Solomon2
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Palestinian Arab struggle against Arabs
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Solomon2
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World Israel
Israeli Army Sees Rise in Christian Arab Recruits
March 7, 2014
Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers are seen during warfare training in Israel's northern El Yakim base, Feb. 27, 2014. Abir Sultan—EPA
The past year has seen a dramatic increase in Arab Christians enlisting in the Israeli army, doubling the number of each of the preceding three years — a sign, say some, of splintering loyalties among Israel's Palestinian population
Jewish Israelis are compelled to make themselves available to Israel’s military, but the obligation has never been applied to the 20 percent of Israeli citizens who identify as Palestinian, and are sometimes called Israeli Arabs. As descendants of the people that Jewish armies fought and defeated to create the state of Israel in 1948–but, who, unlike the 700,000 who fled or were forced out of their homes, were permitted to stay—young Palestinians living Israel were never expected to carry arms to defend it. Arab League Joins Abbas In Rejecting Israel As Jewish StatePalestinian Leader Says He Won’t Recognize Israel as a Jewish StateHere's An Updated Tally Of All The People Who Have Ever Died From A Marijuana Overdose Huffington PostThese Disturbing Fast Food Truths Will Make You Reconsider Your Lunch Huffington PostJoran van der Sloot Will Face U.S. Charges in Natalee Holloway Case People
Yet a few do. Last year 100 Arab Israelis joined the Israel Defense Forces, double the number of each of the preceding three years. All were Christians, “a minority within a minority,” notes Gabriel Naddaf, the Greek Orthodox priest who is promoting enlistment, and with it a controversial separate identity for the 160,000 Orthodox and Catholics among the 1.7 million Israeli citizens who regard themselves as Palestinian.
Many Israelis, led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, welcome the move, proudly displaying Arab Christian recruits as an indicator of the country’s commitment to a certain sort of pluralism, even as it presses negotiators for the Palestinians who live beyond Israel’s immediate borders to recognize Israel as “a Jewish state.”
Palestinian leaders regard IDF recruitment–as well as a Knesset vote last month designating a seat for Christians on an employment commission—as a cynical, divide-and-rule tactic intended to splinter the solidarity of a national liberation movement conceived, in the 1960s, around a newly emerged Palestinian identity. “It’s an expression of the way the Israeli system thinks and works,” says Hanan Ashrawi, a senior PLO official: “Dividing people, defining them by religion, trying to discriminate.”
Father Naddaf says that’s fine by him. In Israel, he says, military service is a key to success in life and Christians want to do better. “Enough of the lies regarding Christian identity and the nationality of the Christians in Israel,” Naddaf tells TIME. “We want to integrate into Israeli society. We want to contribute to the society we live in. And we want to represent ourselves. No one else will.”
The priest said Christians have learned from the examples of other non-Jews who advanced in Israeli society by serving in the military: the Druze and Bedouin, Arabic-speaking residents of Israel who have never identified as Palestinian. In 2012, along with two other Orthodox priests, Naddaf established the “Israeli-Christian Recruitment Forum” to encourage army enlistment. The forum has its own flag—a sword in the shape of a cross behind the Israel’s own Star of David standard—but the two other priests are gone. “Unfortunately they withdrew because of the threats,” says Naddaf, who has received so many threats to his own life that Israel’s internal security service rates him at level four on a scale of one to six, he says.
Which bring us to another driver of the nascent movement: The dire situation facing Christian populations from Iraq to Egypt to Syria. “We are caught between the hammer and anvil,” says Ezak Hallak, a Nazareth lawyer for the Forum, quoting a Hebrew expression. “In our hearts, we support Israel, the Jews. I think the Christians in the Middle East are getting slaughtered because we are not speaking what is in our hearts. Stand up for yourself. There is no other way to face the craziness of the radical Arabs. No other way in the world.”
How controversial is an Arab joining the IDF? After enlisting, Naddaf’s son, Jabron, was attacked on the street by a man shouting “traitor”—a word even his friends would have used just two years ago, Jabron Naddaf says, “but it’s not the case any more.” And indeed, the idea of serving in the IDF brought no strong reactions from a half dozen people—all Muslims—interviewed on the street in downtown Nazareth, the town where, according to lore, Christ came of age.
“Whoever wants to go in the army, he can go,” says Fareed Irshid, 49, a driver at Mary’s Well Taxi stand, adjacent to the site where tradition says the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Virgin. “I can’t come out against the laws of the state if I want to live here.”
