Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

[The Accountant]

You are completely wrong as always. RBE-2AA has more than a 1000 TRMs (exact no. classified).
The one with 840 modules was an early prototype with older gen American TRMs. The production version has smaller new gen European TRMs:

Indian Rafales may have side looking AESA arrays and has Spectra EW suite with new GaN based AESA modules.

So for you around 1,000 means more than 1,000. Even if I take you statement of 1,000 TR modules then how could you claim it to have superrior range than similar TR modules KLJ7A?

Furthermore, RBE2A has GaA TR modules not GaN and do not have side looking modules.

Don't misstate the facts.

There is no proof that RBE2A has superrior range than KLJ7A.

 

[Danish Moazzam]

You are completely wrong as always. RBE-2AA has more than a 1000 TRMs (exact no. classified).
The one with 840 modules was an early prototype with older gen American TRMs. The production version has smaller new gen European TRMs:

Indian Rafales may have side looking AESA arrays and has Spectra EW suite with new GaN based AESA modules.

Ya the original writer is saying IF and MAY BE and you are asserting them as facts. Nice try in twisting the words. Post it over a hundred forums like you guys usually do and it will be an established fact Like the SPICe(Y) bomp that managed to create a small dia hole in a roof and create an explosion to kill 300 people and not damage the structure at all.

Or the shooting of the Pakistani F-16, or the dodging of the AMRAAM or the ability to locate the AMRAAM parti in less than 12 hrs and still being unable to find the CVR of the heli for days shot by your own self.

Heck you even lost a transport aircraft and it took days to find the aircraft. AMAAZING people.

Luckily there are other countries where rational people live.

We Also have strong hints that PL-15 will be having range of 500KM for fighter air craft sized target and JF-17 new AESA radar will be able to detect LO (0.1m2) aircraft at ranges exceeding 500km. housing 2000+TRM on next gen quantum processing

Guess if pulling stuff from your a$$ is allowed i can do a lot more.

 

[The Eagle]

You are completely wrong as always.

You really need to work with your attitude as such as told you before. We are not here to prove someone completely wrong or provoke others like this. I am sure this is not your first time for doing so & not the first to inform you as well.

 

[The Eagle]

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Repeat 1000s of times that what does JF means for Thunder? Someone like you who doesn't know the facts for JF=Joint Fighter but keeps harping on calling it otherwise; shouldn't be dealt with soft reminder anymore.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

FYI, IAF ordered only 50 Astra MK1 for extensive user trails and to mate with different fire control radars of fighter jets. So for the information is available, It will not be mass-produced but ASTRA 2 which is equivalent of AIM-120 anr I-Derby ER with 160 km range with duel pulse motor. Astra 2 is just the addition of duel pulse motor for range increase of Astra 1 and it will be ready for mass production in 2021. IAF is playing smart here by ordering few Astra 1 for integration with different fighters and by the time Astra 2 will be ready and mass-produced so that it could immediately added to the arsenal.

MK1 was planned to be integrated with the Su-30MKI fleet along the I-Derby ER way before you posted this and a deal for 200/+ (both with AGAT and Indian seekers) was already at work in 2019 (248 cleared for procurement in July this year), clearly all info obviously hinted towards a short run mass production. No Mark 2 isn't an equivalent of I-Derby ER, MK1 has around the same range while MK2 out-ranges it by +50Km, the propulsion system doesn't matter if the range gap is too big because the terminal attack phase of both missiles are separated by a large range of around 50Km or more, so MK1 is more of an equivalent capability-wise

 

[ziaulislam]

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/KLJ-7A_a003556001.aspx

LOTS of talk about 300km BVR ranges

But people dont realise 300km even 200KM BVR range is useless without the accompanying RADAR power

SO KLJ 7A the new AESA radar on Thunder has 170km range with a 5m RCS target plane.

So you may pick SU30MKI and MIG29 at 170km BUT zero chance of picking up Rafale OR Tejas at above 100km as both have rcs of under 1m

One more thing the PL15 has no ramjet technology SO beyond 150km it loses serious speed an kinetic energy

PLAAF adsvertise PL15 as AWACS killer ie SLOW LARGE MOVING TRAGETS.

This is why the Meteore is still the best rated BVR on planet earth ............. WHY = best NEZ and RAM JET

Sir what are you smoking
1. With fuel tanks and missles even rafale will have big enough RCS to be detected 100+km range
2. Klj 7 specs are not known..we only assume its 170km
3. Pl-15 is pulse engine not single burn engine..its almost twice the size of meteor and hence the range being equal (or more per american think tanks) to meteor. it kinetics is not an issue for pulse rocket as it preserve its fuel for final impact. Aim 120d is lighter than meteor and has range greater then 150km!!!!!
4.sir please for god sake dont confuse PL-15 with PL-XX which is rocket with slow manverbility just google it you will see the images of pl12,pl15 and plxx(rumoured as pl21)
5. The link u provided is an amateur website ..EVEN wikipedia is better then this lol
PS: The plan production is 50 by 2023 this can change as it is not full rate production. PAF will field 11+ AWECs in small battlefield so good luck with situational awareness

 

[ziaulislam]

lastly, no..no non Russian missiles will be integrated with su 30..
we all the know the Russian model..
sell cheap and milk later..

