Pakistan's Political Will "wavering" In Pakistan

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Does pakistan have the political will---that is a very pointed question---in my understanding it is no the right question. Regardless what ever has happened, pakistan has kept up its pressure on the taliban and their sympathisers over all these years---possibly to the best of its ability---I say that what if the pakistani didnot know what to do or how to react under those unique circumstances---and the world would say---it is your problem---it is in your backyard---it is your job to take care of the issue and neutralize the culprits.

And we say that we did it to the best of our abilities----and they say that your best is not good enough---Actually we pakistanis never realized that our best would not be enough----we had been so used to saying that this is the best we can do and getting away with it---we thought that like always---this statement will come through----well this statement has come true for our cricketers---and specially true for our HOCKEY players----well what if the big boy says that I am going to beat you up for not doing the job to his satisfaction. Pakistanis never thought that day would really come----they thought that they would somehow or the other, squirm out of it----but then today's bombings and raid inside SYRIAN BORDER has totally lowered the bar.

Today I firmly believe that whenever the muslims are facing the strongest threat from outside---there is more bickering and inhouse fighting inside amongst oursleves.

You know the funny thing that the taliban / al qaeda are fighting for---israel and palestine---the palestinians could care less about supporting al qaeda. What they have seen is that al qaeda has brought more misery in their lives---in the same manner as the actions of pakistani muslims brings misery in the lives of the indian muslims.

I believe that at the age of 60 plus----pakistan and pakistanis are still very young in understanding the issues that are faced by men and nations. Pakistanis have a severe form of identity crisis----most of them are lost and wandering about as to where they belong---where lays their loyalties---are they a nation or are they a part of a bigger mob---the blame for that lies with the government---what it comes down to is being pakistani first and foremost---love your country first. The govt should have a serious media campaign about who we are, what is our focus, goals and priorities, what does it takes to be and known as a citizen----where the do the duties of the citizens start----why do I need to be identified as a pakistani---why is there a need to re-think about everybody being a muslim brother and forgetting who you are.

Pakistan may not lose this battle at the millitary front----but it will lose it at the political propganda front.

S-2 does ask some very pointed questions----but his problem just like most of the american generals and advisors is that he does not understand what the pakistanis are thinking or the lack of thinking---what direction do they need to be guided by the govt and the media---where do they need to focus their energies to get the most for their nation's wel-being---.

S-2 thinks that our intellect about our soveriegnity is that on the same level as that of a jesuit or a baptist working for the agencty or a marine wearing the uniform. Americans have a hard time understanding what makes the pakistanis destroy themselves at the whims of some saudi, egyptian, yemeni expats who cannot lay a foot on the soil of their respective motherlands. Amricans cannot understand why do the pakistanis not have a nationalistic pride about who the pakistanis are and what our identity is. Why do we keep bowing down like beggars in front of the people who wear a robe and a head scarf? These things are so foreign to the americans that when you tell them about these issues---they care less----for them the country comes first and foremost---regardless of race color creed or gender.

For that reason I have stated many a times---even though pakistan and the u s do talk to each other----and even thoug the language spoken is english or urdu---they still cannot understand each others mindset.

So----IS PAKISTAN'S POLITICAL WILL WAVERING---absolutely not----the problem is that U S has not told the pakistani govt how to fight the media war against the opposition leaders and religious parties supporting the taliban.

Unless there is no organized media campaign a full blooded campaign 24/7 on the tv radio and print, this war is going to linger on.

It is a mis-statement on the part of the west----pakistan's will is not wavering---it is mis-directed.

 

[Awesome]

The recent blows Pakistan has dealt to TTP is a testament to Pakistan's resolve to combat terrorism. When Pak pointed out the location of Baitullah Mehsud it was the US that gave him a pass, where a sneak attack by a drone would've done the trick. Now that is taken by 90% of the Pakistanis as America's involvement and support of TTP. The terrorists that have killed hundreds in Pakistan.

