Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Which one BW 2020 or 2021? In either case, I don't think so. What made you reach that conclusion. BW 2020 is a 7.62X51 round, a big one.

BW21

BW20

BTW. POF's Salman Ali said that the BW20 and BW21 are completely different rifles. BW21 is NOT the carbine version of BW20. I think BW21 is where POF is ultimately heading by bringing the roller-delayed mechanism to an AR-type form-factor. BW21 could basically be what the PA ultimately wants in the long-run.

Also, POF's Salman Ali also said they closed the PK21 project. I think POF is rolling the 7.62x39 mm work to the BW20 (they're developing a 7.62x39 mm variant that can take AK mags) and, later, BW21. Basically, a common design for 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.56x45.

 

[Falcon26]

BW21

View attachment 802091

BW20
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BTW. POF's Salman Ali said that the BW20 and BW21 are completely different rifles. BW21 is NOT the carbine version of BW20. I think BW21 is where POF is ultimately heading by bringing the roller-delayed mechanism to an AR-type form-factor. BW21 could basically be what the PA ultimately wants in the long-run.

Also, POF's Salman Ali also said they closed the PK21 project. I think POF is rolling the 7.62x39 mm work to the BW20 (they're developing a 7.62x39 mm variant that can take AK mags) and, later, BW21. Basically, a common design for 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.56x45.

Great designs! @Zarvan

 

[Super Falcon]

Why pakistanarmy not opting for chinese QBZ 191 which is copy of german heckler and koch 416 class gun

Since china has dense enviornment of harsh deserts and extreme cold enviornments tgese guns went for testing this is why they passed those test and inducted

This is very valid reason to get them they are cheap and comes from pak most favourite cmpany Norinco
They look better than pak BW gun which mister salman fircing on us of old technology when every one phassing them out

 

[Bilal.]

Why pakistanarmy not opting for chinese QBZ 191 which is copy of german heckler and koch 416 class gun

Since china has dense enviornment of harsh deserts and extreme cold enviornments tgese guns went for testing this is why they passed those test and inducted

This is very valid reason to get them they are cheap and comes from pak most favourite cmpany Norinco
They look better than pak BW gun which mister salman fircing on us of old technology when every one phassing them out

Bhai what is this “look better” logic. Also we don’t use 5.8 ammo.

 

[Super Falcon]

Bhai what is this “look better” logic. Also we don’t use 5.8 ammo.

Agreed but do we used drones in 90s no so it dosent mean we cant and china can modify these guns according to our requirement

 

[Bilal.]

Agreed but do we used drones in 90s no so it dosent mean we cant and china can modify these guns according to our requirement

If we keep importing and never give our industry a chance we will never produce anything. Even foreign buyers will see that they don’t prefer their own products and never consider them.

We have 3 rifles that have been designed BW20 and BW21 based on roller delayed mechanism and PK18 based on AR15 (gas operated) we should choose one of these after testing and refining the reliability, accuracy and features.

 

[Thorough Pro]

LOL. 90% of PA uses G3. You need to understand the difference between a battlefield and an assault rifle. Most of the pic you see on the internet are of the units using assault rifles but that does not mean the use of G3 is limited. It is still the mainstay weapon of PA.

The G3 is in very limited use already, and new AKs are constantly coming in. I don’t think we will be seeing G3 for much longer. We‘re buying new AKs for a reason, because we’re going to keep using them (this includes new Type 56-II rifles.)

 

[airmarshal]

3 rifles competing it seems.

PK18
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BW-20

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BW-21

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Are these designed in Pakistan or license built?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If we keep importing and never give our industry a chance we will never produce anything. Even foreign buyers will see that they don’t prefer their own products and never consider them.

We have 3 rifles that have been designed BW20 and BW21 based on roller delayed mechanism and PK18 based on AR15 (gas operated) we should choose one of these after testing and refining the reliability, accuracy and features.

I think the PA's future rifle is BW21. It leverages the AR-style frame (like a lot of new rifles) but with the roller delayed mechanism the PA's comfortable with. The whole idea sounds like the result of a serious discussion or assessment between GHQ and POF. It's basically a new, original rifle design.

 

[iLION12345_1]

LOL. 90% of PA uses G3. You need to understand the difference between a battlefield and an assault rifle. Most of the pic you see on the internet are of the units using assault rifles but that does not mean the use of G3 is limited. It is still the mainstay weapon of PA.

