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Palestinian Resistance Artillery

I'm no friend of Israel but firing thousands of rockets and mortars aimlessly isn't the answer.
you are just asking for some 250lb FLM to hit your house,school, or hospital

I already you told you this was a defensive war. And many of the rockets were fired at military bases. No, you aren't asking for that. Israel attacks homes, schools, hospitals, civilians with an intention of mass murder and terror. Palestinians return the favor but with much more proportionality in self defense against colonialism. Attacks on Palestinians are bound to happen as long as Israel intends to attack/colonize them.

Now, if you want more indepth discussion on this there is plenty of it in the ME section. Keep this defense related and no more politics. I'm being serious.
 
Those things with accuracy +-3 km are not "artillery" but plain and simple terror tool. Plus they hide them among their own civilians. Making a double crime.

If all the money they invested in terror they were investing in development they could be a Singapore by now.
 
meh, the cycle of violence is never going to end over there :guns:
I don't want to get into depth honestly.
 
Those things with accuracy +-3 km are not "artillery" but plain and simple terror tool. Plus they hide them among their own civilians. Making a double crime.

If all the money they invested in terror they were investing in development they could be a Singapore by now.

It's not the same kind of artillery Israel uses if that's what you were thinking of.

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According to this senior U.S. officer, who had access to the July 21 Pentagon summary of the previous 24 hours of Israeli operations, the internal report showed that 11 Israeli artillery battalions —a minimum of 258 artillery pieces in all, according to this officer’s estimate — had pumped at least 7,000 high explosive shells into the Gaza neighborhood, which included a barrage of some 4,800 shells during the seven-hour period marking the height of the operation. Senior U.S. officers were stunned by the report

Artillery pieces used during the operation included a mix of Soltam M71 guns and U.S.-manufactured Paladin M109s (a 155-mm howitzer), each of which can fire three shells per minute. “The only possible reason for doing that is to kill a lot of people in as short a period of time as possible,” said the senior U.S. military officer. “It’s not mowing the lawn,” he added, referring to a popular IDF term for periodic military operations against Hamas in Gaza. “It’s removing the topsoil.”


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Official Pentagon report reveals U.S military "shocked" by Israel's conduct in Shujaiyya
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Btw, this thread is off limits for political discussion. Keep it military related.
 
These rockets being extremely inaccurate makes them useless in a sustained battle operation. If I was a commander there I would disable this entire force, only thing it serves to do is illuminate positions of soldiers and make them liable to an accurate counter attack.

The resistance would have a much higher efficacy if they focused on anti-armour and anti-personnel weaponry. (Of course I am ignoring the disastrous political aspect of this as well as per your request)
 
First of all Israel warned about the Shujaiya 5 days before. Hamas urged civilians to stay and serve them as human shields. Another war crime by Hamas.
Secondly US used illegal M110 incendiary rounds in Fallujah, so these anonymous clown officers should keep quiet.


Btw, this thread is off limits for political discussion. Keep it military related.
My comment was 100% military. The accuracy of Hamas rockets is +-3 km so its not any artillery but pure terror. In addition storing them in dense populated areas makes it a double war crime.
 
These rockets being extremely inaccurate makes them useless in a sustained battle operation. If I was a commander there I would disable this entire force, only thing it serves to do is illuminate positions of soldiers and make them liable to an accurate counter attack.

The resistance would have a much higher efficacy if they focused on anti-armour and anti-personnel weaponry. (Of course I am ignoring the disastrous political aspect of this as well as per your request)

They do focus an anti-armor/anti-personnel weaponry. For the West Bank that is all that's necessary. For Gaza it is a different case. They need retaliatory weapons. It will take time to improve accuracy. You are speaking from a perspective where you have unlimited resources and as if you're developing a military of a sovereign nation. And they are increasing accuracy. GPS guided missiles, no body has them in the region. It's not an easy thing.

This is the political discussion I'm talking about as well. People here come to attack the Palestinians. You don't have an intention to improve their capabilities with your 'wisdom'. You reject their right to security(But, you support it for yourself). If you have a bias against them it's hard to understand how you start a discussion on their military assets.
 