It takes two to tango.

It is the US that is planning a withdrawal and Pak has nothing like that planned. Pakistan's WILL is to secure itself. The US wants Pak to secure the US and damn itself. I think the Americans need to understand that anyone that disagrees with you is not an enemy and the world does not revolve around them.

 

[fatman17]

i am simple-minded person.
political wavering i dont know but this much i can say is that we dont have a choice at this time. we have to finish off this war in the FATA.
the economic meltdown is there but there is a silver-lining to this. the huge black/grey economy of pakistan (by some estimates = to the official GDP) will fuel the local economy.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hello Asim,

The u s has let ubl slip out of its sights three times---the flimsy excuse was that the operator had to get the approval from the top and the top was busy somewhere else. It is not in u s's best interest to take the man out. If they took him out----there job is basically done. Then they will have to leave the country and at that time, they didno want to do that.

The pakistani millitary heirarchy didnot catch on it----they should have adopted this issue as their own problem right from the day one and neutralized the enemy right at the slopes of the mountains.

The u s special forces chickened out on the day of tora bora excursion---the spec forces would say that the the top generals and Rummy chickened out---they didnot want to spill any american blood that day and let the locals handle the situation---I mean to say if you people read the script of the tora bora exceursion----or the day after saddam's army put their weapons down----the U S army and its generals and Donald Rumsfeld were behaving like it was an EPISODE FROM MONTY PYTHON'S CIRCUS-----truly at that times the realization came true!!!!!!!-----incompetence has met its match in the form of the commanding general, the sec def, the advisors----.

Now please don't get me wrong---we all fear the might and destructive powers of the u s army just because of its technical superiority----but man can you imagine if they really had capable men---who really really had some thinking gray matter sitting on top of their shoulders in that position at that time----what wonders could they have accomplished---alas.

Oh, by the way I have also hunted deer at 9000 feet elevation in the u s many atimes successfully----it does not give me any bragging right to fight a high altitude battle in the Hindu Kush mountains---at tora bora---the u s millitary special forces were caught with their pants around their ankles sitting in their secure housings----well they were not even in the arena---they weren't even prepared. They didnot have no fighting force prepared and ready, that could go up at 9 and 10 thousand feet and fight the enemy, when it counted the most. " THIS IS THE PICTURE OF CORPORATE AMERICA ITS WORST----THE U S ARMY HAD BECOME A CORPORATION AND YES MEN AND YES MINSITERS RULED WITHOUT ANY PENTENANCE. Well today they can come and beat me up and do whatsoever----but on that day---where it counted the most----they were a total failures. Their strategies and game plan implementation was the joke of the world armies----the tragedy that was the failure in understanding the seriousness of the venture at hand was absolutely on the scale of being BLASPHEMOUS.

 

[ejaz007]

New Pak effort against terrorism encouraging: US, Canadian dailies

WASHINGTON: A US and a Canadian daily found Pakistan’s new efforts against terrorism ‘encouraging’ and said US should respond accordingly. An editorial in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin noted that the anti-Taliban lashkars are poorly armed with aging rifles, while Taliban fighters are equipped with rocket launchers and heavy guns. “However, newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari this month arranged for the purchase of assault rifles and other small arms from China to better arm the lashkars.” The National Post, a Canadian newspaper, said that besides encouraging volunteer militias against Taliban, The Pakistani military has also accepted nearly three dozen US special forces trainers to help improve the effectiveness of their own counterterrorism forces. “Both, admittedly, are but small first steps. But at least they are steps in the right direction,” the Post stresses. The Canadian daily alleges: “Our troops have occasionally witnessed Pakistani agents and border guards loading Taliban trucks or cheering them on as they drive over the Pakistan border and into Afghanistan.” “Since General Musharraf resigned earlier this year, the situation in the tribal regions has worsened, and there have emerged hints that the mood in Islamabad has changed,” the editorial states. khalid hasan


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Pakistan's political will is not wavering. It was the military aspect that was slow to move forward. It seems now that the military has finally learned about the terrorists strategies and they are making good progress. If our political will was wavering the operation would have been stopped by now or would have bogged down.

