Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thus this national guard might also have scale to buy equipment on a greater level and have more commonality of equipment. Instead of FC and Rangers operating different hardware.

Yep. Ideally, when GHQ makes procurement decisions, it would do so with the National Guard in mind. This approach may generate some economies of scale to support local development in more areas (e.g., helicopters) too.

If we really want to take things up a notch, then we could look at setting up a Special Operations Force Command. Get each service arm (e.g., PA, PAF, PN) to contribute, but set up a common infrastructure and capacity point to support their respective SSG/SSW operations. So shared helicopters, ISR aircraft, vehicles, 'boats', and so on. So whenever there's an SSG ops, they can call upon SOFCOM to provide equipment support. This is where you can add turboprop attack planes, gunship-type transports, etc.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Almost 10k AK-103s are about to come, some are already here..... Not for regular army for now...

Good to know sir.

I’ve been looking at the AKs in use by the army already and have found some sort of a pattern. Currently it seems two (?) types of AKs are still being inducted. The Chinese Type 56-II with the side folding stocks and Bakelite furniture, and then another AK with polymer furniture and either a fixed tactical stock or an under folder (I consider these the same because the only difference is the stock). The under folder looks very similar to the one that was shown at POF. Leads me to believe that these two are being made at POF under AK-103 designation, even though they lack certain features of the 103 (namely the muzzle break and the polymer mag. The stock is also Different, dare I say better, than the actual 103. I also assume these are from POF because I cannot find who else makes these or where we imported them from. If so POF is making a rather modern AK.

Here are plenty of pictures of all three, pretty easy to tell the difference.
There are also a few actual 103s in service with both the SSG and regulars. We might see just these two being fully inducted or more actual 103s joining their ranks later.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Exactly, FC primarily, not for IB.... you can take it as a start of another massive rearmament program of the whole FC.

Makes sense. Army is already being rearmed, this is another step in the long term process to Make FC strong enough that minimal army presence is needed on western borders. FC can deal with any ANA or terrorism scum.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Yep. Ideally, when GHQ makes procurement decisions, it would do so with the National Guard in mind. This approach may generate some economies of scale to support local development in more areas (e.g., helicopters) too.

If we really want to take things up a notch, then we could look at setting up a Special Operations Force Command. Get each service arm (e.g., PA, PAF, PN) to contribute, but set up a common infrastructure and capacity point to support their respective SSG/SSW operations. So shared helicopters, ISR aircraft, vehicles, 'boats', and so on. So whenever there's an SSG ops, they can call upon SOFCOM to provide equipment support. This is where you can add turboprop attack planes, gunship-type transports, etc.

Let me ask you one thing. In PAs case can this just be achieved through restructuring and some creativity or would it also require a good deal of funds?

Also I feel the marines are too defensive in nature. If armed correctly with amphibious expeditionary equipment and air assets. Marines could help us take swaths of enemy territory which we can use to negotiate in a supposed conflict.

Good to know sir.

I’ve been looking at the AKs in use by the army already and have found some sort of a pattern. Currently it seems two (?) types of AKs are still being inducted. The Chinese Type 56-II with the side folding stocks and Bakelite furniture, and then another AK with polymer furniture and either a fixed tactical stock or an under folder (I consider these the same because the only difference is the stock). The under folder looks very similar to the one that was shown at POF. Leads me to believe that these two are being made at POF under AK-103 designation, even though they lack certain features of the 103 (namely the muzzle break and the polymer mag. The stock is also Different, dare I say better, than the actual 103. I also assume these are from POF because I cannot find who else makes these or where we imported them from. If so POF is making a rather modern AK.

View attachment 749901View attachment 749902View attachment 749903View attachment 749904View attachment 749905View attachment 749906View attachment 749907View attachment 749908View attachment 749909View attachment 749910View attachment 749911View attachment 749912 View attachment 749900

Here are plenty of pictures of all three, pretty easy to tell the difference.
There are also a few actual 103s in service with both the SSG and regulars. We might see just these two being fully inducted or more actual 103s joining their ranks later. View attachment 749915View attachment 749917

I believe those are custom Type 56s

 

[iLION12345_1]

Let me ask you one thing. In PAs case can this just be achieved through restructuring and some creativity or would it also require a good deal of funds?