They do focus an anti-armor/anti-personnel weaponry. For the West Bank that is all that's necessary. For Gaza it is a different case. They need retaliatory weapons. It will take time to improve accuracy. You are speaking from a perspective where you have unlimited resources and as if you're developing a military of a sovereign nation. And they are increasing accuracy. GPS guided missiles, no body has them in the region. It's not an easy thing.

This is the political discussion I'm talking about as well. People here come to attack the Palestinians. You don't have an intention to improve their capabilities with your 'wisdom'. You reject their right to security(But, you support it for yourself). If you have a bias against them it's hard to understand how you start a discussion on their military assets.

I am speaking from a pure military stand point, they serve no purpose in actually disabling enemy assets, maybe out of all of these only mortars do, and no I am speaking from the perspective of guerilla warfare, these are rockets and not missiles, and rockets are either used in really heavy fire fashion over a certain area the way MLRS is used, or you use guided missiles.

And as you said as Palestine does not have the capability of achieving either, the only thing these weapons serve to do is illuminate target positions for Israeli Military to attack. However it would be much more effective to set up city defences against the advances of armoured columns and infantry squads. Hazzy my dear friend, you need to understand that the best people who truly wish the best for you are the ones who disagree with you, the ones who agree with you on everything are the most dangerous people to have around you, through disagreement and debate only do we become better.

Palestinians are my people as much as Saudi people are, my best childhood friend was a Palestinian, my neighbour where I grew up and went to play with everyday was a Palestinian, and everything I say is from a wish deep in my heart to better the lives and status of Palestinians in the world, and yes I disagree with you in many things, it is because I believe that the actions of Palestinians currently in Palestine are harming them instead of bettering their lives.
 
I am speaking from a pure military stand point, they serve no purpose in actually disabling enemy assets, maybe out of all of these only mortars do, and no I am speaking from the perspective of guerilla warfare, these are rockets and not missiles, and rockets are either used in really heavy fire fashion over a certain area the way MLRS is used, or you use guided missiles.

I know this , I'm informed. But, you need to take the context of the conflict into account. These rockets disable life in Israel, it is more symbolic that's true for now. But, it manages to send a message that your people won't see calm if ours don't. We really can't improve our arsenal without any help.
And as you said as Palestine does not have the capability of achieving either, the only thing these weapons serve to do is illuminate target positions for Israeli Military to attack.

Today is different, Israel can't locate the launchers as much as they used to. They are moved from place to place underground.
However it would be much more effective to set up city defences against the advances of armoured columns and infantry squads.

We have that, which is why Israel resorted to pretty much carpet bombing the Shajaiyah. 60% of the homes in that district were destroyed. They can't fight a ground war, they can only bomb, bomb and bomb civilians. And the US keeps supplying them with more.

Hazzy my dear friend, you need to understand that the best people who truly wish the best for you are the ones who disagree with you, the ones who agree with you on everything are the most dangerous people to have around you, through disagreement and debate only do we become better.

Iran and Hamas don't have ties anymore. They are very minimal. That doesn't reflect my personal view on Iranians. For this conflict though, we don't want war trust me. We have no other choice. Palestine is under attack. Economically, politically, socially and militarily. Gaza bears the brunt of the military attack every time because Palestinians want to be free from siege. Our leaders/strategists study this well. They know the long term effects of demilitarizing more than we all do. If our Arab leaders can't take a lead in this then the Palestinians will do what is right in their eyes.

Because, Israel has one policy towards which has been the same for decades. It's to push us out of our land through all possible means. So if you want us to develop better weapons how can we do so with with Arab nations preventing this? And if you want this status quo to remain(Siege/occupation/theft of West Bank/Gaza), until how long should we tolerate it?

Palestinians are my people as much as Saudi people are, my best childhood friend was a Palestinian, my neighbour where I grew up and went to play with everyday was a Palestinian, and everything I say is from a wish deep in my heart to better the lives and status of Palestinians in the world, and yes I disagree with you in many things, it is because I believe that the actions of Palestinians currently in Palestine are harming them instead of bettering their lives.

I know this, we are all brothers and wish for the best. The thing is this is much more complicated than we think. It isn't about the simply 'solutions' Israel presents to the world which is all about destroying the Palestinians rights. Our right to economy, security, sovereignty, etc...

