Pakistan's War on Scholars

[TaimiKhan]

Christine fair has done amazing job on covering the ground realities inside Pakistan. She very well knows to speak and read in punjabi and urdu.

She has collected vast number of publications, books and circulars of Pakistan army from decades back. Based on the official publications of the Pakistan army, and even through the famous "green book", interviews and other sources she has written a book on state of affair of Pakistan army. Read it up.

leaving out the wars lost, thecover-ups and lot other stuff, lets just concentrate on zarb-e-azb.....there are no independent sources to confirm what the Pakistani military claims.

These operations are happening in "journalist-free-zones" and as such these militants-free-zones sanitized by Pakistani army is off limits to journalists and press. What ever you get to hear is the military claiming " Inshallah,we did that, we did this"...there is no other way to verify their claim through independent sources.

one shining example is how Pakistanis would scream "counter-productive" and "innocents killed" when Americans carried out drone strike, but now Pakistani air-force is pretty bombing the tribal areas and there are no "counter-productive" screamers nor we hear "innocent children killed" voices.

So howz the weather in Hubli or Hubballi? What is it really called ?

 

[Paksanity]

So basically when she says Pakistan is targetting scholars, she means herself. She won't issue this license to anyone but herself......annnnddd.....to those Indians who speak against Pakistan! Wow.. Very scholarly! Throw in Mr Hussain Haqqani as a scholar (seriously?) and there you have it! Ms Fair anything you have got to say about Mr Haqqani? You know, after all he was member of militant wing of Islamic religious party Jamaat-i-Islami and use to write in favour of Zia ul Haq, the religio-military dictator you are so against. Did I mention that he served every political government since Zia, switching sides every time!? Anything about his past Ms Fair? Aahh...very scholarly! Very neutral! Very credible! So you will just put yourself on the throne of scholar by self appointment? Continuously attack a state and its institutions but get sour when someone does not agree with your opinion? Very scholarly! Very tolerant! Ever heard of sovereignty of people of a state, Ms Fair? That they can by majority consensus choose to support someone or something inside their own state? So if majority backs Pakistan Military it hurts you. What happened to respecting people's opinion; that democracy thingy you know?! The fact is Ms Fair, you are right in the league of terrorists with a different kind of weapon. They are minority, so are you (even smaller than them). They are sour that majority doesn't agree with them so they attack them. So are you, and attack us with a different weapon; weapon of disinformation, defamation and disorder. Sitting in US and India might earn you better sales of your books, it doesn't earn you any respect from people of country you write about. Just like we don't respect TTP sitting in Afghanistan, we don't respect you either. Deal with it.

Christine fair has done amazing job on covering the ground realities inside Pakistan. She very well knows to speak and read in punjabi and urdu.

Don't have the courage to display your flags? Coward!

So speaking Punjabi and Urdu miraculously reveals ground realities! Wow, how come I never thought of that!? Thanks man (or whatever you are).

She has collected vast number of publications, books and circulars of Pakistan army from decades back. Based on the official publications of the Pakistan army, and even through the famous "green book", interviews and other sources she has written a book on state of affair of Pakistan army. Read it up.

What is a green book and what does it reveal? You seriously think Pakistan Army will hand over their official publications to a foreigner lady? Just so because....?

leaving out the wars lost, thecover-ups and lot other stuff, lets just concentrate on zarb-e-azb.....there are no independent sources to confirm what the Pakistani military claims.

And it is Pakistan Army's responsibility to transport independent sources in war zone? Why don't so called independent sources lift their lazy butts and try and verify something? Ever heard of war reporters? You think they don't risk it all to bring the news? By the way did any independent source deny with evidence Pakistan's military's claims? But since you are an agent of negativity and doubt, you will only raise suspicion. Nevermind if you don't have anything substantial. How about hearings at congressional committees about this operation? No? What of Afghan government's cries that this operation has pushed militants in their territory? Of course not. How can these "pro Pak military" sources be neutral?

These operations are happening in "journalist-free-zones" and as such these militants-free-zones sanitized by Pakistani army is off limits to journalists and press. What ever you get to hear is the military claiming " Inshallah,we did that, we did this"...there is no other way to verify their claim through independent sources.

So? It hurts you doesn't it? Oh dear!

one shining example is how Pakistanis would scream "counter-productive" and "innocents killed" when Americans carried out drone strike, but now Pakistani air-force is pretty bombing the tribal areas and there are no "counter-productive" screamers nor we hear "innocent children killed" voices.

Did you see any evidence of collateral damage? Everyone has a camera phone these days. They can shoot and upload videos of our soldiers being decapitated but they can't make a video of collateral damage? Since in your suspicion Army is lying about its gains, your terrorist friends have all the control of the area to make such videos, no?

