Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Kompromat]

Main point of contention is caliber.

Fauj is double minded over 7.62x51 which automatically carries into .308 win sniper rifle ammunition. It has its own merits.

A progressive group in the Army supports a completely new system with a modern, future proof caliber. For example 6.5mm. Their main argument is what your argument is. If we're going to carry out a huge capital acquisition, it has to offer a significant edge over the previously held capabilities. Basically they think that the Army will be better off with a modern, high performance new caliber which remains future proof for the next 30-50 years period, rather than getting stuck with a Cold War era caliber, simply because we have too much ammo to replace, which will cost a lot. It can however be mitigated by exporting the held stock of 762 ammo to make way for a brand new caliber.

After 429 pages, any conclusion? No!

Changing the IW within any army is a complex task. Wishlists and fan favorites aside, one should realize that comparing Pakistan Army with Portuguese Army is a joke. We are comparing a fighting force of almost 250,000 to 15,000 or so troops in the latter. These are fighting troops. Then you add the PAF and PN to this list for economies of scale and we are talking about almost half a million individual weapons with sparing. What Portugal can afford for 15,000 troops is an entirely different proposition than equipping half a million.

For as long as the G-3 and AK variants continue to provide value, Pakistan will carry on. This is because this is one of the single largest capital acquisition for the army and one that happens perhaps once every 30-50 years (G-3 was adopted in 1967!)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Main point of contention is caliber.

Fauj is double minded over 7.62x51 which automatically carries into .308 win sniper rifle ammunition. It has its own merits.

A progressive group in the Army supports a completely new system with a modern, future proof caliber. For example 6.5mm. Their main argument is what your argument is. If we're going to carry out a huge capital acquisition, it has to offer a significant edge over the previously held capabilities. Basically they think that the Army will be better off with a modern, high performance new caliber which remains future proof for the next 30-50 years period, rather than getting stuck with a Cold War era caliber, simply because we have too much ammo to replace, which will cost a lot. It can however be mitigated by exporting the held stock of 762 ammo to make way for a brand new caliber.

One other issue is that the PA may not procure as many of the next-gen rifle as it had G3s. The future is shifting to a technology-heavy force, and the infantry force 20-30 years in the future may not be as large as it is today.

This is going to affect the overhead a little in that switching to a new rifle design (a fixed upfront cost of $300 m+ US) may not generate as much stretch as the G3. You need to offset that with exports, but for that, you need an attractive (read: new) design.

Second, a future infantry soldier might operate very differently from the one today. I think the LCB could offer a sign of where things are going, i.e., more specialization, autonomous operation, etc. So, any new rifle must meet those future needs in terms of weight, caliber, accessories, etc.

 

[Path-Finder]

One other issue is that the PA may not procure as many of the next-gen rifle as it had G3s. The future is shifting to a technology-heavy force, and the infantry force 20-30 years in the future may not be as large as it is today.

This is going to affect the overhead a little in that switching to a new rifle design (a fixed upfront cost of $300 m+ US) may not generate as much stretch as the G3. You need to offset that with exports, but for that, you need an attractive (read: new) design.

Second, a future infantry soldier might operate very differently from the one today. I think the LCB could offer a sign of where things are going, i.e., more specialization, autonomous operation, etc. So, any new rifle must meet those future needs in terms of weight, caliber, accessories, etc.

an air force driven army.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

an air force driven army.

Ideally, a lot more attack helicopters, transport helicopters, ISR aircraft (e.g., jets or turboprops with SAR-GMTI and EO/IR), artillery, tanks, tracked IFVs and wheeled AFVs with ATGM and 105 mm guns, UAVs, mobile SAM units, and possibly even fixed-wing turboprops (manned or drones), etc. You could still maintain a 500,000+ Army, but the future may see a higher proportion of those guys (vs. today) on equipment than on foot.

Basically go from an "Army" to a "Land Force."

 

[Sine Nomine]

US has tried and got itself failed.To me it looks like there is no replacement for 7.62x51mm in hindsight.
It's better to just wait and watch, outcome of US NGSW program,if it doesn't ends like previous one's,world may see another huge shift in small arms.

 

[Bilal.]

Main point of contention is caliber.

Fauj is double minded over 7.62x51 which automatically carries into .308 win sniper rifle ammunition. It has its own merits.