“Even I said to my son: ‘If you want to you can go to the army,” says Issam Munasra, 51. “For the person, it gives you a lot if you go into the army. It builds you. And also you don’t feel you owe the state. You’ve given to them.
“You have to do something for the country,” Munasra says.”I’m a taxi driver for 30 years. Let’s say my son serves in the army, he can do better.”
The lone dissent was heard from Amir Sharif, 18, in the passenger seat of a sleek black sedan driven by his cousin. “It’s not our state,” he says. “We don’t get the rights that Jews are getting. If we were, then we should consider it.”
And yet, a few months ago, he considered it himself. “I thought about it a little bit,” Sharif says, and adds: “But you know, if you’re an Arab in the army, they send you to the frontline first.” He smiles. A little joke. “I don’t hate Israel,” he says.
Israeli Army Sees Rise in Christian Arab Recruits
March 7, 2014
Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers are seen during warfare training in Israel's northern El Yakim base, Feb. 27, 2014. Abir Sultan—EPA
The past year has seen a dramatic increase in Arab Christians enlisting in the Israeli army, doubling the number of each of the preceding three years — a sign, say some, of splintering loyalties among Israel's Palestinian population
Jewish Israelis are compelled to make themselves available to Israel’s military, but the obligation has never been applied to the 20 percent of Israeli citizens who identify as Palestinian, and are sometimes called Israeli Arabs. As descendants of the people that Jewish armies fought and defeated to create the state of Israel in 1948–but, who, unlike the 700,000 who fled or were forced out of their homes, were permitted to stay—young Palestinians living Israel were never expected to carry arms to defend it. Arab League Joins Abbas In Rejecting Israel As Jewish StatePalestinian Leader Says He Won’t Recognize Israel as a Jewish StateHere's An Updated Tally Of All The People Who Have Ever Died From A Marijuana Overdose Huffington PostThese Disturbing Fast Food Truths Will Make You Reconsider Your Lunch Huffington PostJoran van der Sloot Will Face U.S. Charges in Natalee Holloway Case People
Yet a few do. Last year 100 Arab Israelis joined the Israel Defense Forces, double the number of each of the preceding three years. All were Christians, “a minority within a minority,” notes Gabriel Naddaf, the Greek Orthodox priest who is promoting enlistment, and with it a controversial separate identity for the 160,000 Orthodox and Catholics among the 1.7 million Israeli citizens who regard themselves as Palestinian.
Many Israelis, led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, welcome the move, proudly displaying Arab Christian recruits as an indicator of the country’s commitment to a certain sort of pluralism, even as it presses negotiators for the Palestinians who live beyond Israel’s immediate borders to recognize Israel as “a Jewish state.”
Palestinian leaders regard IDF recruitment–as well as a Knesset vote last month designating a seat for Christians on an employment commission—as a cynical, divide-and-rule tactic intended to splinter the solidarity of a national liberation movement conceived, in the 1960s, around a newly emerged Palestinian identity. “It’s an expression of the way the Israeli system thinks and works,” says Hanan Ashrawi, a senior PLO official: “Dividing people, defining them by religion, trying to discriminate.”
Father Naddaf says that’s fine by him. In Israel, he says, military service is a key to success in life and Christians want to do better. “Enough of the lies regarding Christian identity and the nationality of the Christians in Israel,” Naddaf tells TIME. “We want to integrate into Israeli society. We want to contribute to the society we live in. And we want to represent ourselves. No one else will.”
The priest said Christians have learned from the examples of other non-Jews who advanced in Israeli society by serving in the military: the Druze and Bedouin, Arabic-speaking residents of Israel who have never identified as Palestinian. In 2012, along with two other Orthodox priests, Naddaf established the “Israeli-Christian Recruitment Forum” to encourage army enlistment. The forum has its own flag—a sword in the shape of a cross behind the Israel’s own Star of David standard—but the two other priests are gone. “Unfortunately they withdrew because of the threats,” says Naddaf, who has received so many threats to his own life that Israel’s internal security service rates him at level four on a scale of one to six, he says.
Which bring us to another driver of the nascent movement: The dire situation facing Christian populations from Iraq to Egypt to Syria. “We are caught between the hammer and anvil,” says Ezak Hallak, a Nazareth lawyer for the Forum, quoting a Hebrew expression. “In our hearts, we support Israel, the Jews. I think the Christians in the Middle East are getting slaughtered because we are not speaking what is in our hearts. Stand up for yourself. There is no other way to face the craziness of the radical Arabs. No other way in the world.”
