Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[s.k]

can any one here tell me whats the meaning of Memorandum of letter ? is it means PA signed the contract ? does it means the selected the Bren ? and Rejected all ? think a bit about it.

 

[Rafi]

SCAR lovers are going to be bitterly disappointed (I was one of them).

Reasons being.

1) price - FN is not being flexible on this, so potentially VERY expensive for the PA.

2) the PA has a very ambitious modernization and upgrade programme which involves everything from net centric to much better rations. Will be jeopardised by spending too much on a new rifle.

3) the Italians have also in mind of CZ have made a much better offer.

If FN don't humble themselves, they are gonna lose big, and could end of with nothing. With only their own arrogance to blame.

 

[Path-Finder]

SCAR lovers are going to be bitterly disappointed (I was one of them).

Reasons being.

1) price - FN is not being flexible on this, so potentially VERY expensive for the PA.

2) the PA has a very ambitious modernization and upgrade programme which involves everything from net centric to much better rations. Will be jeopardised by spending too much on a new rifle.

3) the Italians have also in mind of CZ have made a much better offer.

If FN don't humble themselves, they are gonna lose big, and could end of with nothing. With only their own arrogance to blame.

What say you to this Hazrat @Zarvan

Me thinks CZ + Beretta or CZ x 2.

 

[Rafi]

What say you to this Hazrat @Zarvan

Me thinks CZ + Beretta or CZ x 2.

I think (no disrespect to maulview Saab) that he has a hard on for Scar and is taking it too personal.

Most likely CZ Bren wins the tender outright, less likely CZ wins and a few thousand SCAR or Berreta are purchased off the shelf for SPEC FCS.

 

[Path-Finder]

I think (no disrespect to maulview Saab) that he has a hard on for Scar and is taking it too personal.

Most likely CZ Bren wins the tender outright, and a few thousand SCAR or Berreta are purchased off the shelf for SPEC FCS.

it is beginning to look like this and i think we should collect chanda to Buy Hazrat a plastic SCAR to cool things down!

 

[Rafi]

it is beginning to look like this and i think we should collect chanda to Buy Hazrat a plastic SCAR to cool things down!

Frankly I am at a total loss at why he is in love with the FN produced by those liberal Belgies. Where the lassies are pretty and randy.

 

[Zarvan]

What say you to this Hazrat @Zarvan

Me thinks CZ + Beretta or CZ x 2.

BREN is not competing in 7.62 x 51 caliber only SCAR H and Berreta ARX 200 are in game for G3 replacement. We are using two different rifles

 

[Path-Finder]

BREN is not competing in 7.62 x 51 caliber only SCAR H and Berreta ARX 200 are in game for G3 replacement. We are using two different rifles

you are an android!

 

[Kompromat]

There's a reason why I hardly write on this thread, its full with kids. CZ lost to AK-103, if it gets selected, it will have to do things other than 'performance in trials'. SCAR won the x51 trials by a wide margin, Italians are down to dirty tactics to win the tender. Before ideas, Army team visited Belgium and met with FN reps. @Oscar @balixd

@Horus have hardly been proven wrong. He keeps quite and enjoys the show sitting behind mostly but he is well connected. So let's wait for the final results. @Rafi

 

[Thunder.Storm]

There's a reason why I hardly write on this thread, its full with kids. CZ lost to AK-103, if it gets selected, it will have to do things other than 'performance in trials'. SCAR won the x51 trials by a wide margin, Italians are down to dirty tactics to win the tender. Before ideas, Army team visited Belgium and met with FN reps. @Oscar @balixd

Can you give some detail about how cz lost to ak. thanks

 

[Kompromat]

Rafi bhai, let me jump in.

There are 2 caliber requirements.

1: 7.62x39 to replace Type-56, Bren didn't win those trials, their rifle malfunctioned multiple times. The trial was convincingly won by AK-103.

2. 7.62X51 to replace G-3.

SCAR-H won the tests by a considerable margin with ARX-200 stumbling behind.

Terms & Conditions : FN is offering full package, including full technology transfer, training, upgrading the factory tools, associated goodies like UBGLs, grips, even down to red dot sights. FN is also offering full rights to export the rifle after the Pakistani requirements have been satisfied. They are also offering 7.62X51 variant of the Minimi because that tender is also coming up. They have also presented their DMRs for tests.

SCAR lovers are going to be bitterly disappointed (I was one of them).

Reasons being.

1) price - FN is not being flexible on this, so potentially VERY expensive for the PA.

2) the PA has a very ambitious modernization and upgrade programme which involves everything from net centric to much better rations. Will be jeopardised by spending too much on a new rifle.