A progressive group in the Army supports a completely new system with a modern, future proof caliber. For example 6.5mm. Their main argument is what your argument is. If we're going to carry out a huge capital acquisition, it has to offer a significant edge over the previously held capabilities. Basically they think that the Army will be better off with a modern, high performance new caliber which remains future proof for the next 30-50 years period, rather than getting stuck with a Cold War era caliber, simply because we have too much ammo to replace, which will cost a lot. It can however be mitigated by exporting the held stock of 762 ammo to make way for a brand new caliber.

something that I proposed 2 years ago on this thread:

In my opinion, the decision should be suspended for a couple of years, since 7.62 is becoming obsolescent and we are on the verge of new (and superior) caliber standard being introduced, most likely a creedmoor derivative that would utterly outclass 762 in terms of accuracy, range, power, recoil and weight.

It would have to be gradual for sure, but buying billions worth of rifles that will stay with us for the next 30-40 years should not be based on an obsolescent round in my opinion.

 

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225103691222540295

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225103694145949696

It appears the thinking is universal now! makes sense to go with a universal approach.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Main point of contention is caliber.

Fauj is double minded over 7.62x51 which automatically carries into .308 win sniper rifle ammunition. It has its own merits.

A progressive group in the Army supports a completely new system with a modern, future proof caliber. For example 6.5mm. Their main argument is what your argument is. If we're going to carry out a huge capital acquisition, it has to offer a significant edge over the previously held capabilities. Basically they think that the Army will be better off with a modern, high performance new caliber which remains future proof for the next 30-50 years period, rather than getting stuck with a Cold War era caliber, simply because we have too much ammo to replace, which will cost a lot. It can however be mitigated by exporting the held stock of 762 ammo to make way for a brand new caliber.

current remaining stock can be gradually phased out. 6.5mm makes sense. its lighter and cheaper than 7.62 but still carries the weight and stopping power better than 5.5mm

 

[Kompromat]

We need to switch to .338 Lapua for sniper rifle applications.

 

[Sine Nomine]

We need to switch to .338 Lapua for sniper rifle applications.

A better idea would be having it alongside a .338 LM Machine Gun,it would fill gap between 7.62x51 and 12.7 machine guns and certainly would outgun enemy MG's.

 

[Amaa'n]

POF Walo!!!! Koi Sharam hoti hai koi Haya hoti hai

Its an AR10 .308 / 7.62x 51
They made entire rifle inhouse, Bolt to barrel to upper & lower to Trigger group....everything made on CNC machine......

https://www.facebook.com/

@Path-Finder @Zarvan @Horus

P.S I have seen the weapon and it's not bad, only thing missing is heat treatment......

 

[Zarvan]

POF Walo!!!! Koi Sharam hoti hai koi Haya hoti hai


They made entire rifle inhouse, Bolt to barrel to upper & lower to Trigger group....everything made on CNC machine......

https://www.facebook.com/

@Path-Finder @Zarvan @Horus

P.S I have seen the weapon and it's not bad, only thing missing is heat treatment......

POF really need to use these people plus some help from Turkish companies and can come up with one of the best AR style Rifle but that needs vision which people at POF seem to lack

 

[Path-Finder]

POF Walo!!!! Koi Sharam hoti hai koi Haya hoti hai


They made entire rifle inhouse, Bolt to barrel to upper & lower to Trigger group....everything made on CNC machine......

https://www.facebook.com/

@Path-Finder @Zarvan @Horus

P.S I have seen the weapon and it's not bad, only thing missing is heat treatment......

I knew if these boys could learn machining, tooling & CNC then they could develop instead of copy. What calibre is it?

 

[Sine Nomine]

It isn't easy as it seems.

 

[Amaa'n]

I knew if these boys could learn machining, tooling & CNC then they could develop instead of copy. What calibre is it?

this Quarantine is really taking a toll on me.theres a disconnect b/w my brain(what i intend to write) & what actually write :facepalm: ....i wanted to mention that it's an AR10 rifle and look i clearly ommitted that and on twitter i wanted to write AR10 and i wrote AR15 ......
am editing almost every post of mine on forum, some posts i even end up editing 5-7 times.........
and am Quarantined as in #Isolated at a facility....not that am infected but i came in contact with someone who was so..........

POF really need to use these people plus some help from Turkish companies and can come up with one of the best AR style Rifle but that needs vision which people at POF seem to lack

bhai they had been making M4 for 2yrs now and have perfected that as they perfected Tokarev.....
this one is actually AR10. chambered in 7.62, which so have has not been done by anyone.....
they are working on ARX 9mmniw