How controversial is an Arab joining the IDF? After enlisting, Naddaf’s son, Jabron, was attacked on the street by a man shouting “traitor”—a word even his friends would have used just two years ago, Jabron Naddaf says, “but it’s not the case any more.” And indeed, the idea of serving in the IDF brought no strong reactions from a half dozen people—all Muslims—interviewed on the street in downtown Nazareth, the town where, according to lore, Christ came of age.
“Whoever wants to go in the army, he can go,” says Fareed Irshid, 49, a driver at Mary’s Well Taxi stand, adjacent to the site where tradition says the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Virgin. “I can’t come out against the laws of the state if I want to live here.”
“Even I said to my son: ‘If you want to you can go to the army,” says Issam Munasra, 51. “For the person, it gives you a lot if you go into the army. It builds you. And also you don’t feel you owe the state. You’ve given to them.
“You have to do something for the country,” Munasra says.”I’m a taxi driver for 30 years. Let’s say my son serves in the army, he can do better.”
The lone dissent was heard from Amir Sharif, 18, in the passenger seat of a sleek black sedan driven by his cousin. “It’s not our state,” he says. “We don’t get the rights that Jews are getting. If we were, then we should consider it.”
And yet, a few months ago, he considered it himself. “I thought about it a little bit,” Sharif says, and adds: “But you know, if you’re an Arab in the army, they send you to the frontline first.” He smiles. A little joke. “I don’t hate Israel,” he says.
Solomon2
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I did consider posting this in the PalArab stuggle for freedom thread but felt it more appropriate to stick it here, as a prime motivation for joining the IDF is their fear of other Arabs, especially the sort of fanatics supported by Saudi Arabia in Syria.
al-Hasani
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All of that is just Zionist propaganda that nobody takes seriously. Palestinians are not oppressed anywhere outside of the Zionist state that stole their land and even in KSA Palestinians are often favored to an absurd extent despite not having the credentials solely because of their situation.
What you Zionists dream about is for us to assimilate the Palestinians and give them citizenship so they can forget everything about their country and land. That way you will win the demographical battle but that is never going to happen.
Palestinains are Palestinians and deserve to live in their ancestral land not across the Arab world from Morocco in the West to Oman in the East.
All of your sources are just Zionist propaganda.
Falcon29
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Exactly, this is why they want to throw Gaza's problem on Egypt so Egypt would be responsible for their mess, but Egypt refuses to do so since it would legitimize the occupation.
Solomon2
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You might want to read the beginning of this thread so you can be better informed.
Solomon2
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Jordan and the Palestinians
A kingdom of two halves
Jordanians chafe at an emerging American plan for Israel-Palestine
Mar 8th 2014 | AMMAN | From the print edition
WESTERN powers have long found money a good way of persuading the Hashemites, who rule Jordan, to do their bidding. A century ago, T.E. Lawrence, a charismatic British officer, persuaded them to rebel against the rule of the Ottoman Turks by letting them loot the trains they blew up. In more modern times, hefty dollops of aid have persuaded them to provide military facilities for the Americans in their war in Iraq and to accommodate the region’s periodic splurges of refugees, most recently from Syria. Surely, Western officials say, for the right price, currently estimated in the tens of billions of dollars, the Jordanians will help John Kerry, America’s secretary of state (pictured above with King Abdullah) to fix a settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by absorbing the 4.5m Palestinians who live in the kingdom, including the 3.5m who are now Jordanian citizens.
Or will they? Indigenous Bedouin from Jordan’s East Bank, who number about 3m, worry that America’s plans to persuade Palestinian leaders to strip generations of refugees of their claimed “right of return” to what is now Israel would reduce Jordan’s original inhabitants to a permanent minority. Tribal leaders fret that the refugees, barred from Israel, would campaign for full rights in Jordan, over time turning the kingdom into a second Palestinian state. The Bedouin would lose their preferential access to government jobs. They might also be deprived of the skewed electoral system that has hitherto ensured that they control Jordan’s parliament. “Kerry is destroying our home,” says a Jordanian analyst. “He is trying to solve one conflict by creating another.”
Parliamentarians from Jordan’s East Bank (ie, non-Palestinians) intent on scuppering Mr Kerry’s plan say the Palestinians must uphold their right to return to Israel. Campaigners are denounced as American collaborators for calling for more rights for those 1m Palestinians resident in the kingdom who still do not have Jordanian nationality. When Mustafa Hamarneh, a Jordanian MP of Palestinian origin, suggested giving the children of Palestinian refugees access to Jordanian state education, health care and a driving licence, he was labelled a Zionist agent.
