Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Path-Finder]

Bhai trials are over. We are not going to do any new trials. For both tenders rifles are tested and now short listed and talks are on. For 7.62 x 39 deal is done with BREN and for 7.62 x 51 talks are on and we would soon hear about the winner. Either Berreta or SCAR H will come.

another thing if we members wish to discuss a BREN in x51 then why does your sabre begin to rattle? this is a forum for discussions is it not?? regardless whatever the trails are based on and whatever the tenders may be!!!

 

[Zarvan]

Scar maybe for special forces only with limited numbers because they are too expensive

We knew about the costs before we started trials and SCAR H and Berreta ARX 200 are shortlisted to replace G3 and our special forces don't use G3. So no SCAR H or Berreta would not be coming in short numbers which ever of these rifle is selected will come in large numbers and will be produced in Pakistan. @Path-Finder Many members of forum and also my group on face book participated in IDEAS 2016 and they also met FN SCAR guys and SCAR guys were pretty confident that they would win the tender and they are not that dumb that they had no clue for what Pakistan signed MOU with BREN makers. Still they were confident so that clearly indicates that BREN and SCAR are participating for different tenders.

 

[Path-Finder]

We knew about the costs before we started trials and SCAR H and Berreta ARX 200 are shortlisted to replace G3 and our special forces don't use G3. So no SCAR H or Berreta would not be coming in short numbers which ever of these rifle is selected will come in large numbers and will be produced in Pakistan. @Path-Finder Many members of forum and also my group on face book participated in IDEAS 2016 and they also met FN SCAR guys and SCAR guys were pretty confident that they would win the tender and they are not that dumb that they had no clue for what Pakistan signed MOU with BREN makers. Still they were confident so that clearly indicates that BREN and SCAR are participating for different tenders.

i say this again if we are wanting to discuss something that is contradicting with your opinion then why do you get iffy about it? that is what I am trying to get at! there is a world beyond SCAR BREN ARX & if a better platform comes then what happens? I get it you have sources but discussion and having sources are things poles apart!!

 

[Zarvan]

i say this again if we are wanting to discuss something that is contradicting with your opinion then why do you get iffy about it? that is what I am trying to get at! there is a world beyond SCAR BREN ARX & if a better platform comes then what happens? I get it you have sources but discussion and having sources are things poles apart!!

We are not going to test any new rifle. We tested rifles for both contenders many of them passed our tests and few rifles were short listed for both tenders for 7.62 x 39 CZ 807 have won and will come with TOT and for G3 replacement talks are on with Berreta and SCAR. We are not interested in checking any new rifle

 

[Path-Finder]

We are not going to test any new rifle. We tested rifles for both contenders many of them passed our tests and few rifles were short listed for both tenders for 7.62 x 39 CZ 807 have won and will come with TOT and for G3 replacement talks are on with Berreta and SCAR. We are not interested in checking any new rifle

again you are repeating like a machine? maybe you are a machine! read what i wrote again!

 

[Zarvan]

again you are repeating like a machine? maybe you are a machine! read what i wrote again!

Mr when you go to buy a car you don't start imagining what if a next model comes in next 6 months sorry but if you start doing this you would never able to buy a weapon or a car or anything.

 

[Path-Finder]

Mr when you go to buy a car you don't start imagining what if a next model comes in next 6 months sorry but if you start doing this you would never able to buy a weapon or a car or anything.

Hazrat I am fascinated with your lack of open mindedness and inability with listen to different reasoning, may it be wrong or right! if i am purchasing a car i decide what is best and go far and wide to seek out the best and if my picked choices are not sufficient I wait and keep faith in Allah and keep looking. The patience pays off or Sabar pays off!

 

[Zarvan]

Hazrat I am fascinated with your lack of open mindedness and inability with listen to different reasoning, may it be wrong or right! if i am purchasing a car i decide what is best and go far and wide to seek out the best and if my picked choices are not sufficient I wait and keep faith in Allah and keep looking. The patience pays off or Sabar pays off!

Sorry you may wait but countries don't wait that much. You test best available things on that time select one and go for it and yes as we are humans we would improving things but that doesn't mean you waste years in deciding what you need. What you are suggesting is won't get us anything okay let say in next one month some country produces better assault rifle than CZ 807 BREN 7.62 X 39 should we drop whole deal and run after that. Sorry but nothing can work like that. You need too be open minded not me you are suggesting something which would only keep delaying things.

 

[Path-Finder]

Sorry you may wait but countries don't wait that much. You test best available things on that time select one and go for it and yes as we are humans we would improving things but that doesn't mean you waste years in deciding what you need. What you are suggesting is won't get us anything okay let say in next one month some country produces better assault rifle than CZ 807 BREN 7.62 X 39 should we drop whole deal and run after that. Sorry but nothing can work like that. You need too be open minded not me you are suggesting something which would only keep delaying things.

again i am NOT talking about rifle selection at all! But carry on. But you know better than everyone so what can I say!

