Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Zarvan]

The issue was x51 because any rifle with that calibre would have same recoil and control issues.In QRF we deployed it because mostly QRFF has to deal with CQB scenarios.


Lol Hazarat Over kill means that this weapon isn't required a weapon with low calibre can do the same job+will remove issues due to weight,length and recoil.
Have you killed someone with x39,at typical engagement ranges both x51 and 5.56 will leave body but x39 will stay.
At long ranges above 100 yards x51 platform offers a recoil which reduces chances of hitting but x39 is still controllable at that range with same punch as x51

Your AK also have massive recoil issue and yes as it's big caliber x 51 has recoil issue but soldiers are trained to handle it and SCAR has one of the least recoil.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Your AK also have massive recoil issue and yes as it's big caliber x 51 has recoil issue but soldiers are trained to handle it and SCAR has one of the least recoil.

Have you used AK or even studied it,new AK version are boosting a low recoil,hence more control and low weight,that allows carrying of more ammo and smooth movement in ops.
Low recoil doesn't means lower then x39 systems, you will not be able to use SCAR in CQB or Urban warfare due to length of system.
US and West is also thinking to depart from 5.56,it should be noted that they abounded x51 in past.

 

[Zarvan]

Have you used AK or even studied it,new AK version are boosting a low recoil,hence more control and low weight,that allows carrying of more ammo and smooth movement in ops.
Low recoil doesn't means lower then x39 systems, you will not be able to use SCAR in CQB or Urban warfare due to length of system.
US and West is also thinking to depart from 5.56,it should be noted that they abounded x51 in past.

US and West are departing from 5.56 but not going for x 39 but returning to x 51. USA is inducting SCAR H mainly and some units may go for HK 416 and HK 417. Also in Europe many companies are coming up with x 51 Rifles.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The advantage of these new 'modular' rifle designs - e.g. BREN, SCAR, ARX, etc - is that they can be built, and even modified, for different rounds. Switching the CZ-807 between 5.56 and 7.62x39 involves swapping barrel assembly, bolt and firing pin. The supply channel advantage is that POF doesn't need to embrace two or three rifle platforms, but simply produce one platform with the requisite parts for each round as required by the end-user.

 

[Arsalan]

Well this overkill comes with many limitations and x39 is also an over kill.For decades we have deployed x39 successfully in siachen.In WoT it proved it's worth along with system.There is nothing worth in carrying both at engagement ranges x39 offers same as x51 but also with low recoil,better control and deadly effects.
We have also a unit dedicated to produce x39 for AK's and RPD's

It does have many limitation, also considering PA scenario! I am not saying whether it is right or wrong, just stating that the army still have love for x51 and the reasons for this love affair. Overkill is just one thing i mentioned, the present setup is another major factor.

As i said, it is likely that we go for both but if it one that have to be selected, it SURELY should be x39 (the statement do confirms the limitations of x51)

 

[Gryphon]

Plus army do love its "over kill" capability. It is likely that we will go for two calibers, both x39 and x51. However i do agree that x51 do not offers much over x39 and it will be ideal if we can standardize the ammunition and go with one (which then SHOULD be 7.62 x 39mm and not x51) but the fact remains that we have huge stock piles of x51 and a well oiled setup for manufacturing the same, wont close that. Plus the NATO connection cannot be ignored either.

To conclude from my side, it is likely that both x51 and x39 will be selected, separate rifle for both. For battle field rifle, we will stick to x51 and for assault rifle and CQB we will go for x39.
However, if ONLY ONE have to be selected then it should surely be x39.

7.62x39mm can't penetrate higher NIJ Level Bullet proof jackets and vests.

A CZ official confirmed that PA tested both x39 and x51 versions of the CZ 807.

 

[Arsalan]

7.62x39mm can't penetrate higher NIJ Level Bullet proof jackets and vests.

A CZ official confirmed that PA tested both x39 and x51 versions of the CZ 807.

Yup we did. x51 is a love affair and given the some advantages it offer and considering the existing setup, it is likely that they will stay.

 

[Sine Nomine]

US and West are departing from 5.56 but not going for x 39 but returning to x 51. USA is inducting SCAR H mainly and some units may go for HK 416 and HK 417. Also in Europe many companies are coming up with x 51 Rifles.

Hazrat tell me a single fu@king county which has adopted SCAR as standard rifle and how many countries have adopted a Battle Rifle in past decades other Turkey.

