. It's not a one way street.

Palestine revolves around the Arab Peace Initiative for which Hamas has staunchly opposed in favour of an armed resistance

You're lying here. Hamas doesn't oppose a two state solution. Israel does.

Sisi's policy was in fact played by the fact that Hamas was supporting the Sinai Muslim Brotherhood offshoot

Again, you're lying here. There is no such thing as an MB offshoot in the Sinai and neither does Hamas have anything to do with what goes on in Egypt.

since Hamas is an offshoot of the MB, an organization considered to be a terrorist organization

Nobody considers the MB to be a terrorist organization besides one or two Arab states. Hamas is Hamas, a Palestinian Islamic Movement. It has no hostility against anyone but the people colonizing our land.

Which ultimately lead to disastrous consequences for our country, which is why I harbour a personal dislike for them.

I don't care about the MB, dislike them all you want. Has nothing to do with Hamas. Do you support a unity government made up of all factions? Okay then.

The point is that you're making demands for no specific reasons as if this can all be done alone. When Fatah did the same thing and got nothing for

Also I don't see anything wrong with cooperating with Israel to advance our own interests, wither it was economic, political or military one. After all we do ourselves stand to benefit from it. To completely frown and shun our faces at the idea means that our governments that refuses to do so have failed us as citizens from pursuing our interests as a whole for an emotional reason, which the first step to the destruction of any nation.

I don't oppose Arab cooperation with Israel only if Israel accepts the Arab Peace Initiative. As for my personal taste, even then I would reject any form of cooperation with Israel for my people.

Hamas started rocket attacks when they blew own people on rally:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/international/middleeast/24mideast.html?_r=0

They blamed Israel and started rocket attacks

Again, you're misinforming people. The rockets were fired in response to an Israeli raid in the West Bank which killed 3 Palestinians.

Gaza was still under total Israeli control keep in mind. Israel had been cracking down on Palestinians in Gaza for decades. Even in 2004. There was no compromise. It was still a state of conflict.

How Gilad Shalit was captured then?

In response to Israeli shelling which killed a family of 8.

Hamas isn't opposed to a two state solution with genuine Palestinian sovereignty and they have reached out to Israel multiple times to make this clear. In Gaza during 2006, 2007, 2009, etc..

........
@500

Get some sleep. I will resume with you tomorrow and I'm hoping you're willing to have reasonable dialogue with me where we agree to disagree. If you're willing to do that we can talk. There's no reason we can't.

I prefer we look at the future as well and forget the past.