Also I feel the marines are too defensive in nature. If armed correctly with amphibious expeditionary equipment and air assets. Marines could help us take swaths of enemy territory which we can use to negotiate in a supposed conflict.

I believe those are custom Type 56s

I can’t say much for the PAs restructuring, but I definitely like the idea for the creation of a Joint special forces command. Any restructuring always takes some funds, but in this case, I don’t think it would take too many, because we’re not talking about procurements, just about some movement and mission planning.
As for the Kind of restructuring Bilal mentioned earlier, with the FC and such being integrated into the national guard under army, yes that would simplify things, but I feel like that would take a lot of changes from the ground up to accomplish, something which with our attitude about things would take a lot of time and hamper the performance of the forces while it’s still underway. especially since the civilian government would have to be involved here.


But who is customizing these Type 56 in such large numbers? they are certainly not being delivered in this form. Not to mention excluding the stock these are identical to the AKs presented by POF (as those had underfolder stocks). So these could easily be POF origin.

 

[PanzerKiel]

I also want one more corp in Balochistan based Gawader or central part not Quetta

Jo hukum.... Hukum ki tameel ho gi...

Good to know sir.

I’ve been looking at the AKs in use by the army already and have found some sort of a pattern. Currently it seems two (?) types of AKs are still being inducted. The Chinese Type 56-II with the side folding stocks and Bakelite furniture, and then another AK with polymer furniture and either a fixed tactical stock or an under folder (I consider these the same because the only difference is the stock). The under folder looks very similar to the one that was shown at POF. Leads me to believe that these two are being made at POF under AK-103 designation, even though they lack certain features of the 103 (namely the muzzle break and the polymer mag. The stock is also Different, dare I say better, than the actual 103. I also assume these are from POF because I cannot find who else makes these or where we imported them from. If so POF is making a rather modern AK.

View attachment 749901View attachment 749902View attachment 749903View attachment 749904View attachment 749905View attachment 749906View attachment 749907View attachment 749908View attachment 749909View attachment 749910View attachment 749911View attachment 749912 View attachment 749900

Here are plenty of pictures of all three, pretty easy to tell the difference.
There are also a few actual 103s in service with both the SSG and regulars. We might see just these two being fully inducted or more actual 103s joining their ranks later. View attachment 749915View attachment 749917

Most of these are individual or unit level modifications max.... Not official or army or even POF level.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Let me ask you one thing. In PAs case can this just be achieved through restructuring and some creativity or would it also require a good deal of funds?

Also I feel the marines are too defensive in nature. If armed correctly with amphibious expeditionary equipment and air assets. Marines could help us take swaths of enemy territory which we can use to negotiate in a supposed conflict.

I believe those are custom Type 56s

It would require funds. The upfront might not be that much, but in the long-run, you're looking at the cost of wages, livelihoods, maintenance, etc. So, you'd need a bigger defence budget. But if you're removing the FC and other MoI units, you can offset those costs a bit.

That said, the real value of a National Guard isn't just the simplicity of having it under the Army, but IMO, it's the added professionalism. The National Guard would have a complete officer and NCO cadre (drawn from existing training facilities) and ability to switch officers between the National Guard and Army.

The civilian gov't might feel a bit insecure, but the point here is that they should feel confident in controlling the MoD and GHQ. If they don't, then we have deeper issues that need resolving. To be fair to GHQ, I can see why they feel apprehensive given the quality of our politicians.

This whole set-up works when you have a political establishment that has the complete trust of the military establishment and vice-versa. However, building that trust is not a trivial effort.

Maybe we introduce a rule that everyone running for an elected office must have served in the armed forces for two years (in any capacity, be it CO, NCO, civilian, contractor, etc).

 

[Zarvan]

Nopes, direct procurement.... We'll be seeing plenty of AK 103s in the hands of units under MoI in the very near future.

Sir AK 103 or its new version the AK 203.

I really hope Pakistan go for these. Also please if we are going then we should try to get TOT.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir AK 103 or its new version the AK 203.
View attachment 750049

I really hope Pakistan go for these. Also please if we are going then we should try to get TOT.

TOT is not there at the moment.

 

[mingle]

Jo hukum.... Hukum ki tameel ho gi...