 

[LegitimateIdiot]

SCAR H because not only it performed better in trials but also I know people who are in contact with FN and also our Army they are also suggesting that SCAR has more chances but you never know so waiting for final decision to take place on 7.62 X 51 caliber rifle to get selected.

don't feel bad the cz is very scar like in terms of deisgn

 

[Zarvan]

don't feel bad the cz is very scar like in terms of deisgn

Brother SCAR H and Berreta ARX 200 are participating for replacing G3 and BREN was participating to replace Type 56. I was also confused till yesterday but friend has cleared the confusion now. Type 56 replacement has been selected that is CZ 807 BREN and for G3 talks are still taking place

 

[Sulman Badshah]

This article (link - thanks @JohnEurope) says that there are 7.62x51 mm BREN 2s with 14" and 16" barrels:

"CZ BREN 2 v "sovětské ráži" má stejně dlouhé hlavně, mimo nejkratší, ta začíná na délce 9". Existuje také verze CZ BREN 2 pro náboj 7,62×51 NATO s 14" a 16“ hlavní."

English (Google Translate):

CZ BREN 2 in the "Soviet caliber" has the same length barrel, off short, it starts on the length of 9 ". There is also a version of the CZ BREN 2 charge for 7.62 × 51 NATO with 14" and 16 "barrel.

http://www.armadninoviny.cz/utocna-puska-cz-bren-2-novy-pristup-nove-mysleni.html

haven't seen Bren with X51 ammo ... Although a pic would've been nice ...

14" will be too short for our eastern front ... 16" is standard barrel Although it should be good if they introduce long barrel like 20" as well ..

Article also states that for PA X39 is being offered

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Mr when you go to buy a car you don't start imagining what if a next model comes in next 6 months sorry but if you start doing this you would never able to buy a weapon or a car or anything.

I did when buying a new cellphone ( had galaxy s3 since 2012), and nobody stopped me or it reduced any of my cellular communication abilities. Should do the same with cars, fridge, wife etc. and anyother important thing or decision in life which will stay with you for a long time. Jaldbazi ka failsa Shaitaan ka faisla hota hai.

Sorry you may wait but countries don't wait that much. You test best available things on that time select one and go for it and yes as we are humans we would improving things but that doesn't mean you waste years in deciding what you need. What you are suggesting is won't get us anything okay let say in next one month some country produces better assault rifle than CZ 807 BREN 7.62 X 39 should we drop whole deal and run after that. Sorry but nothing can work like that. You need too be open minded not me you are suggesting something which would only keep delaying things.

Brother the wait time for these decisions at a country level is even longer ... governments and large millitaries move slowly. How quickly did we decide on submaries (previously was german/french), replacement of current old frigates ( still no solid plan insight, atleast publicly), Alkhalid 2 and Alhaider tank programs (the delays and cycles they went through is well known) Indian MMRCA decision etc. G3 even though outdated, its not like it has stopped working ... they still shoot fine and do the job and we can keep on manufacturing them to replace old ones. Unlike large systems like fighter jets and frigates which cannot be easily replaced.
For example you can continue using G3 as a rifle, as long as the ground situation or dynamics at the soldier level dont change drastically (such as introduction of lasers!). All militaries are still using 7.62/5.56. bullets with range of 300 to 600 meters. But for a fighter aircraft you can't field a 3rd gen fighter when the adversary has 4.5+ or 5th gen aircrafts.

Anyway another year for evaluation a BREN 7.62x51 shouldn't hurt at all and may turn out to be worth it. There is a strong business case, as we will develop/upgrade POF for Bren 807, and most of these new facilities and tech I hope can be used to produce a Bren 7.62x51 rifle. If I can borrow some of @Quwa words, you were open for a 7.62x39 version of a SCAR prototype selected, because it would make sense if SCAR H is chosen for 7.62x51; but then if the reverse is suggested to achieve commanality by getting 7.62x51 rifle from the manufacturer of the selected 7.62x39 bren rifle ... we suddenly are out of time or trials are closed? Is this a sale event that has expired or a theater drama that has started and no new entries are allowed? Trials can be restarted with Bren 7.62x51 included if PA decides (remember PWS included in mid of these trials, oplot M going through retrials as well etc.) and no one can stop them, if they think that this will result in savings without compromising on operational requirements. In short retrial of weapons is nothing new and can happen in this case; not saying it will happen as we still haven't heared if PA is thinking this way.

Regards

 

[Zarvan]

I did when buying a new cellphone ( had galaxy s3 since 2012), and nobody stopped me or it reduced any of my cellular communication abilities. Should do the same with cars, fridge, wife etc. and anyother important things in life which will stay with you for a long time. Jaldbazi ka failsa Shaitaan ka faisla hota hai.