Russia will argue it has better missles and sell it other versions to india

 

[m52k85]

I find it so amateurish when people compare max range of AA-Missiles with max range of radar. Even without the fancy capabilities that can come with a data link, it is a massive increase in capability. Imagine with Pl-12 we could take a 100 km shot if adversary continues to come towards launch platform and doesnt maneuver, now with pl-15 you can take the same shot and allow for (some) evasive maneuvers as well.

Remember the shot on the Su-30 was not an R-max (~100km) shot, it was in between R-max and NEZ at around 75 km, so comparing the known/ alleged max ranges of Klj-7 and pl-15 is pretty meaningless even if they are accurate.

 

[ziaulislam]

I find it so amateurish when people compare max range of AA-Missiles with max range of radar. Even without the fancy capabilities that can come with a data link, it is a massive increase in capability. Imagine with Pl-12 we could take a 100 km shot if adversary continues to come towards launch platform and doesnt maneuver, now with pl-15 you can take the same shot and allow for (some) evasive maneuvers as well.
%
Remember the shot on the Su-30 was not an R-max (~100km) shot, it was in between R-max and NEZ at around 75 km, so comparing the known/ alleged max ranges of Klj-7 and pl-15 is pretty meaningless even if they are accurate.

whats worse people(only indians) still think meteor is eevrything.

aim 120D which weights less then meteor (150 vs 190kg) and PL-15 which weights 60% more then meteor(around 250-300kg) and 100% more then aim120D have less kinetic energy? NO, both are infact both are pulse rocket engines and will ahve energy till the end.

aim 120 D which weights 150kg has range of 150kms (atleast)

now pl-15 which is almost twice the weight(based upon size estimation) , what will its range be (also a similar pulse rocket engine)..300? 200? 150?

of course Chinese are not as good as Americans so we wont say twice the range but atleast it will be similar or slightly more..150-200

americans and chinese both tested and left the ramjet design for a reason..cost and life on pylon

i wonder how much will india acquire to begin with..given the cost and life cycle

lastly the behemoth seen on J-11 is not PL-15 but an unnamed PL-XX, that is still under testing and its range just based upon its design (a blastic artillery with no mid line fins) is thought to 300-400+ kms .

i dont know how PL-XX will be used, we can only assume it will be fired at great distance to target objects very far that are non maneuverability, may be tankers and AWECs. Its will probably demand upon its large radar seeker and infrared seeker and will inherently have a low kill ratio even against tankers

 

[m52k85]

aim 120D which weights less then meteor (150 vs 190kg) and PL-15 which weights 60% more then meteor(around 250-300kg) and 100% more then aim120D have less kinetic energy? NO, both are infact both are pulse rocket engines and will ahve energy till the end.

Where did you get the 250-300kg weight for pl-15? I thought it was more in the 150-200kg range per reports.

 

[ziaulislam]

Where did you get the 250-300kg weight for pl-15? I thought it was more in the 150-200kg range per reports.

i have never seen any report, some where read its will be around 250kg.

share if you find any reprots.

but PL-15 is bigger than pl12(190kg) , so some report implies it will be heavier

 

[m52k85]

i have never seen any report, some where read its will be around 250kg.

share if you find any reprots.

but PL-15 is bigger than pl12(190kg) , so some report implies it will be heavier

I had come across a picture analysis, you know the ones that compare unknown dimension vs known dimensions on a pic, the pl-15 didnt come out to be much larger than a pl-12. Cant find that at the moment, but here is picture of both, both have pl-10 next to them, to me it certainly doesnt seem like one is 50% bigger than the other in any dimension.

 

[m52k85]

The extra range I believe comes from improved design much like the evolution from c-5 to c-7 and then to D in the case of AMRAAM. In anycase likemy post #341 states its a much welcome increase in capability.

 

[m52k85]

@ziaulislam As far as the diameter goes, pl-12 and pl-15 are similar according to these links:

"China has yet to release any physical data on the PL-15, but its body diameter appears to be similar to the PL-12 medium-range AAM. "

Air-launched missiles and the PLAAF | China's Chengdu J-20 multi-role fighter | Free IISS analysis

Is China looking to increase the number of air-to-air missiles that its Chengdu J-20 multi-role fighter can carry internally? The PLA Air Force continues to make progress across a range of air-to-air systems, writes Douglas Barrie.

www.iiss.org

Chinese Air-To-Air Missile Hits Targets, Spooks USAF General

China test fires a new long range air to air missiles, the PL-15, putting the US Air Force on notice.

www.popsci.com

The second link also puts the length to be near identical.

 

[vi-va]

No not at all, That wasn’t my intent.

I meant that AWACS/Ground Long Range Radars/Remote Sensors/Naval radars->Satellites->AAM (only mid course post launching but before terminal).

I believe in such a scenario, The terminal guidance would also be from much distance, since the PL-1X could be a VLRAAM due to its high fuel capacity in turn giving it range not enough for the small radars on AAMs.

I did laugh on a joke tho that came to my mind reading your post, I imagined an AAM with a fighter size nose but missile size body just to keep track of target

The sensor is not in the nose, actually it's on the side of the missile. The missile will fly in near space, about 60km-100km, and glide down to the target. It's easier for the sensor to find stealthy target from above since the back of stealthy jet is not stealthy at all, and reflection is much larger even compare with 4th generation jet. In this case, you can install much larger radar seeker in the side of the missile.

Something like this, sensor will be installed in the below of the missile. Very large radar is possible, very expensive as well, but still far more cheaper than F-35.