Yup we did. x51 is a love affair and given the some advantages it offer and considering the existing setup, it is likely that they will stay.

And that's a one bad chosen love affair.

 

[Zarvan]

Hazrat tell me a single fu@king county which has adopted SCAR as standard rifle and how many countries have adopted a Battle Rifle in past decades other Turkey.


And that's a one bad chosen love affair.

SCAR is not being inducted because it has massive price that is why many countries are only getting them for there special forces I was amazed to see them in Pakistani trials but it seem we are ready to pay the price

 

[Sine Nomine]

SCAR is not being inducted because it has massive price that is why many countries are only getting them for there special forces I was amazed to see them in Pakistani trials but it seem we are ready to pay the price

Massive price is it 1 million a rifle?

 

[Gryphon]

Massive price is it 1 million a rifle?

Rifle leni hai ki missile ?

 

[parkour guy]

Let's finalize this.
Scar for the special forces.
CZ Bren 806 2 for regular infantry.

 

[Path-Finder]

The issue was x51 because any rifle with that calibre would have same recoil and control issues.In QRF we deployed it because mostly QRFF has to deal with CQB scenarios.


Lol Hazarat Over kill means that this weapon isn't required a weapon with low calibre can do the same job+will remove issues due to weight,length and recoil.
Have you killed someone with x39,at typical engagement ranges both x51 and 5.56 will leave body but x39 will stay.
At long ranges above 100 yards x51 platform offers a recoil which reduces chances of hitting but x39 is still controllable at that range with same punch as x51

This thing about x51 being brought back into service as claimed by Hazrat is not actually the case. yes x51 was briefly reintroduced because of the shortcomings of 556 and its ability to knock down opponents. But 556 has bounced back and the brief resurrection of x51 has been buried again.

556 is gonna go and the US is looking to develop a round based on x39, which being a good case has limitations as well. like tapering which means the magazine has to be curved. 300 blackout has seen limited adoption by special forces as it is 556 casing with 30 caliber bullet and fits standard 556 magazine with the stopping power of x39. All you need is barrel change or upper changes on a AR platform and you are good to go.

x51 will be for machine guns and squad level marksmen at most.

Yes money is not the issue but still SCAR is expensive Gun but we are ready to pay for it I talk like that because unlike people here I don't think that one day Generals woke up and decided to have trials of Guns from money to other aspects every issue was discussed for few years before deciding to go for new Rifle.

prove it. do you have the total cost of acquiring SCAR? don't repeat your old saying of money was not an issue when trials started. You have no info of the total cost of acquiring SCAR so please leave it be.

 

[Zarvan]

This thing about x51 being brought back into service as claimed by Hazrat is not actually the case. yes x51 was briefly reintroduced because of the shortcomings of 556 and its ability to knock down opponents. But 556 has bounced back and the brief resurrection of x51 has been buried again.

556 is gonna go and the US is looking to develop a round based on x39, which being a good case has limitations as well. like tapering which means the magazine has to be curved. 300 blackout has seen limited adoption by special forces as it 556 casing with 30 caliber bullet and fits standard 556 magazine with the stopping power of x39.

x51 will be for machine guns and squad level marksmen at most.


prove it. do you have the total cost of acquiring SCAR? don't repeat your old saying of money was not an issue when trials started. You have no info of the total cost of acquiring SCAR so please leave it be.

Going for SCAR means 50 year investment and producing it in Pakistan will also reduce the cost massively. Plus excellent Gun and would be with us for really long time finally we are also getting other weapons from makers of SCAR. What ever the cost is we are ready to pay and what I know is FN Herstal Guys are playing really great till now

 

[Sage]

Going for SCAR means 50 year investment and producing it in Pakistan will also reduce the cost massively. Plus excellent Gun and would be with us for really long time finally we are also getting other weapons from makers of SCAR. What ever the cost is we are ready to pay and what I know is FN Herstal Guys are playing really great till now

FN Herstal guys are not good at playing ...a case in point is their constant denial by the U.S Forces who always tilted towards Austria and Italy ...FN weapons are really the next level of tech ...But this is the problem with the whole mindset of the decision makers (who most of the time are fossils both in age and thinking)...at times they cannot absorb too much good ...SCAR is a reliable weapon ...If G-3 is to be replaced ...SCAR stands a real chance ...if money would not hamper this deal...