Pakistan's Musharraf to form political party

[Stumper]

He should enjoy his time in retirement and stop worrying about us , he has done enough damage to us along with his Imported PM Shaukat Aziz.

He can face security risks if he goes Back to Pakistan , Balochs are looking for him , PPP is Looking for him , Taleban are looking for him.

Do you really think that this notorious crook will ever be able to lead the country again?

I'm amazed when people call him crook. I mean by what definition has he cheated the people of Pakistan?

He had his fair share of mistakes (Kargil, Judge Ifitikhar controversy , etc). But the question that merits a discussion is :
1)Did he personally benefit for any of his action's?
2)His actions, were they taken considering what he believed were in best interest of Pakistan?

I suppose, most of his decision's were based on what he felt were the need of hour and in best interest of Pakistan. What they eventually turned out to be might be a different issue. But he definitely had the best interest of Pakistan in his mind when he did what he did. Also kindly remember , in hindsight some of his decision's might appear to be damaging but they were definitely bold for its time.

I think its not right to put him in the same league as more corrupt politicians like Mr.N.S and Mr.10% .

At best, we can afford to call him a bad decision maker --- but calling him crook is stretching a bit too far.

 

[T-Faz]

I'm amazed when people call him crook. I mean by what definition has he cheated the people of Pakistan?

He had his fair share of mistakes (Kargil, Judge Ifitikhar controversy , etc). But the question that merits a discussion is :
1)Did he personally benefit for any of his action's?
2)His actions, were they taken considering what he believed were in best interest of Pakistan?

I suppose, most of his decision's were based on what he felt were the need of hour and in best interest of Pakistan. What they eventually turned out to be might be a different issue. But he definitely had the best interest of Pakistan in his mind when he did what he did. Also kindly remember , in hindsight some of his decision's might appear to be damaging but they were definitely bold for its time.

I think its not right to put him in the same league as more corrupt politicians like Mr.N.S and Mr.10% .

At best, we can afford to call him a bad decision maker --- but calling him crook is stretching a bit too far.

Ignore that guy, he rants on and on about nonsensical matters.

 

[Stumper]

Ignore that guy, he rants on and on about nonsensical matters.

But i have seen similar sentiments being expressed in broader press as well. From here, we saw him as one of the cleanest you guys had in more recent time's. We had our own reasons for not wanting him at the helm.... but i could never reason why Pak's citizen wanted his ouster (i mean atleast he was clean from the corruption perspective!!)

 

[T-Faz]

But i have seen similar sentiments being expressed in broader press as well. From here, we saw him as one of the cleanest you guys had in more recent time's. We had our own reasons for not wanting him at the helm.... but i could never reason why Pak's citizen wanted his ouster (i mean atleast he was clean from the corruption perspective!!)

The broader press and any other groups who share that sentiment are aligned with politial parties that Musharraf ousted. For some reason they care more about their political parties then what is in the best interest of the group.

Another thing that affected his image drastically was the judges fiasco. Otherwise he was held in high esteem, did very well for the country and that is the reason why he is coming back. You think that a guy who is not wanted by Pak's citizen will start his own political party and in such a short space of time after his tenure ended only a few years ago.

Lets wait and see, what happens.

 

[NWO]

The only bad things, besides stripping away freedom from the people in 2007, was being America's petdog. If he grows some backbone, he'll make one hell of a leader.

 

[Stumper]

The only bad things, besides stripping away freedom from the people in 2007, was being America's petdog. If he grows some backbone, he'll make one hell of a leader.

If you are hinting that it was Mr.Musharaff who roped in US forces in your homeland, Thats not entirely correct --- Considering the economic and political situation in your country during his time -- He had very limited options but to support US (U remember India lending its support, economic crisis, etc)

But then why blame him alone?... Your present government had the option to withdraw this tactical support .. but it continues to back the drones and US war.

 

[Meengla]

If you are hinting that it was Mr.Musharaff who roped in US forces in your homeland, Thats not entirely correct --- Considering the economic and political situation in your country during his time -- He had very limited options but to support US (U remember India lending its support, economic crisis, etc).