They never talk about their part(which is the problem). Our Arab brothers would do much more to help if we could. However, US/West/Israel dictate the whole policy in this region. In Syria, they refuse to arm FSA because two things:

1. FSA doesn't want to support Israel's interests.
2. FSA wants to form a civilized Syrian state with Islamic Law, an army of Islamic nature(fighting for right causes).

FSA doesn't want to do #1 so they prefer this Syrian crisis to go on for decades until vast majority of Syrian infrastructure is destroyed so it is impossible for an Islamic army. Only reason West cut support to FSA is because they refused to be pro-Israel and expressed intent to cooperate with other Islamic movements in Syria.

They hate Muslims/Islam/Islamic policy/Islamic driven people. When will you all wake up to this.

.......

You know politics and understand this very well.

The truth is you don't know the solution to this. You are hopeless, the whole Arab world is hopeless in stopping Israel. But, at the same time you see a point in discouraging their right to arm. And I see this as why Arab world takes out their frustration on us.

Because Israel keeps repeating the same pathetic lies which create an environment where the more rights we strip the Palestinians of the closer we get to two-state solution. It's a game which they will keep prolonging until the West Bank is completely theirs.
 
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These rockets being extremely inaccurate makes them useless in a sustained battle operation. If I was a commander there I would disable this entire force, only thing it serves to do is illuminate positions of soldiers and make them liable to an accurate counter attack.

The resistance would have a much higher efficacy if they focused on anti-armour and anti-personnel weaponry. (Of course I am ignoring the disastrous political aspect of this as well as per your request)
They know perfectly that their rockets are useless against military. The purpose of their rockets is simple:

1) Terrorize Israeli population.
2) Force Israel to react against dense populated Gaza areas so they could whine on CNN.

And they are highly successful in both.

ATGM on the other hand are good for defence but as offensive weapon they are pretty useless.
 
I know this , I'm informed. But, you need to take the context of the conflict into account. These rockets disable life in Israel, it is more symbolic that's true for now. But, it manages to send a message that your people won't see calm if ours don't. We really can't improve our arsenal without any help.


Today is different, Israel can't locate the launchers as much as they used to. They are moved from place to place underground.


We have that, which is why Israel resorted to pretty much carpet bombing the Shajaiyah. 60% of the homes in that district were destroyed. They can't fight a ground war, they can only bomb, bomb and bomb civilians. And the US keeps supplying them with more.



Iran and Hamas don't have ties anymore. They are very minimal. That doesn't reflect my personal view on Iranians. For this conflict though, we don't want war trust me. We have no other choice. Palestine is under attack. Economically, politically, socially and militarily. Gaza bears the brunt of the military attack every time because Palestinians want to be free from siege. Our leaders/strategists study this well. They know the long term effects of demilitarizing more than we all do. If our Arab leaders can't take a lead in this then the Palestinians will do what is right in their eyes.

Because, Israel has one policy towards which has been the same for decades. It's to push us out of our land through all possible means. So if you want us to develop better weapons how can we do so with with Arab nations preventing this? And if you want this status quo to remain(Siege/occupation/theft of West Bank/Gaza), until how long should we tolerate it?



I know this, we are all brothers and wish for the best. The thing is this is much more complicated than we think. It isn't about the simply 'solutions' Israel presents to the world which is all about destroying the Palestinians rights. Our right to economy, security, sovereignty, etc...

They never talk about their part(which is the problem). Our Arab brothers would do much more to help if we could. However, US/West/Israel dictate the whole policy in this region. In Syria, they refuse to arm FSA because two things:

1. FSA doesn't want to support Israel's interests.
2. FSA wants to form a civilized Syrian state with Islamic Law, an army of Islamic nature(fighting for right causes).

FSA doesn't want to do #1 so they prefer this Syrian crisis to go on for decades until vast majority of Syrian infrastructure is destroyed so it is impossible for an Islamic army.

.......

You know politics and understand this very well.

