Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Kompromat]

Ak-103 beat BREN by a wide margin in the X39 tests. Don't take this report seriously.
SCAR is competing for X51 category.

 

[Path-Finder]

Ak-103 beat BREN by a wide margin in the X39 tests. Don't take this report seriously.
SCAR is competing for X51 category.

This is adding to more confusion!

 

[Zarvan]

Ak-103 beat BREN by a wide margin in the X39 tests. Don't take this report seriously.
SCAR is competing for X51 category.

Will you ever bother to end confusion. Now you are confusing us more. For which Assault Rifle we signed the contract for with Bren makers ?

 

[Kompromat]

Its quite simple. There are two calibers to be replaced.

7.62x39 = Bren - AK-103 & M22
7.62x51 = SCAR, ARX-200.

It is two different rifles, unless SCAR's X39 variant makes it to tests and wins.

This is adding to more confusion!

Will you ever bother to end confusion. Now you are confusing us more. For which Assault Rifle we signed the contract for with Bren makers ?

 

[Path-Finder]

Its quite simple. There are two calibers to be replaced.

7.62x39 = Bren - AK-103 & M22
7.62x51 = SCAR, ARX-200.

It is two different rifles, unless SCAR's X39 variant makes it to tests and wins.

a great battle of ideas and word have taken place under the guise of rifle replacement and none of it leads to a conclusive winner! I think the rifle replacement issue will linger further on!!

 

[Zarvan]

Its quite simple. There are two calibers to be replaced.

7.62x39 = Bren - AK-103 & M22
7.62x51 = SCAR, ARX-200.

It is two different rifles, unless SCAR's X39 variant makes it to tests and wins.

Yes okay but we have signed the agreement with BREN but you are saying AK-103 performed better in 7.62 x 39 caliber than BREN than for what we have signed MOU for ? @Horus

 

[Gryphon]

Two CZ officials confirmed CZ 807 BREN (x39) was a finalist (besides SCAR and ARX-200) and Radio Pakistan reported that POF & CZ signed LoU to negotiate sale of small arms. Now @Horus wants us to believe the BS posted above. On page 1 of this thread, he has praised the selection of BREN (despite hoping for a SCAR entry in x39).

And no M22 was trialed by PA in x39. Zastava M77 was tested in x51.

In the pic (L to R): Type 56, FN SCAR-H, Beretta ARX-200 and Zastava M77.

M77 was the first rifle to get eliminated. AK-103 failed in desert trials.

 

[Rafi]

I think the SCAR-H or ARX-200 could come, but as small batch orders for specific units, such as SSG. I don't think we wouldn't see two competing rifle platforms produced at POF. Besides cost, there is also the issue of competitive conflict-of-interest, why would FN Herstal, CZ, or Beretta part with export licenses when POF will also be producing and marketing the rifle of their competitor?

On the other hand, there is a chance we could see two rifle platforms manufactured in Pakistan, but only one would be done by POF. The other rifle would have to be made under license by a separate private sector company.

To produce the SCAR-H or ARX-200 under license, the local company will have to invest a lot in building-up a proper manufacturing site. This firm will also be competing with POF for domestic and overseas orders. But then again, if Zarvan is saying that the G-3 will be replaced by the SCAR-H or ARX-200, then in my view, this is the only way it can happen: POF will make the BREN and a private Pakistani gun manufacturer will make the SCAR-H/ARX-200.

It wouldn't be the strangest situation. If replacing the G-3s alone requires even 100,000 rifles, there's scale. The issue would be the presence of a capable manufacturing site at Pakistan (other than POF).

Speaking to people involved in the tender, though the SCAR did very well and was the favourite, because it had the trademark factor, but it's down side is its too damn expensive, even if license produced to scale.

I get the impression (could be wrong) that the PA is hesitant to spend so much money on a new rifle, when CZ is offering something just as good, and in the case of calibre conversion is much better than Scar.

In fact CZ is offering up front a ton of rifles for new recruits for orientation and SPEC OPS.

Also they are offering something priceless, a long term close relationship with upgrades, new tech.

The Italians have also sweetened the pot, but CZ have grabbed the tender by the goolies, it's theirs to lose now.

 

[Path-Finder]

Two CZ officials confirmed CZ 807 BREN (x39) was a finalist (besides SCAR and ARX-200) and Radio Pakistan reported that POF & CZ signed LoU to negotiate sale of small arms. Now @Horus wants us to believe the BS posted above. On page 1 of this thread, he has praised the selection of BREN (despite hoping for a SCAR entry in x39).