 

[RabzonKhan]

The recent blows Pakistan has dealt to TTP is a testament to Pakistan's resolve to combat terrorism. When Pak pointed out the location of Baitullah Mehsud it was the US that gave him a pass, where a sneak attack by a drone would've done the trick. Now that is taken by 90% of the Pakistanis as America's involvement and support of TTP. The terrorists that have killed hundreds in Pakistan.

It takes two to tango.

It is the US that is planning a withdrawal and Pak has nothing like that planned. Pakistan's WILL is to secure itself. The US wants Pak to secure the US and damn itself. I think the Americans need to understand that anyone that disagrees with you is not an enemy and the world does not revolve around them.

Sorry to say this, but this sounds fishy to me, are we not capable enough to take out the terrorists on our own?

 

[RabzonKhan]

Pakistan's political will is not wavering. It was the military aspect that was slow to move forward. It seems now that the military has finally learned about the terrorists strategies and they are making good progress. If our political will was wavering the operation would have been stopped by now or would have bogged down.

Exactly.

 

[Patriot]

We cannot win this war with just military.We have to show to people that this is OUR war.I don't know why our media is not doing anything.Media can play a huge role in this war..

 

[third eye]

The way things are & considering what is at stake, I agree that the will is not ( & cannot) wavering.

Each nation has its own domestic & international compulsions which have to be taken into consideration while handling situations like these.

Pak will overcome & survive, but the issue is at what cost ?

 

[fatman17]

New Pak effort against terrorism encouraging: US, Canadian dailies

WASHINGTON: A US and a Canadian daily found Pakistan’s new efforts against terrorism ‘encouraging’ and said US should respond accordingly. An editorial in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin noted that the anti-Taliban lashkars are poorly armed with aging rifles, while Taliban fighters are equipped with rocket launchers and heavy guns. “However, newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari this month arranged for the purchase of assault rifles and other small arms from China to better arm the lashkars.” The National Post, a Canadian newspaper, said that besides encouraging volunteer militias against Taliban, The Pakistani military has also accepted nearly three dozen US special forces trainers to help improve the effectiveness of their own counterterrorism forces. “Both, admittedly, are but small first steps. But at least they are steps in the right direction,” the Post stresses. The Canadian daily alleges: “Our troops have occasionally witnessed Pakistani agents and border guards loading Taliban trucks or cheering them on as they drive over the Pakistan border and into Afghanistan.” “Since General Musharraf resigned earlier this year, the situation in the tribal regions has worsened, and there have emerged hints that the mood in Islamabad has changed,” the editorial states. khalid hasan


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Pakistan's political will is not wavering. It was the military aspect that was slow to move forward. It seems now that the military has finally learned about the terrorists strategies and they are making good progress. If our political will was wavering the operation would have been stopped by now or would have bogged down.

i dont agree - it was stop and go. this is what musharraf who was chief at that time wanted.

 

[S-2]

Hi,

Feel better? Quite a rambling, if incoherant, rant. Two posts worth. Hmmm..., let's see- Syria, Palestine, information operations, deer hunting at 9,000 ft., Tora Bora, Rumsfeld, corporate America, Army generals, technology warfare, etc.

Very think-tanky, sir.

Was there something specific on your mind?

I learned this much- your will isn't "wavering". It's just lost and can't find it's way home.

Why in God's name would you hunt deer at 9,000ft. and where? That's what I'd want to know?

 

[RabzonKhan]

An inside account of the army


By Irfan Husain
October 25, 2008

AS our troops fight the militants in Bajaur and elsewhere, we are suddenly reminded of the point of having an army.