Hazzy in the book The Art of War by Sun Tzu he stated :"An army can not win a war if it was deprived of the Moral Law" what he meant by it is that an army must have a valid reason in accordance to people's eyes and the law of the land to go to war for it to achieve victory. In today's world if you wish to achieve any victory you must have even a semblance of the Moral Law with you into battle, Israel uses the weapons photographed here to derive its Moral Law from, and get away from world retribution towards its acts by showing these very photos, do you think the US would be able to support Israel by saying "Israel has the right to defend itself" had these photos not existed nor what these photos contain? They wouldn't be able to, it would bring US foreign policy to ruin in fact.

I don't want you to develop better weapons, in fact what I am about to say might seem crazy to you I don't any weapons except personal protection weapons, because it would eventually mean that Israel has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING for which they can exercise their policy of slowly taking over all of the land in Palestine, do you know what is Israel's biggest nightmare?
This is Israel's worst nightmare: Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A way which curtails Israel to a very small lot of land lacking any form of strategic depth and in fact handily curtailing everything they have been planning for since 1921, it is through this that Israel will trickle down to nothing more than a minor state in the region, along the same lines as Bahrain even, hell Bahrain GDP will be even higher than theirs.

These rockets Hamas is totting around, if anything serves Israel's interests so well, Israel would rather kill themselves than accept the Arab Peace Initiative, however if you go to them and say "Why don't you accept this plan?" They will say "Palestinians themselves don't want this plan and they will attack us constantly if we accept, look at Hamas and their rockets, and how it terrorizes our people", and through this Israel gets the Moral Law in its side in regards to global consciousness.

I did not want to bring Iran into this but since you did, the only thing Iran is doing is using the Palestinians to score brownie points with mindless Arabs, supplying very ineffective weapons to Gaza in the guise of "Supporting Palestinians" while in fact the only thing they are doing is ruining the best possible way in today's world to fight Israel. By forcing peace upon them, in the same route making Israel gain the Moral Law, and ruining this plan from coming to fruition.
 
They know perfectly that their rockets are useless against military. The purpose of their rockets is simple:

1) Terrorize Israeli population.
2) Force Israel to react against dense populated Gaza areas so they could whine on CNN.

And they are highly successful in both.

ATGM on the other hand are good for defence but as offensive weapon they are pretty useless.

Their rockets are the best thing that ever happened to Israel politically, and we both can act dumb here but we both know that without these rockets Israel would have been forced to take the API.
 
Hazzy in the book The Art of War by Sun Tzu he stated :"An army can not win a war if it was deprived of the Moral Law" what he meant by it is that an army must have a valid reason in accordance to people's eyes and the law of the land to go to war for it to achieve victory. In today's world if you wish to achieve any victory you must have even a semblance of the Moral Law with you into battle, Israel uses the weapons photographed here to derive its Moral Law from, and get away from world retribution towards its acts by showing these very photos, do you think the US would be able to support Israel by saying "Israel has the right to defend itself" had these photos not existed nor what these photos contain? They wouldn't be able to, it would bring US foreign policy to ruin in fact

I'm not an atheist like you. There is nothing moral in this world or Israel or the US. You should know better than that. The cause of Palestine is a moral cause. I already told you they fear nothing. They have one policy which the West/US supports and nothing will change it.
I don't want you to develop better weapons, in fact what I am about to say might seem crazy to you I don't any weapons except personal protection weapons, because it would eventually mean that Israel has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING for which they can exercise their policy of slowly taking over all of the land in Palestine, do you know what is Israel's biggest nightmare?
This is Israel's worst nightmare: Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The West Bank is disarmed completely. Israel will spit i that initiative's face and so will the Western World even if you get on your knees and beg them to accept it. This is very evident by the history of this conflict and the nature of Israel.
These rockets Hamas is totting around, if anything serves Israel's interests so well, Israel would rather kill themselves than accept the Arab Peace Initiative, however if you go to them and say "Why don't you accept this plan?" They will say "Palestinians themselves don't want this plan and they will attack us constantly if we accept, look at Hamas and their rockets, and how it terrorizes our people", and through this Israel gets the Moral Law in its side in regards to global consciousness.