And no M22 was trialed by PA in x39. Zastava M77 was tested in x51.

In the pic (L to R): Type 56, FN SCAR-H, Beretta ARX-200 and Zastava M77.

M77 was the first rifle to get eliminated. AK-103 failed in desert trials.

There are more personal wishes than actual facts available! unfortunately

Speaking to people involved in the tender, though the SCAR did very well and was the favourite, because it had the trademark factor, but it's down side is its too damn expensive, even if license produced to scale.

I get the impression (could be wrong) that the PA is hesitant to spend so much money on a new rifle, when CZ is offering something just as good, and in the case of calibre conversion is much better than Scar.

In fact CZ is offering up front a ton of rifles for new recruits for orientation and SPEC OPS.

Also they are offering something priceless, a long term close relationship with upgrades, new tech.

The Italians have also sweetened the pot, but CZ have grabbed the tender by the goolies, it's theirs to lose now.

If I can pick your brains in the land of confusion. Is CZ offering x51 besides the x39 tested in the tender?

 

[s.k]

First of all, I´m Czech, so I lobbing for BREN, but...
...I don´t see only one reason, why the PA have to adopt two different types of assault/battle rifles. So if the CZ offer assault rifles, battle rifles, DMR as well, why buy two different rifles? Of course, we still talking only about technical, economic, industry and logistic issues.

In "assault BREN" and "battle BREN" PA got very similar weapons, with same logistic footprint. Soldiers can migrate between both rifles, without extra training. If soldiers carry both weapon, enemy can not easy recognise, which one soldier carry "assault BREN" or "Battle BREN", even "DMR BREN". And guys with battle rifles (or DMR) are top priority targets for enemies troops.

One of the most important issue is sustainability. The top priority for the PA (In my opinion) have to be sustain the maximum numbers of assault/battle rifles "combat ready" - everywhere, every-time, in all thinkable situations. Of course with the minimum cost and minimum logistic footprint.

So, I really don´t see only one reason (of course, i´m not talking about political issues) why PA need two (or more) types of small arms.

One type of assault rifles, battles rifles, DMR, short carbine, etc. substantially enhance combat effective of PA soldiers and reduce logistic footprint (costs, organizational challenges, spare parts, tools, etc.) and simplify training.

Argentina selected 2 Rifles the one is Barreta Arx200 and the other is AK103.

 

[Rafi]

There are more personal wishes than actual facts available! unfortunately


If I can pick your brains in the land of confusion. Is CZ offering x51 besides the x39 tested in the tender?

That's just it, they are offering the full spectrum package and the rifle is easily converted, the whole design is modular.

I think the PA by signing the memorandum of understanding with CZ is clearly indicating that it's the favourite, to win the tender, which taking into account the Armed Forces could eventually involve over a million rifles

The Navy and Airforce would buy what is being produced by POF.

 

[Zarvan]

Two CZ officials confirmed CZ 807 BREN (x39) was a finalist (besides SCAR and ARX-200) and Radio Pakistan reported that POF & CZ signed LoU to negotiate sale of small arms. Now @Horus wants us to believe the BS posted above. On page 1 of this thread, he has praised the selection of BREN (despite hoping for a SCAR entry in x39).

And no M22 was trialed by PA in x39. Zastava M77 was tested in x51.

In the pic (L to R): Type 56, FN SCAR-H, Beretta ARX-200 and Zastava M77.

M77 was the first rifle to get eliminated. AK-103 failed in desert trials.

@Horus have hardly been proven wrong. He keeps quite and enjoys the show sitting behind mostly but he is well connected. So let's wait for the final results. @Rafi

 

[farhan_9909]

Bren is the best choice apart from performance and cost.The czech company will be willing to help POF in local manufacturing and further improvement.

 

[Zarvan]

There are more personal wishes than actual facts available! unfortunately


If I can pick your brains in the land of confusion. Is CZ offering x51 besides the x39 tested in the tender?

@Horus doesn't come up with his personal wishes. He comes up with facts and he has best sources here on forum. Most occasions he is proven right so let's wait and see what happens because if you remember there were news that Pakistan has ordered large numbers of AK-103 few months ago.

 

[Path-Finder]

@Horus doesn't come up with his personal wishes. He comes up with facts and he has best sources here on forum. Most occasions he is proven right so let's wait and see what happens because if you remember there were news that Pakistan has ordered large numbers of AK-103 few months ago.

I meant you Hazrat @Zarvan not @Horus