For far too long, the institution had become synonymous with dictatorship and repression. But now we can see it as the last bulwark against an enemy that has so far faced little or no resistance in its bid to take over the country.

Unlike earlier operations, when the political and military commands were combined in the hands of a general, this time the army’s leadership is free to focus on its primary duty without juggling simultaneously with political calculations. The result is a focused campaign in which the military enjoys the support of the elected government. And although there might not be a clear-cut public endorsement of its offensive, at least the majority is behind it. While most of us are saddened by the collateral damage caused by the fighting, we do understand that these militants have to be neutralised.

Clarity of purpose is essential to succeed in military matters. As Shuja Nawaz makes plain in his book Crossed Swords: Pakistan, its Army and the Wars Within, our army has been so deeply involved in politics that it is now considered the country’s most powerful political party. Indeed, it is impossible to write about Pakistan’s history without dwelling at length on the activities and personalities of our generals.

In his magisterial account of the Pakistan Army, Shuja Nawaz takes us back to the days of British India when the colonial army was raised. He then writes about the early days of the fledgling force when, even in its infancy, it began to display Bonapartist attitudes. The plots and the jockeying for power are fascinatingly laid bare in this painstaking history

For many of us who have lived under the army’s jackboot during its repeated interventions, it is hard not to be angry and bitter as we assess its impact on Pakistan’s political development. Nawaz has the advantage of distance: for several decades, he has worked in Washington at the IMF. From here, he has been able to gain access to many American sources and key players.

And while Crossed Swords is an objective study, it is also an insider’s account: the author is from a distinguished military family, and whose brother, Gen Asif Nawaz, was army chief until his tragic death during his tenure. In addition, many of Shuja Nawaz’s relatives have served in the army in senior positions. This has given him unparalleled access to the upper echelons of the military.

He writes knowledgably about the Islamisation process in the army that began under Zia, and was continued by some of his successors. Thus, operational plans are now often subject to prayer for the Almighty’s intercession instead of rigorous cost-benefit analysis. In a fascinating and depressing passage about this trend in the ISI, Nawaz writes: “[Newly appointed director general of the ISI Gen Javed Ashraf] Qazi describes a strange non-military atmosphere at the ISI when he arrived to take over on very short notice. The corridors were filled with bearded officers in civilian shalwar-kameez, many of them with their shalwar hitched up above their ankle, a signature practice of the Tablighi Jama[a]t to which the former DG Javed Nasir belonged. He was shown the ‘strong room’ that once had ‘currency stacked to the ceiling’, but was now empty as adventurist ISI officers had taken ‘suitcases full of cash’ to the field, including to the newly independent Central Asian states, ostensibly to set up safe houses and operations there in support of Islamic causes. There were no accounts or receipts for these money transfers … Most officers were absent from their offices for extensive periods, often away for ‘prayers’…”

Combining political and military leadership was to spell disaster in 1965 and 1971. Nawaz’s account of the latter conflict, in particular Yahya Khan and his coterie’s bumbling approach, made me angry all over again after all these years. Pakistan’s pathetic military efforts in its western wing exposed the hollowness of the doctrine ‘the defence of the East lies in the West’.

When the Indians attacked East Pakistan in November 1971, our soldiers mostly sat in their tanks and their bunkers, waiting for orders to counter-attack. Those orders never came. Our planes attacked in pairs instead of waves. This paralysis at GHQ and the presidency led directly to the surrender ceremony at the Race Course in Dhaka on Dec 16.

I wish the author had used his encyclopaedic knowledge to expand on the atrocities committed by the army in the run-up to the war. All kinds of casualty figures have been tossed around, but that is not the point: if the army, a disciplined fighting force, killed even a thousand unarmed civilians, such acts could not be justified or defended (as they were sought to be) by the terrorist attacks carried out by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengali freedom fighters. In the event, the number of victims was far higher, a matter of shame for every Pakistani.

