Featured Pakistan's Shahpar II UAV Unveiled

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Thank you bhai for your such a detailed reply

 

[Marker]

Apologies for the thread jump, didn't want to post off topic.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that question either. I had known about the design and development of Shahpar-II, and yes it is the most indigenous of Pakistani drones (well the PAC Azm MALE is pretty local too I think but I know less about that drone). So AWC does have valuable knowledge.

As far as Ra'ad is concerned, they are constantly improving it since it is basically their flagship project. Ra'ad 2 is a very different ALCM than the Ra'ad.

As far as technologies moving laterally, in my opinion it is the experience from Ra'ad that is enabling advances in the Shahpar program, and not the other way around. Ra'ad is just a suicide UCAV after all, and it precedes Shahpar.

Sharing technologies between country's two different organisations, one is civil defence contractor NESCOM and the other is state own conglomerate GIDS is only possible if the primary customer ie Pakistan Armed Forces wants them to share to meet specific requirements.

Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 are cruise missiles, therefore these standoff delivery vehicles do not need any comm link with air/ground control station.

The visible difference between Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 is their tails. Ra'ad has twin tail (large horizontal tails) configuration whereas Ra'ad 2 has conventional tail fin (X type) configuration. Ra'ad is powered by a turbojet engine whereas Ra'ad 2 has a turbofan engine as its power source. Ra'ad range was improved from 350 km to 550 km. A continuous process of improvement can be seen during the series of tests conducted since August 2007. Ra'ad 2 was tested in February 2020 and offers a range of 600 km. Other critical specifications were not made public.

On the other hand, Shahpar and Shahpar 2 are reconnaissance and day/night surveillance UAVs and are being controlled from Ground station. Some specifications are appended below:

General characteristics	Shahpar	Shahpar 2
Capacity	50 kg (110 lb) payload	200 kg (441 lb) payload
Length	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)
Wingspan	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)
Gross weight	480 kg (1,058 lb)	480 kg (1,058 lb)
Performance​
Cruise speed	150 km/h (93 mph, 81 kn)	200 km/h (120 mph, 110 kn)
Endurance	7 hours	14 hours
Service ceiling	5,000 m (16,000 ft)	6,100 m (20,000 ft)
Real-time data link range	250 km	300 km

Both versions uses the sensor suite, a multi-sensor turret designated "Zumr-1 (EP)", which is built at an AERO (Advanced Engineering Research Organisation) facility near Islamabad.

Power plant used in Shahpar is of 100 hp 4 cylinder 4 stroke piston engine.

Though there is no official info available about power plant used in Shahpar 2, but increase in pay load capacity and overall performance without change in physical characteristics including gross weight reveal that Shahpar 2 is being powered by a better engine.

Sources: http://www.gids.com.pk/UAV.pdf

GIDS Shahpar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GIDS Shahpar-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad (air-launched cruise missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JamD]

Sharing technologies between country's two different organisations, one is civil defence contractor NESCOM and the other is state own conglomerate GIDS is only possible if the primary customer ie Pakistan Armed Forces wants them to share to meet specific requirements.

Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 are cruise missiles, therefore these standoff delivery vehicles do not need any comm link with air/ground control station.

The visible difference between Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 is their tails. Ra'ad has twin tail (large horizontal tails) configuration whereas Ra'ad 2 has conventional tail fin (X type) configuration. Ra'ad is powered by a turbojet engine whereas Ra'ad 2 has a turbofan engine as its power source. Ra'ad range was improved from 350 km to 550 km. A continuous process of improvement can be seen during the series of tests conducted since August 2007. Ra'ad 2 was tested in February 2020 and offers a range of 600 km. Other critical specifications were not made public.

On the other hand, Shahpar and Shahpar 2 are reconnaissance and day/night surveillance UAVs and are being controlled from Ground station. Some specifications are appended below:

General characteristics	Shahpar	Shahpar 2
Capacity	50 kg (110 lb) payload	200 kg (441 lb) payload
Length	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)
Wingspan	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)
Gross weight	480 kg (1,058 lb)	480 kg (1,058 lb)
Performance​
Cruise speed	150 km/h (93 mph, 81 kn)	200 km/h (120 mph, 110 kn)
Endurance	7 hours	14 hours
Service ceiling	5,000 m (16,000 ft)	6,100 m (20,000 ft)

Both versions uses the sensor suite, a multi-sensor turret designated "Zumr-1 (EP)", which is built at an AERO (Advanced Engineering Research Organisation) facility near Islamabad.

Power plant used in Shahpar is of 100 hp 4 cylinder 4 stroke piston engine.

Though there is no official info available about power plant used in Shahpar 2, but increase in pay load capacity and overall performance without change in physical characteristics including gross weight reveal that Shahpar 2 is being powered by a better engine.