Most of these are individual or unit level modifications max.... Not official or army or even POF level.

Thanks Sir I know it's hard and expensive to raise a Corp but my mean was area is big and there are pockets where these militants operate by increasing troop level with permanent development we will neutralize those pockets.

TOT is not there at the moment.

Get one FNScar for our Hazrat Zarvan plz

 

[spectregunship]

If the AK103 direct procurement is true, its not a very encouraging news in my point of view. There is nothing that AK103 brings to the table that the POF SMG Chinese / T56 does not.
Especially when the deal is direct procurement and does not involve any ToT / Offset for us.
I'm not sure if DP is involved in purchases for MoI tps but the decision makers are the ones in uniform. Could've asked for something better. BPJs, Armoured Cars, TIs or communication for that matter.

 

[Raja Porus]

To be fair to GHQ, I can see why they feel apprehensive given the quality of our politicians.

That'd be the most difficult thing in Pakistan.

Maybe we introduce a rule that everyone running for an elected office must have served in the armed forces for two years (in any capacity, be it CO, NCO, civilian, contractor, etc).

I respectfully disagree and also our people will not understand the true reason behind this rule and would blame army for tightening its grip on power.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I can’t say much for the PAs restructuring, but I definitely like the idea for the creation of a Joint special forces command. Any restructuring always takes some funds, but in this case, I don’t think it would take too many, because we’re not talking about procurements, just about some movement and mission planning.
As for the Kind of restructuring Bilal mentioned earlier, with the FC and such being integrated into the national guard under army, yes that would simplify things, but I feel like that would take a lot of changes from the ground up to accomplish, something which with our attitude about things would take a lot of time and hamper the performance of the forces while it’s still underway. especially since the civilian government would have to be involved here.


But who is customizing these Type 56 in such large numbers? they are certainly not being delivered in this form. Not to mention excluding the stock these are identical to the AKs presented by POF (as those had underfolder stocks). So these could easily be POF origin.

Yeah like @PanzerKiel said sometimes these are battalion/brigade level upgrades. That the unit commander gets for his unit.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

The National Guard would have a complete officer and NCO cadre (drawn from existing training facilities) and ability to switch officers between the National Guard and Army.

Do they stay in their home province like in US or move around?

How about two weekends a month and two weeks a year model? Probably not effective for Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't struggle to recruit people while US has to coax it's people by bonuses and free college etc.

As what you seem to suggest is more like Turkish/French Jandarma and the Jandarma/Gendarmerie Ozel Harekat Komutanlığı(Gendarmerie Special Operations Command) which works together with other forces(Army/AF/Navy/Police) in a SOCOM/JSOC model.

Right??

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Maybe we introduce a rule that everyone running for an elected office must have served in the armed forces for two years (in any capacity, be it CO, NCO, civilian, contractor, etc).

That's a great suggestion but the cry baby politicians will lobby heavily against it and it will help Pakistan by discouraging the corrupt Feudal politicians.

We can also educate entire Pakistan and give valuable experience to say a poor village girl who never wore proper shoes to experience civil and city life if we take them at say 15/8 grade give them metric at a military academy and then FSc education with national service whether it be building roads/infrastructure or military duty. Cadet college model with better amenities, better education and system that instills patriotism.

If above sounds a bit harsh modify it/tone it down.

This will eliminate the class differences and the differences between uneducated mullah class and the highly educated but sellout liberal class. Will also help put people from different provinces together and eliminate provincial animosities(maybe stop Punjabis from being offloaded from busses and executed lmao ). Instead of wasting Billions of dollars in education departments that become animal sheds under waderas eventually.

If the AK103 direct procurement is true, its not a very encouraging news in my point of view. There is nothing that AK103 brings to the table that the POF SMG Chinese / T56 does not.
Especially when the deal is direct procurement and does not involve any ToT / Offset for us.
I'm not sure if DP is involved in purchases for MoI tps but the decision makers are the ones in uniform. Could've asked for something better. BPJs, Armoured Cars, TIs or communication for that matter.

I agree in my view the Czech offered a much more comprehensive package in form of the Bren, it's modular design and related accessories. There was also the skorpion evo 2 that could've easily replaced the MP5.