Nervous lest they be accused of selling out, many of Jordan’s own Palestinians are also opposing Mr Kerry. After four generations in Jordan, most are unprepared to go anywhere else, but do not want to admit it. Many also fear that Jordan’s government may pocket any compensation supposedly earmarked for Palestinians to persuade them to drop their demand to get back their old homes in Israel. Jordanian officials suggest that Jordan should receive $500m for each of the 65 years they have hosted the refugees, while the country’s Palestinians suggest that each family should be compensated for the properties that Israelis took after 1948. The Palestinians in Jordan also argue that, far from being a burden, they have been responsible for building up Jordan’s economy.
Nice to be a buffer
Jordan’s king may also have reason to flinch at Mr Kerry’s plans. Not only would a Palestinian state compete for some of the aid that now comes his way, but it might also steal the kingdom’s vaunted role as a buffer between Israel and a turbulent Arab world. If a Palestinian state were to emerge, replete with an American-backed force between Israel and the Jordan river, it could claim that role. The Jordanians are reluctant to lose it.
al-Hasani
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@Solomon2
What a shameless Zionistic liar you are.
What oppression does that article talk about genius? It's the exact OPPOSITE.
Jordan's native population have welcomed millions of DISPLACED Palestinians only due to you Zionists stealing the land of Palestinians and waging political, military, economical, social etc. wars against them.
This is beyond ridiculous.
Jordan has already welcomed 2-3 MILLION Palestinians who now have lived for generations in Jordan. They are not in a position to take more. They already welcomed hundred of thousand if not millions of Iraqi and Syrian refugees.
They unlike you do not re
How about Zionists like you give the land back to the Palestinians and don't force them to leave their homeland?
Palestine is Palestine while Jordan is Jordan.
What a shameless Zionist.
Also this topic is completely laughable.
@BLACKEAGLE @Hazzy997
What a shameless Zionistic liar you are.
What oppression does that article talk about genius? It's the exact OPPOSITE.
Jordan's native population have welcomed millions of DISPLACED Palestinians only due to you Zionists stealing the land of Palestinians and waging political, military, economical, social etc. wars against them.
This is beyond ridiculous.
Jordan has already welcomed 2-3 MILLION Palestinians who now have lived for generations in Jordan. They are not in a position to take more. They already welcomed hundred of thousand if not millions of Iraqi and Syrian refugees.
They unlike you do not re
How about Zionists like you give the land back to the Palestinians and don't force them to leave their homeland?
Palestine is Palestine while Jordan is Jordan.
What a shameless Zionist.
Also this topic is completely laughable.
@BLACKEAGLE @Hazzy997
Cousin Hasani.
A quick history lesson for you, old bean.
Jordan was carved out of 'palestine' just as Israel was.
You really need to open a book and see the map of the region called 'palestine' and then see where Jordan is today.
A quick history lesson for you, old bean.
Jordan was carved out of 'palestine' just as Israel was.
You really need to open a book and see the map of the region called 'palestine' and then see where Jordan is today.
al-Hasani
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Yet, why are the Palestinians not native to Jordan then? Palestinians only lived in what is now Palestine and Israel. The native Jordanians considered them as migrants when they first started arriving to what is now Jordan.
Lebanese people are distinctive, Egyptians as well (fair to say that), the native Jordanians as well and Syrians as well and Saudi Arabians as well. I pretty much covered every country that either borders Palestine directly or is a stone's throw away from it.
Hasani, it doesn't matter if you get into natives and indigenous.
This does not change the simple historical fact that Jordan was carved out of what was the region of 'Palestine' under British rule.
'palestinians' are migrants and not native. They are Egyptians, Syrians, Bedouins and even come as far afield as your area. Their surnames tell a lot about their origins.
But please don't get side tracked by all of that - the simple, indisputable fact is that Jordan was carved out of 'Palestine'. There isn't even any discussion about this, it's pure fact.
From wiki, the first line - Jordan (/ˈdʒɔrdən/; Arabic: الأردن al-Urdun), officially the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (Arabic: المملكة الأردنية الهاشمية al-Mamlakah al-Urdunīyah al-Hāshimīyah), is an Arab kingdom in Western Asia, on the East Bank of the Jordan River, and extending into the historic region of Palestine
al-Hasani
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Israel nor Palestine existed prior to 1947 in their current borders or as we know them today.
Jordan came to existence in 1946. 1 year earlier.
I find that hard to believe. So who are the natives of Palestine then? Since 95% of the Jewish arrivals (whether Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardic, Black Jews) came from the outside. Today all of them have mixed and now constitute Israelis. Add to that the local Palestinian Arabs. Muslims as well as Christians.