Sources: http://www.gids.com.pk/UAV.pdf

GIDS Shahpar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GIDS Shahpar-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad (air-launched cruise missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sir you are misinformed about what GIDS and AERO are.
GIDS = Marketing arm of NESCOM
AERO = Front company for AWC
Ra'ad, Shahpar, and Zumr are AWC products.
AWC comes under NESCOM.
I keep having to repeat this ad nauseam.

Also the specifications table you give is nonsense. Shahpar 1 and 2 do not and cannot have the same length height weight wingspan.

Furthermore, ALCM do need datalinks to communicate with their parent aircraft and ground control station to update mission target/profile. As a matter of fact you can spot the comms antenna on the Ra'ad right here:

 

[Marker]

Sir you are misinformed about what GIDS and AERO are.
GIDS = Marketing arm of NESCOM
AERO = Front company for AWC
Ra'ad, Shahpar, and Zumr are AWC products.
AWC comes under NESCOM.
I keep having to repeat this ad nauseam.

According to GIDS brochure Shapar is a product of GIDS and Zumr-1 is developed by AERO on of the seven or eight companies including SUPARCO forming the GIDS consortium. There is no info available on net which may reveal involvement of AWC in developing Shahpar and Zumer-1.

The National Engineering & Scientific Commission (NESCOM) is a Pakistani missile manufacturer and civilian research organisation of Pakistan, under the administrative control of the Strategic Plans Division of Pakistan's National Command Authority and is headquartered in Islamabad, Pakistan.

National Engineering & Scientific Commission (NESCOM) was formed in 2000 by amalgamating the National Development Complex, Air Weapons Complex, Maritime Technologies Complex and the Project Management Organisation.

Interestingly, Project Management Organisation is responsible for the development of UAV and UCAV systems for use by the Pakistan Armed Forces. Buraq and now Anka are being developed and produced by this organisation.

If you have any other source which contradict the above info, please do share with us.
Sources:

GIDS - Products

www.gids.com.pk

https://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/586/Interestingly.

DEPO

ideaspakistan.gov.pk

 

[JamD]

According to GIDS brochure Shapar is a product of GIDS and Zumr-1 is developed by AERO on of the seven or eight companies including SUPARCO forming the GIDS consortium. There is no info available on net which may reveal involvement of AWC in developing Shahpar and Zumer-1.

The National Engineering & Scientific Commission (NESCOM) is a Pakistani missile manufacturer and civilian research organisation of Pakistan, under the administrative control of the Strategic Plans Division of Pakistan's National Command Authority and is headquartered in Islamabad, Pakistan.

National Engineering & Scientific Commission (NESCOM) was formed in 2000 by amalgamating the National Development Complex, Air Weapons Complex, Maritime Technologies Complex and the Project Management Organisation.

Interestingly, Project Management Organisation is responsible for the development of UAV and UCAV systems for use by the Pakistan Armed Forces. Buraq and now Anka are being developed and produced by this organisation.

If you have any other source which contradict the above info, please do share with us.
Sources:

GIDS - Products

www.gids.com.pk

https://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/586/Interestingly.

DEPO

ideaspakistan.gov.pk

I have no source. Those who know, know. I believe there was even a Wikileaks leaked cable confirming this but I'm not going to look for it. What you are stating is the "on paper" line. You are of course welcome do your own investigation.

As a fun exercise try finding out where GIDS or AERO has factories or manufacturing facilities. You can thank me later for the subsequent lols lol.

 

[Marker]

Furthermore, ALCM do need datalinks to communicate with their parent aircraft and ground control station to update mission target/profile. As a matter of fact you can spot the comms antenna on the Ra'ad right here:

Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 are low-altitude, terrain hugging missile with high manoeuvrability. Datalink communication with ground station is out of question considering its flight profile. As far as air platform is concern, the datalink range should be more than the max range of the ALCM ie datalink range > 350, 550 and 600 km. Air platform should be flying away from the range of S400 threat. Hence it should be at least 600 km away from the target.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Sharing technologies between country's two different organisations, one is civil defence contractor NESCOM and the other is state own conglomerate GIDS is only possible if the primary customer ie Pakistan Armed Forces wants them to share to meet specific requirements.

Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 are cruise missiles, therefore these standoff delivery vehicles do not need any comm link with air/ground control station.

The visible difference between Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 is their tails. Ra'ad has twin tail (large horizontal tails) configuration whereas Ra'ad 2 has conventional tail fin (X type) configuration. Ra'ad is powered by a turbojet engine whereas Ra'ad 2 has a turbofan engine as its power source. Ra'ad range was improved from 350 km to 550 km. A continuous process of improvement can be seen during the series of tests conducted since August 2007. Ra'ad 2 was tested in February 2020 and offers a range of 600 km. Other critical specifications were not made public.