The author was eyewitness to many of the events then unfolding in West Pakistan as he was a news presenter with PTV. The ham-handed propaganda efforts masterminded by Roedad Khan would have been funny had not their consequence been so tragic. Not only did Pakistan lose all sympathy and support in the rest of the world, our media managers had convinced the leadership as well as the public that victory was around the corner. With only the official radio and TV to tell us what was going on, many Pakistanis fell for the official line.

In his impeccably researched and fluently written account, Nawaz tells us of the manoeuvring that goes on behind the scenes each time a new army chief is being selected. But despite the efforts of politicians to select a soldier without political ambition, they usually get it wrong. And each time, we end up paying for these errors in judgment.

Today, the dangers Pakistan faces call for a closer understanding between the political leadership and the army command. This partnership must be based on the universal concept of military subordination to elected political government. Only this will ensure the public support the military needs to function effectively. But before the army can take on the Islamic militants in the tribal areas and within our cities, it has to cleanse its own ranks of these elements.

 

[batmannow]

An inside account of the army


By Irfan Husain
October 25, 2008

AS our troops fight the militants in Bajaur and elsewhere, we are suddenly reminded of the point of having an army.

For far too long, the institution had become synonymous with dictatorship and repression. But now we can see it as the last bulwark against an enemy that has so far faced little or no resistance in its bid to take over the country.

Unlike earlier operations, when the political and military commands were combined in the hands of a general, this time the army’s leadership is free to focus on its primary duty without juggling simultaneously with political calculations. The result is a focused campaign in which the military enjoys the support of the elected government. And although there might not be a clear-cut public endorsement of its offensive, at least the majority is behind it. While most of us are saddened by the collateral damage caused by the fighting, we do understand that these militants have to be neutralised.

Clarity of purpose is essential to succeed in military matters. As Shuja Nawaz makes plain in his book Crossed Swords: Pakistan, its Army and the Wars Within, our army has been so deeply involved in politics that it is now considered the country’s most powerful political party. Indeed, it is impossible to write about Pakistan’s history without dwelling at length on the activities and personalities of our generals.

In his magisterial account of the Pakistan Army, Shuja Nawaz takes us back to the days of British India when the colonial army was raised. He then writes about the early days of the fledgling force when, even in its infancy, it began to display Bonapartist attitudes. The plots and the jockeying for power are fascinatingly laid bare in this painstaking history

For many of us who have lived under the army’s jackboot during its repeated interventions, it is hard not to be angry and bitter as we assess its impact on Pakistan’s political development. Nawaz has the advantage of distance: for several decades, he has worked in Washington at the IMF. From here, he has been able to gain access to many American sources and key players.

And while Crossed Swords is an objective study, it is also an insider’s account: the author is from a distinguished military family, and whose brother, Gen Asif Nawaz, was army chief until his tragic death during his tenure. In addition, many of Shuja Nawaz’s relatives have served in the army in senior positions. This has given him unparalleled access to the upper echelons of the military.

He writes knowledgably about the Islamisation process in the army that began under Zia, and was continued by some of his successors. Thus, operational plans are now often subject to prayer for the Almighty’s intercession instead of rigorous cost-benefit analysis. In a fascinating and depressing passage about this trend in the ISI, Nawaz writes: “[Newly appointed director general of the ISI Gen Javed Ashraf] Qazi describes a strange non-military atmosphere at the ISI when he arrived to take over on very short notice. The corridors were filled with bearded officers in civilian shalwar-kameez, many of them with their shalwar hitched up above their ankle, a signature practice of the Tablighi Jama[a]t to which the former DG Javed Nasir belonged. He was shown the ‘strong room’ that once had ‘currency stacked to the ceiling’, but was now empty as adventurist ISI officers had taken ‘suitcases full of cash’ to the field, including to the newly independent Central Asian states, ostensibly to set up safe houses and operations there in support of Islamic causes. There were no accounts or receipts for these money transfers … Most officers were absent from their offices for extensive periods, often away for ‘prayers’…”

Combining political and military leadership was to spell disaster in 1965 and 1971. Nawaz’s account of the latter conflict, in particular Yahya Khan and his coterie’s bumbling approach, made me angry all over again after all these years. Pakistan’s pathetic military efforts in its western wing exposed the hollowness of the doctrine ‘the defence of the East lies in the West’.