You are telling me that Palestine was a barren land not inhabited by anyone? That's not what the previous censuses tell at least.
"As far afield"? You do realize that KSA and Hijaz borders the Levant area directly and nearly modern day Israel and Palestine?
Historical regions have little to say in this matter. Only tiny parts of what is now Jordan were part of historical Palestine.
As you can see here:
.svg)
Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What was considered historical Palestine correspondents more or less FULLY to what is now Israel/Palestine. That's not a coincidence.
The Bedouins of the Negev Desert are as native as they can be. They were the only people who ever lived there since it turned into a desert thousands of years ago. The Negev desert and its uplands maks up most of what is now Israeli and Palestinian territory. Geographically speaking.
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The region of 'palestine' was indeed sparsely populated due to its inhospitable nature and mostly infertile lands (back then)
The Ottomans brought in many Jews to the region and it was because of this that region started to bloom and attracted Arab migrants for work.
What we do know is that Jews had lived in that region and land for millennia, before Islam and 'palestinians'. Not only lived, but governed. Something 'palestinians' have never done.
Israel is one of the most heavily excavated lands in the world with international dig teams - I ask you Hasani, why are there no 'palestinian' artefacts? why is there nothing that points to these people? a clay mug? coins? something that points to them as a people?
There is nothing for them. There is plenty for Israelis and Jews. Plenty for Christians and Romans. Nothing for 'palestinians'. Nothing.
I'm not allowed to post links yet, but your map is way off.
If you look at pre-1946 mandate of 'palestine' - you will see what I'm talking about.
The Jews were actually supposed to get more land than they got.
Anyway, it's all academic. They waged war and lost.
The Ottomans brought in many Jews to the region and it was because of this that region started to bloom and attracted Arab migrants for work.
What we do know is that Jews had lived in that region and land for millennia, before Islam and 'palestinians'. Not only lived, but governed. Something 'palestinians' have never done.
Israel is one of the most heavily excavated lands in the world with international dig teams - I ask you Hasani, why are there no 'palestinian' artefacts? why is there nothing that points to these people? a clay mug? coins? something that points to them as a people?
There is nothing for them. There is plenty for Israelis and Jews. Plenty for Christians and Romans. Nothing for 'palestinians'. Nothing.
I'm not allowed to post links yet, but your map is way off.
If you look at pre-1946 mandate of 'palestine' - you will see what I'm talking about.
The Jews were actually supposed to get more land than they got.
Anyway, it's all academic. They waged war and lost.
Falcon29
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Great posts Hasani.
Ignore this Zionist terrorist idiot who's trying to push the same old bs we Arabs know well about Palestine being deserted and Jews just came to buy land.
Before WW1 Jewish population was small, under 4% of the population. Nobody had a problem with Jews who had lived there peacefully, obviously after enormous waves of illegal immigration was when Arab population began to decrease in Palestinian land significantly.
He's trying to imply a few thousand Jews were living peacefully on land they purchased until aggressor arabs forced them to take over the country and suddenly become the majority. At the same time he's trying to give himself a right to land by implying all of historic Palestine is Jewish whether we like it or not and they 'took back' what they consider their land through force and other methods.
This guy and his comrades are the most pathetic people with their old arguments when they're telling us in our face that they disregard the native population and seized the land they believe is there's either way so what's the point of debating with idiots who say either way illegally or immorally our card we play is that it's all our land because a few thousand years ago Jews colonized Canaan. As if life started three thousand years ago.
Great posts Hasani.
Ignore this Zionist terrorist idiot who's trying to push the same old bs we Arabs know well about Palestine being deserted and Jews just came to buy land.
Before WW1 Jewish population was small, under 4% of the population. Nobody had a problem with Jews who had lived there peacefully, obviously after enormous waves of illegal immigration was when Arab population began to decrease in Palestinian land significantly.
He's trying to imply a few thousand Jews were living peacefully on land they purchased until aggressor arabs forced them to take over the country and suddenly become the majority. At the same time he's trying to give himself a right to land by implying all of historic Palestine is Jewish whether we like it or not and they 'took back' what they consider their land through force and other methods.
This guy and his comrades are the most pathetic people with their old arguments when they're telling us in our face that they disregard the native population and seized the land they believe is there's either way so what's the point of debating with idiots who say either way illegally or immorally our card we play is that it's all our land because a few thousand years ago Jews colonized Canaan. As if life started three thousand years ago.
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