3) the Italians have also in mind of CZ have made a much better offer.

If FN don't humble themselves, they are gonna lose big, and could end of with nothing. With only their own arrogance to blame.

Metallurgy - AK-103 is like a Tank, it works everytime. CZ couldn't beat it. Plus mags are interchangeable with other AKs and the soldiers don't need much training to operate it as its ergonomics are almost identical to Type56.

Can you give some detail about how cz lost to ak. thanks

 

[my name is nobody]

AK-103 was dropped by user formations. It was too heavy with poor ergonomics. It also failed in accuracy and moreover one of the rifles exploded. Overall the weapon is not what we want.

In 7,62x51 there are three competitors: Beretta ARX-200, CZ BREN (7,62x51), FN SCAR. All three are still under evaluation from different angles. What can be said is that CZ and FN were considered as the weapon platforms we want, whilst Beretta was rejected by formations and had multiple other issues.

 

[farhan_9909]

AK-103 was dropped by user formations. It was too heavy with poor ergonomics. It also failed in accuracy and moreover one of the rifles exploded. Overall the weapon is not what we want.

In 7,62x51 there are three competitors: Beretta ARX-200, CZ BREN (7,62x51), FN SCAR. All three are still under evaluation from different angles. What can be said is that CZ and FN were considered as the weapon platforms we want, whilst Beretta was rejected by formations and had multiple other issues.

Thanks

 

[Wolfhound]

Rafi bhai, let me jump in.

There are 2 caliber requirements.

1: 7.62x39 to replace Type-56, Bren didn't win those trials, their rifle malfunctioned multiple times. The trial was convincingly won by AK-103.

2. 7.62X51 to replace G-3.

SCAR-H won the tests by a considerable margin with ARX-200 stumbling behind.

Terms & Conditions : FN is offering full package, including full technology transfer, training, upgrading the factory tools, associated goodies like UBGLs, grips, even down to red dot sights. FN is also offering full rights to export the rifle after the Pakistani requirements have been satisfied. They are also offering 7.62X51 variant of the Minimi because that tender is also coming up. They have also presented their DMRs for tests.



Metallurgy - AK-103 is like a Tank, it works everytime. CZ couldn't beat it. Plus mags are interchangeable with other AKs and the soldiers don't need much training to operate it as its ergonomics are almost identical to Type56.

Some of the best news i have heard so far in this thread as of yet! So we just have to kick back and hope for a Scar x39 variant to sweeten the deal even further as it would be ideal to produce a single rifle rather than two.

@Horus why arent we looking at the Scar HAMR IAR instead of the Minimi? Wouldnt it be a more ideal choice with its combined closed and open bolt configuration?

 

[LegitimateIdiot]

First of all, I´m Czech, so I lobbing for BREN, but...
...I don´t see only one reason, why the PA have to adopt two different types of assault/battle rifles. So if the CZ offer assault rifles, battle rifles, DMR as well, why buy two different rifles? Of course, we still talking only about technical, economic, industry and logistic issues.

In "assault BREN" and "battle BREN" PA got very similar weapons, with same logistic footprint. Soldiers can migrate between both rifles, without extra training. If soldiers carry both weapon, enemy can not easy recognise, which one soldier carry "assault BREN" or "Battle BREN", even "DMR BREN". And guys with battle rifles (or DMR) are top priority targets for enemies troops.

One of the most important issue is sustainability. The top priority for the PA (In my opinion) have to be sustain the maximum numbers of assault/battle rifles "combat ready" - everywhere, every-time, in all thinkable situations. Of course with the minimum cost and minimum logistic footprint.

So, I really don´t see only one reason (of course, i´m not talking about political issues) why PA need two (or more) types of small arms.

One type of assault rifles, battles rifles, DMR, short carbine, etc. substantially enhance combat effective of PA soldiers and reduce logistic footprint (costs, organizational challenges, spare parts, tools, etc.) and simplify training.

you just joined to state that opinion

Two CZ officials confirmed CZ 807 BREN (x39) was a finalist (besides SCAR and ARX-200) and Radio Pakistan reported that POF & CZ signed LoU to negotiate sale of small arms. Now @Horus wants us to believe the BS posted above. On page 1 of this thread, he has praised the selection of BREN (despite hoping for a SCAR entry in x39).

And no M22 was trialed by PA in x39. Zastava M77 was tested in x51.

In the pic (L to R): Type 56, FN SCAR-H, Beretta ARX-200 and Zastava M77.

M77 was the first rifle to get eliminated. AK-103 failed in desert trials.

beautifal