Did you miss the news that all civillian population was evacuated from the area before commencement of operation or you intentionally omitted this part? It hurts you when we bomb them, doesn't it?

 

[mpk1988]

I strongly condemn the actions of Pak against the liberals and secularists. They should be allowed to dissent.
This is barbarism.

 

[Areesh]

Lol this bitch Christine still moaning??

 

[for truth]

So howz the weather in Hubli or Hubballi? What is it really called ?

if you had asked me about my location. I would have given it to you by myself.

but if you look at my activity, you will notice that I'm not a regular poster here. There was a long time i didn't post, and I wasn't in India at that time. When I had first registered, I had displayed my Indian flags, but I remember that this website underwent a major upgrade and some changes and all. When I logged back in, after more than a year or so later, even i was surprised to notice the missing flags. I haven't bothered to look into the settings, because this site hardly concerns me and I hardly ever make a comment. But it's good to know you have butthurt here..

 

[for truth]

.....

Don't have the courage to display your flags? Coward!

So speaking Punjabi and Urdu miraculously reveals ground realities! Wow, how come I never thought of that!? Thanks man (or whatever you are).

My response to @TaimiKhan

"sweetheart, if you had asked me about my location. I would have given it to you by myself.

but if you look at my activity, you will notice that I'm not a regular poster here. There was a long time i didn't post, and I wasn't in India at that time. When I had first registered, I had displayed my Indian flags, but I remember that this website underwent a major upgrade and some changes and all. When I logged back in, after more than a year or so later, even i was surprised to notice the missing flags. I haven't bothered to look into the settings, because this site hardly concerns me and I hardly ever make a comment. But it's good to know you have butthurt here.."

the same response applies to you too.

you could have politely asked why i made reference to Punjabi and Urdu languages. And in one of the lectures, she beautifully explains it. Can there be a expert on France without knowing french?NO.
Most of the western "experts", pick up whatever appears on the English media and report it as it is. But, pakistan isn't a country where everyone can speak english, infact, very small percentage speaks English. To get to the local people, we have to know local language. And interestingly, the publications of Pakistani army and its official narratives were all printed in local languages decades back. No western scholar picked it up, because of unfamiliarity with the language. This is where she comes in. she beautifully recorded how Pakistani army's official narrative in its publications talks about a ideological war and not a territorial dispute as they want the west to believe.

In short, the war is not about just about Kashmir anymore, it is a ideological war. She infers this going through the decades old pakistan army's books and papers written in local languages. These books and papers contained notes and official narratives written by higher ranked Pakistani military personnel to lower ranked officers in which they talk about the vision, the mission and all about Pakistani military. And surprisingly, she found out that none of the official narratives of these high ranked Pakistani generals talk about Kashmir, infact, they talk about of what can be considered as a 'holy war'.

What is a green book and what does it reveal? You seriously think Pakistan Army will hand over their official publications to a foreigner lady? Just so because....?

yes, she did get those books. Back then, Americans weren't viewed with suspicion, they were partners. She tells everything about how she got access to these books when she visited as a research scholar to Pakistan. No one paid much attention as they were viewed as friends and this lady went through all the narratives. What do these books reveal? the official narrative of the top military leadership, there approach and what they think of the existing situation. their plans to deal with it and all. After all, they were the official accounts of high ranked military personnel. Their words did matter to soldiers at borders.

And it is Pakistan Army's responsibility to transport independent sources in war zone? Why don't so called independent sources lift their lazy butts and try and verify something? Ever heard of war reporters? You think they don't risk it all to bring the news? By the way did any independent source deny with evidence Pakistan's military's claims? But since you are an agent of negativity and doubt, you will only raise suspicion. Nevermind if you don't have anything substantial. How about hearings at congressional committees about this operation? No? What of Afghan government's cries that this operation has pushed militants in their territory? Of course not. How can these "pro Pak military" sources be neutral?

no one denied there wasn't any operation. no one denied militants were targeted. The question is about how effective is the operation and how true are these claims. The questions arise because independent reporters aren't allowed inside to cover the ground stories. It is not about reporters being lazy, it is about they not been given permission to cover the full ground story.

So? It hurts you doesn't it? Oh dear!

I thought you would actually support me here on the issue of verifying these claims from independent sources since your name has "sanity " in it. never-mind....

Did you see any evidence of collateral damage? Everyone has a camera phone these days. They can shoot and upload videos of our soldiers being decapitated but they can't make a video of collateral damage? Since in your suspicion Army is lying about its gains, your terrorist friends have all the control of the area to make such videos, no?

Did you miss the news that all civillian population was evacuated from the area before commencement of operation or you intentionally omitted this part? It hurts you when we bomb them, doesn't it?