When the Indians attacked East Pakistan in November 1971, our soldiers mostly sat in their tanks and their bunkers, waiting for orders to counter-attack. Those orders never came. Our planes attacked in pairs instead of waves. This paralysis at GHQ and the presidency led directly to the surrender ceremony at the Race Course in Dhaka on Dec 16.

I wish the author had used his encyclopaedic knowledge to expand on the atrocities committed by the army in the run-up to the war. All kinds of casualty figures have been tossed around, but that is not the point: if the army, a disciplined fighting force, killed even a thousand unarmed civilians, such acts could not be justified or defended (as they were sought to be) by the terrorist attacks carried out by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengali freedom fighters. In the event, the number of victims was far higher, a matter of shame for every Pakistani.

The author was eyewitness to many of the events then unfolding in West Pakistan as he was a news presenter with PTV. The ham-handed propaganda efforts masterminded by Roedad Khan would have been funny had not their consequence been so tragic. Not only did Pakistan lose all sympathy and support in the rest of the world, our media managers had convinced the leadership as well as the public that victory was around the corner. With only the official radio and TV to tell us what was going on, many Pakistanis fell for the official line.

In his impeccably researched and fluently written account, Nawaz tells us of the manoeuvring that goes on behind the scenes each time a new army chief is being selected. But despite the efforts of politicians to select a soldier without political ambition, they usually get it wrong. And each time, we end up paying for these errors in judgment.

Today, the dangers Pakistan faces call for a closer understanding between the political leadership and the army command. This partnership must be based on the universal concept of military subordination to elected political government. Only this will ensure the public support the military needs to function effectively. But before the army can take on the Islamic militants in the tribal areas and within our cities, it has to cleanse its own ranks of these elements.

a pro-BHUTTO , colimist or what!

 

[RabzonKhan]

Asfandyar stresses joint Pak-Afghan efforts to fight terror

Tuesday, October 28, 2008
Bureau report

PESHAWAR: Central President of the Awami National Party and Chairman Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs Asfandyar Wali Khan has said Pakistan and Afghanistan should jointly combat terrorism as peace and normalcy in both the neighbouring countries are co-related.

According to a press release issued by Bacha Khan Markaz Monday, the ANP leader was addressing party workers and Pakhtuns community living in Sweden. NWFP Minister for Schools and Literacy Sardar Hussain Babek, Khan Gul Jadoon and ANP organizer in Europe Johar Afridi also addressed the function.

Asfandyar Wali Khan said the Pakhtuns were fighting a war for their survival as an alien war had been imposed on their soil wherein the ultimate victims were the local people and tribesmen, living on both sides of the Pak-Afghan border.

“We have to face the current situation with strong will and determination to save our soil from the foreign insurgents,” he added. He said the schools, colleges, hospitals, seminaries and even mosques were being bombed and destroyed by those who could not see the Pakhtun children getting modern education.

“Our innocent children and youth were brain-washed and being used as suicide bombers against their own people,” he said, adding that as a nation, we have to collectively fight the battle against terrorism and its propagators.

The ANP leader said there would be no peace and stability in the region unless Pakistan and Afghanistan joined hands against terrorism. He said the ANP-led government in the NWFP still preferred negotiations to the use of force, however, the militants should first lay down arms while agreeing for agreement with government.

 

[RabzonKhan]

a pro-BHUTTO , colimist or what!

Nope. A pro-democracy writer and a great thinker.