Maybe you need glasses then. Find me a picture from the last 3 years of a single G3 in use in a combat setting wether it be on LoC or WoT. G3 is not in common use anymore. Only carried by sentries at times, even they mostly carry type 56s. PA has been ordering and receiving new Type 56-IIMs and other modernized AKs constantly for a few years now, but haven’t made a single order for new G3s, where do you think these AKs are going?

Even Non-infantry units have phased out G3s, I visited Swat in 2016 where non-inf units had taken security charge to free up infantry units, didn’t see a single G3 anywhere in sight, andthey were all artillery boys. I visited LOC side in 2020, bridging units had phased out G3s as well, the infantry there hasn’t used G3s for ages anyways. Drive through Rawalpindi, 90% of the sentries are carrying Type 56s. Yes G3s are still in use and you see them once in a while, but I don’t know where you saw 90% of PA using G3s. Even the training is done with Type 56.

Aik to pakistanion ko point marne mein bohot maza ata hai but thori si research karne pe mout parti hay. The G3s are all still in storage and will totally be used in the case of a war, but are they the preferred weapon/weapon of choice? Not anymore, with good reason too, the Type 56-II is better in every way for a modern combat scenario, wether COIN or conventional, simply because of its lighter weight, lower recoil and ability to mount accessories, though PA still does need modern rifles to replace it.

 

[HRK]

I think the PA's future rifle is BW21. It leverages the AR-style frame (like a lot of new rifles) but with the roller delayed mechanism the PA's comfortable with. The whole idea sounds like the result of a serious discussion or assessment between GHQ and POF. It's basically a new, original rifle design.

agreed but I think POF should not have discarded gas operated PK-18 and PK-21 designs and should keep refining those designs with the aim to introduce it in International Market.

 

[TsAr]

agreed but I think POF should not have discarded gas operated PK-18 and PK-21 designs and should keep refining those designs with the aim to introduce it in International Market.

POF priority is PA first, at the moment they are not in a position to cater to civilian market. I am sure with various agreements signed with Turkish manufacturers there is work going on in the back ground for further enchancements.

 

[HRK]

POF priority is PA first, at the moment they are not in a position to cater to civilian market. I am sure with various agreements signed with Turkish manufacturers there is work going on in the back ground for further enchancements.

bhai I do understand the priority of POF is to fulfil Pak Army demands but keep in mind I am not asking for production of PK-18 & PK-21 designes but only for the further refinement of the designs

- this would have kept some of the member POF designing team engage and

- POF would have an original design with IP right to its name with minimum resources.

- Other than this POF would have a product range for both delayed below back trigger system in the form of BW-20 and BW21 & Gas Operated system in the form of PK-18 and PK-21

But after discontinuation of design work on PK-18 and 21 situation is like moving back to the start after covering half of the journey.

 

[farooqbhai007]

bhai I do understand the priority of POF is to fulfil Pak Army demands but keep in mind I am not asking for production of PK-18 & PK-21 designes but only for the further refinement of the designs

- this would have kept designing some of the member POF designing team engage and

- POF would have an original design with IP right to its name with minimum resources.

- Other than this POF would have product range for both delayed below back trigger system in the form of BW-20 and BW21 & Gas Operated system in the form of PK-18 and PK-21

But after discontinuation of design work on PK-18 and 21 situation is like moving back to the start after covering half of the journey.

who said work is being discontinued , just because you dont get updates doesnt mean a certain project has been discontinued.

 

[Super Falcon]

If we keep importing and never give our industry a chance we will never produce anything. Even foreign buyers will see that they don’t prefer their own products and never consider them.

We have 3 rifles that have been designed BW20 and BW21 based on roller delayed mechanism and PK18 based on AR15 (gas operated) we should choose one of these after testing and refining the reliability, accuracy and features.

AR based is a future im very upset with this guy salman selling his old churan in new oack wont work these type of vultures are dangerous for making money in short period

Pak should have started investing in gun manufacturing in 90s

Bhai what is this “look better” logic. Also we don’t use 5.8 ammo.

Again did we used drones in 90s
Do we had awacs in 90s

Dont tell we dont use you have to adopt the change to survive