On the other hand, Shahpar and Shahpar 2 are reconnaissance and day/night surveillance UAVs and are being controlled from Ground station. Some specifications are appended below:

General characteristics	Shahpar	Shahpar 2
Capacity	50 kg (110 lb) payload	200 kg (441 lb) payload
Length	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)	4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)
Wingspan	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)	6.6 m (21 ft 8 in)
Gross weight	480 kg (1,058 lb)	480 kg (1,058 lb)
Performance​
Cruise speed	150 km/h (93 mph, 81 kn)	200 km/h (120 mph, 110 kn)
Endurance	7 hours	14 hours
Service ceiling	5,000 m (16,000 ft)	6,100 m (20,000 ft)
Real-time data link range	250 km	300 km

Both versions uses the sensor suite, a multi-sensor turret designated "Zumr-1 (EP)", which is built at an AERO (Advanced Engineering Research Organisation) facility near Islamabad.

Power plant used in Shahpar is of 100 hp 4 cylinder 4 stroke piston engine.

Though there is no official info available about power plant used in Shahpar 2, but increase in pay load capacity and overall performance without change in physical characteristics including gross weight reveal that Shahpar 2 is being powered by a better engine.

Sources: http://www.gids.com.pk/UAV.pdf

GIDS Shahpar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GIDS Shahpar-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad-II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad (air-launched cruise missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ra'ad and Ra'ad 2 are low-altitude, terrain hugging missile with high manoeuvrability. Datalink communication with ground station is out of question considering its flight profile. As far as air platform is concern, the datalink range should be more than the max range of the ALCM ie datalink range > 350, 550 and 600 km. Air platform should be flying away from the range of S400 threat. Hence it should be at least 600 km away from the target.

That’s how it works guys. NASA is an independent federal organization responsible for the civilian space program. At the same time, it facilitates and works to pioneer technology for every US Defense and commercial organizations inside it’s testing facilities and expertise.

If Airforce, missile defense command or CIA wants to test a crazy new idea, they contact NASA. They don’t build another multimillion dollar testing facility on federal budget.

 

[JamD]

As far as air platform is concern, the datalink range should be more than the max range of the ALCM ie datalink range > 350, 550 and 600 km.

Why? Who made that a requirement?

Keep in mind that CMs have the advantage over BMs that they can be retargetted. Also, Raad is supposed to be capable of hitting sea targets. Do you really believe no target updates can be sent to the missile? Raad would have to be special not to have a data link.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Why? Who made that a requirement?

Keep in mind that CMs have the advantage over BMs that they can be retargetted. Also, Raad is supposed to be capable of hitting sea targets. Do you really believe no target updates can be sent to the missile? Raad would have to be special not to have a data link.

Special as in Ralph Wiggum-special, or Lisa Simpson-special?

 

[Marker]

Why? Who made that a requirement?

Keep in mind that CMs have the advantage over BMs that they can be retargetted. Also, Raad is supposed to be capable of hitting sea targets. Do you really believe no target updates can be sent to the missile? Raad would have to be special not to have a data link.

Ground Stations can only be possible if datalink is routed through a comm satellite.

Do Pakistan have such satellite only to be used for military purpose and cannot be hacked? Or we have access to Chinese satellites. Ra'ad is suppose to carry both conventional and nuclear warheads.

IMO, air platform is a better option with direct and secured data link range should be around 600 to 1000 km for retargeting purpose. This require a powerful transmission system onboard the ALCM.

 

[JamD]

Special as in Ralph Wiggum-special, or Lisa Simpson-special?

Ralph lol

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Turks are/were indeed open, I wish we Pakistanis could've done better on the R&D side so that we could offer to Turkey as well. We Pakistanis messed up by not taking domestic development as seriously as Turkey (even though a 15-year old me was calling for it on this very forum 15 years ago).

More can be done no doubt , so Pakistan invests more on R&D

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Ra'ad is suppose to carry both conventional and nuclear warheads.

Sir can we put MAWS on RAAD ALCM so that it can maneuver accordingly.how much power it will consume?
By compromising 100_200km range,we should put this system on Raad missile.

 

[sparten]

The American assessment of our UCAV is that Burraq is approximately the level of a Predator and Shahpar II is that of a Reaper.(Key word here approximate, before you start jumping on me).
(We seem to have gone for a short and fat UAV design).
The fact that the Shahpar II is significantly bigger in size, makes me think that it’s a Turboprop rather than a piston engine.

 

[Maula Jatt]

I don't like the name

its not local enough for my liking

The American assessment of our UCAV is that Burraq is approximately the level of a Predator and Shahpar II is that of a Reaper.(Key word here approximate, before you start jumping on me).
(We seem to have gone for a short and fat UAV design).
The fact that the Shahpar II is significantly bigger in size, makes me think that it’s a Turboprop rather than a piston engine.

I really felt like jumping but you said "before you start jumping on me"
BTW would you mind sharing the US assessment with us....