Not lying, but unverified. And not according to me, according to even the most read news papers 'dawn', which questioned the policy of hanging vast number of people on flimsy and unsubstantiated allegations. Even you might have read how many people have raised voices against these hangings carried out by military.

So basically when she says Pakistan is targetting scholars, she means herself. She won't issue this license to anyone but herself......annnnddd.....to those Indians who speak against Pakistan! Wow.. Very scholarly! Throw in Mr Hussain Haqqani as a scholar (seriously?) and there you have it! Ms Fair anything you have got to say about Mr Haqqani? You know, after all he was member of militant wing of Islamic religious party Jamaat-i-Islami and use to write in favour of Zia ul Haq, the religio-military dictator you are so against. Did I mention that he served every political government since Zia, switching sides every time!? Anything about his past Ms Fair? Aahh...very scholarly! Very neutral! Very credible! So you will just put yourself on the throne of scholar by self appointment? Continuously attack a state and its institutions but get sour when someone does not agree with your opinion? Very scholarly! Very tolerant! Ever heard of sovereignty of people of a state, Ms Fair? That they can by majority consensus choose to support someone or something inside their own state? So if majority backs Pakistan Military it hurts you. What happened to respecting people's opinion; that democracy thingy you know?! The fact is Ms Fair, you are right in the league of terrorists with a different kind of weapon. They are minority, so are you (even smaller than them). They are sour that majority doesn't agree with them so they attack them. So are you, and attack us with a different weapon; weapon of disinformation, defamation and disorder. Sitting in US and India might earn you better sales of your books, it doesn't earn you any respect from people of country you write about. Just like we don't respect TTP sitting in Afghanistan, we don't respect you either. Deal with it.

Hussain Haqqani is your issue. I never had a opinion of him nor he means anything to me.

She has written her books independently and through her own research, no need to discredit her just because she shared dais with Hussain Haqqani. If you're so curious, just give it a try and read her book. You support your military, she supports her research findings. Her issue is not about people supporting or not-supporting Pakistani military, her issue here is why is america supporting when Pakistani military isn't honest about what it says. It is far from honest according to her. you were free to do what ever you wanted back then, you're free to do whatever you want even now and you'll be free to do whatever you want even in future.

adios amigos

 

[Bratva]

The above guy is a total nutcase and ignorant to the teeth. His whole premise is no independent journalist was allowed into warzone. which is a total lie and whole argument collapses because he doesnt know about 5-10 documentaries made by 3-5 journalists with a total running time of 3-5 hours which were allowed into active warzone last year.

I dont know why board tolerate such ignorants here on this forum

 

[for truth]

. His whole premise is no independent journalist was allowed into warzone.

No, not the whole premise. I just randomly picked the zarb-e-azb. My whole premise wasn't around zarb-e-azb. I just raised the points that certain Pakistanis living abroad had brought it up.

My whole premise was about Christine fair's works.

But of course, continue with personal insults...

Anyway, I sincerely wish they flush out the militants for good.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Christine Fair, has a habit of considering herself as superior to all others, just because she has an understanding of Urdu or Punjabi doesn't equate to having immerse knowledge of everything S. Asia.

Her accusation that her scholarly work is being maligned dude to differences of opinion with the Pakistani Military is laughable. As all Journalists and Scholars have an agenda on any given issue. You don't decide to study up on S. Asian History or learn a language because you want to write about or make a travel documentary like Anthony Bourdain.

Journalistic ethics have long gone out of the window for flashy reports about police car chases, kitten videos, and the desire to "predict the winner of (primary/caucus/ election). Fun game, during Nov. Election have a drinking game with your buddies, take a shot every time Wolfe Blitzer says "predicted winner"

Check this article about Christine Fair

Most of the western "experts", pick up whatever appears on the English media and report it as it is. But, pakistan isn't a country where everyone can speak english, infact, very small percentage speaks English. To get to the local people, we have to know local language. And interestingly, the publications of Pakistani army and its official narratives were all printed in local languages decades back. No western scholar picked it up, because of unfamiliarity with the language. This is where she comes in. she beautifully recorded how Pakistani army's official narrative in its publications talks about a ideological war and not a territorial dispute as they want the west to believe.

I have tried to converse with Chrisitian but she banned me after accusing me of being an ISI's spy lol

She is not one that will actively or even remotely accept questioning about her view points.

And it is Pakistan Army's responsibility to transport independent sources in war zone? Why don't so called independent sources lift their lazy butts and try and verify something? Ever heard of war reporters?

which is a total lie and whole argument collapses because he doesnt know about 5-10 documentaries made by 3-5 journalists with a total running time of 3-5 hours which were allowed into active warzone last year.

Is it possible you could post a thread on videos of journalists embedded with the Pakistani Army in their operations?