Fatah already did this.
I did not want to bring Iran into this but since you did, the only thing Iran is doing is using the Palestinians to score brownie points with mindless Arabs, supplying very ineffective weapons to Gaza in the guise of "Supporting Palestinians" while in fact the only thing they are doing is ruining the best possible way in today's world to fight Israel. By forcing peace upon them, in the same route making Israel gain the Moral Law, and ruining this plan from coming to fruition.

I brought up Iran since I assumed you were referring to them in your earlier post. Iran doesn't supply Hamas anymore, I already told you this.

As I said. You didn't address my questions of the aftermath. You are making assumptions which we also made when Fatah disarmed. It's amazing in itself that illegal occupiers have their way while the onus is on the victims.

Keep the Israeli out of this. The Israeli's support every form of war against us. You know this, don't talk to them and give them credibility.

They know perfectly that their rockets are useless against military. The purpose of their rockets is simple:

1) Terrorize Israeli population.
2) Force Israel to react against dense populated Gaza areas so they could whine on CNN.

And they are highly successful in both.

ATGM on the other hand are good for defence but as offensive weapon they are pretty useless.

Your weapons/military are used to terrorize/mass murder/colonize the Palestinian population.
 
I'm not an atheist like you. There is nothing moral in this world or Israel or the US. You should know better than that. The cause of Palestine is a moral cause. I already told you they fear nothing. They have one policy which the West/US supports and nothing will change it.


The West Bank is disarmed completely. Israel will spit i that initiative's face and so will the Western World even if you get on your knees and beg them to accept it. This is very evident by the history of this conflict and the nature of Israel.


Fatah already did this.


I brought up Iran since I assumed you were referring to them in your earlier post. Iran doesn't supply Hamas anymore, I already told you this.

As I said. You didn't address my questions of the aftermath. You are making assumptions which we also made when Fatah disarmed. It's amazing in itself that illegal occupiers have their way while the onus is on the victims.

Keep the Israeli out of this. The Israeli's support every form of war against us. You know this, don't talk to them and give them credibility.



Your weapons/military are used to terrorize/mass murder/colonize the Palestinian population.

To you and to me the Palestinian cause is enough of a Moral cause, but that's just it, you and me Hazzy. Here we are taking about the entire world. And the entire world recognizes Israel as a sovereign state. And the way things work in the world right now is the way we should be thinking. Oh and also the nature of my religion has nothing to do with the conversation. And there is something that keeps Israel up at night, which is being left alone from world support. Hence the Moral Law I referred to earlier.

Yeah Fatah did that, but Hamas didn't, and you know what happened? Israel is saying "You want us to talk about peace to Palestinians? Okay which one? thus giving them even more credibility in their refusal of peace. And you know why the onus is on the victims?? Because Israel understand the game of politics better than you, having masked men carrying rockets does not go very well with the international community.

And yes, I would like to talk to the Israeli, because this is how all things must be settled, by talking. Not fighting if possible.
 
@Mosamania

Address this part of my post:


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They never talk about their part(which is the problem). Our Arab brothers would do much more to help if we could. However, US/West/Israel dictate the whole policy in this region. In Syria, they refuse to arm FSA because two things:

1. FSA doesn't want to support Israel's interests.
2. FSA wants to form a civilized Syrian state with Islamic Law, an army of Islamic nature(fighting for right causes).

FSA doesn't want to do #1 so they prefer this Syrian crisis to go on for decades until vast majority of Syrian infrastructure is destroyed so it is impossible for an Islamic army. Only reason West cut support to FSA is because they refused to be pro-Israel and expressed intent to cooperate with other Islamic movements in Syria.

They hate Muslims/Islam/Islamic policy/Islamic driven people. When will you all wake up to this.

.......

You know politics and understand this very well.

The truth is you don't know the solution to this. You are hopeless, the whole Arab world is hopeless in stopping Israel. But, at the same time you see a point in discouraging their right to arm. And I see this as why Arab world takes out their frustration on us.

Because Israel keeps repeating the same pathetic lies which create an environment where the more rights we strip the Palestinians of the closer we get to two-state solution. It's a game which they will keep prolonging until the West Bank is completely theirs.

............................

@Developereo

I would appreciate if you got involved in this debate as well. You know the history better than I do.

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Look at what the Israeli colonization IDF forces are up to today:
 
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