Brother the wait time for these decisions at a country level is even longer ... governments and large millitaries move slowly. How quickly did we decide on submaries (previously was german/french), replacement of current old frigates ( still no solid plan insight, atleast publicly), Alkhalid 2 and Alhaider tank programs (you know more about these programs and the delays and cycles they went through), Indian MMRCA decision etc. G3 even though outdated, its not like it has stopped working anymore ... they still shoot fine and do the job and we can keep on manufacturing them to replace old ones. Unlike large systems like fighter jets and frigates which cannot be simply replaced and you need to find a new system to replace them based on the threats and latest techs.
For example you can continue using G3 as a rifle, as long as the ground situation or dynamics at the soldier doesn't change drastically ... all militaries still using 7.62/5.56. bullets witn range of 300to 600 meters. But for a fighter aircraft you cant field a 3rd gen fighter when the adversary has 4.5+ or 5th gen a/c. Unless the adversaries soldiers start getting lets say laser rifles ... then thats a game changer and would need to be addressed asap.

Anyway another year for evaluating a BREN 7.62x51 shouldnt hurt at all; There is a strong business case, as we will develop/upgrade POF for bren 807, and most of these facilities can be used to produce a bren 7.62x51 rifle. I mean if I can borrow some of @Quwa words, you were open for a 7.62x39 version of a SCAR prototype selected, because it would make sense if scar h is choosen; but then if the reverse is suggested to achieve commanality by getting 7.62x51 rifle from the manufacturer of the selected 7.62x39 rilfe ... we suddenly are out of time or trials are closed? Is this a sale event that has expired or a theater drama that has started and no new entries are allowed ? Trials can be restarted with Bren 7.62x51included if PA decides (remember PWS included in mid of these trials, oplot M going through retrials as well etc.) and no one can stop them them, if they thinks that this will result in huge savings without compromsing on operational requirements. In short retrial of weapons is nothing new and can happen in this case (not saying it will happen as we still havent heared if PA is thinking this way).

Regards

I am not going to debate further. Turns out BREN wasn't competing in 7.62 x 51 version rifle or G3 replacement. They were competing to in replacement for Type 56 and have won that. For G3 replacement SCAR H and BERRETA ARX 200 are short listed and one of them would come.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am not going to debate further. Turns out BREN wasn't competing in 7.62 x 51 version rifle or G3 replacement. They were competing to in replacement for Type 56 and have won that. For G3 replacement SCAR H and BERRETA ARX 200 are short listed and one of them would come.

Zarvan mate you are placing a huge burden on your brain and you should rest, this Rifle replacement is become far too personal for you.

I did when buying a new cellphone ( had galaxy s3 since 2012), and nobody stopped me or it reduced any of my cellular communication abilities. Should do the same with cars, fridge, wife etc. and anyother important thing or decision in life which will stay with you for a long time. Jaldbazi ka failsa Shaitaan ka faisla hota hai.


Brother the wait time for these decisions at a country level is even longer ... governments and large millitaries move slowly. How quickly did we decide on submaries (previously was german/french), replacement of current old frigates ( still no solid plan insight, atleast publicly), Alkhalid 2 and Alhaider tank programs (the delays and cycles they went through is well known) Indian MMRCA decision etc. G3 even though outdated, its not like it has stopped working ... they still shoot fine and do the job and we can keep on manufacturing them to replace old ones. Unlike large systems like fighter jets and frigates which cannot be easily replaced.
For example you can continue using G3 as a rifle, as long as the ground situation or dynamics at the soldier level dont change drastically (such as introduction of lasers!). All militaries are still using 7.62/5.56. bullets with range of 300 to 600 meters. But for a fighter aircraft you can't field a 3rd gen fighter when the adversary has 4.5+ or 5th gen aircrafts.

Anyway another year for evaluation a BREN 7.62x51 shouldn't hurt at all and may turn out to be worth it. There is a strong business case, as we will develop/upgrade POF for Bren 807, and most of these new facilities and tech I hope can be used to produce a Bren 7.62x51 rifle. If I can borrow some of @Quwa words, you were open for a 7.62x39 version of a SCAR prototype selected, because it would make sense if SCAR H is chosen for 7.62x51; but then if the reverse is suggested to achieve commanality by getting 7.62x51 rifle from the manufacturer of the selected 7.62x39 bren rifle ... we suddenly are out of time or trials are closed? Is this a sale event that has expired or a theater drama that has started and no new entries are allowed? Trials can be restarted with Bren 7.62x51 included if PA decides (remember PWS included in mid of these trials, oplot M going through retrials as well etc.) and no one can stop them, if they think that this will result in savings without compromising on operational requirements. In short retrial of weapons is nothing new and can happen in this case; not saying it will happen as we still haven't heared if PA is thinking this way.

Regards

I said roughly the same thing but Hazrat @Zarvan just doesn't understand that because of personal lust of a certain system! Regardless good try but it still falls short