Correct. I mean what kind of choices Musharraf had on 12th Sept. 2001? These naive bloggers and right-wing media pundits are Pakistan's biggest enemies. Here, India was jumping up to get noticed and provide all support for any American plans in the region (you can't blame India though); here, the entire US population, congress, the military is in rage and are looking for bloody revenge. And, here, Musharraf says: 'Sorry, you need to provide some concrete evidence against the Talibans before we can help you. You know, you are innocent until proven guilty, according to your own law'. Guess what would have happened to Pakistan? Razed to the ground in a frenzy of US led forces attacking with NATO and Indians directly involved and perhaps even Russia providing some support.
And, no, this Tipu-Sultan like 'One day in a lion's life' kind of emotions are not good in these scenarios where millions of Pakistanis would have been killed or suffered hugely.

Coming back to the topic: All power to Musharraf! He was never a 'crook'. He made many mistakes. Biggest was to rely on the rejected elements of Pakistani society like the Chaudris of Gujarat to dominate politics. But if he can yank away Punjab from the clutches of the Sharif brothers then good.

PS. Musharraf will be a big failure in politics unless the military tries another 'democratic' setup by cobbling Mush's forces with the turn-coats from other parties. And I doubt Mush can physically survive for very long.

 

[blain2]

The only bad things, besides stripping away freedom from the people in 2007, was being America's petdog. If he grows some backbone, he'll make one hell of a leader.

Easier said than done. When our qaum realizes economic emancipation then only we can show backbone. Aside from that, every single one of our leaders, including Nawaz Sharif, BB, and AZ, has shown his/her proclivity towards Washington. The General alone is not guilty of it. This is pragmatism which is sorely needed to analyze the situation.

 

[Stumper]

PS. Musharraf will be a big failure in politics unless the military tries another 'democratic' setup by cobbling Mush's forces with the turn-coats from other parties.

Allow me to disagree. Personally, i found many of his decision bold and politically astute. It was he who could dream of a operation like Kargil. It was he who *almost* came close to definite Kashmir resolution. His policy matters on US was beyond his control --- but he did the best irrespective of sentiments of local audience.

He has shown he has the Brains, Guts and fore sightedness.

And I doubt Mush can physically survive for very long.

Sadly, i have to agree.

 

[pak-yes]

He didn't even made a single Power Plant in his 9 years and now people including me have to tolerate load shedding.He would be sitting comfortably in his London Palace while people of Pakistan burn in heat.

Seriously 1 hour Juice 1 hour Load shedding i am sick of it.

And If Indians like him so much replace MMS and make him your PM.Then i will ask how good was he?

 

[Stumper]

He didn't even made a single Power Plant in his 9 years and now people including me have to tolerate load shedding.

Correct me if im wrong, but he inherited the hugh fiscal and monetary debt faced by Pakistan -- when he took over, is'nt it?

He would be sitting comfortably in his London Palace while people of Pakistan burn in heat.

On contrary he does not want to misuse the Army provided residence. He is awaiting his own personal funded residence to be completed (so as not to misuse the official one for personal agenda)
Jang Group Online

And yes, unlike some people in our region, he does need to toil to earn his livelyhood legal way (has NOT stashed away illegal money that would have ensured his great-great-grandkids do not have to work a single day)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/155068

And If Indians like him so much replace MMS and make him your PM.Then i will ask how good was he?

Even if i were to bother replying to that point, tell me -- Does it matter any way at all?
But yet ----- We like him for participating in two wars against us , we like him for commanding your SSG to capture two of our bases in Siachin in 1987 .... and dear oh dear .. who amongst us Indians will ever forget his pet baby -- Kargil. Yes, we love him ..no doubt.

 

[zagahaga]

from my point of view..... musharaff should come back ..... i looking at pakistan now and back in the musharaff regime this kind of *HIT dident happen if happend to an extent.... pakistan ke log gutee ke yaar hai.. hum siruf dande ke yaar hai... so i think if pakistan jutee ke nook per ho every thang will be alright

 

[forcetrip]

Correct. I mean what kind of choices Musharraf had on 12th Sept. 2001? These naive bloggers and right-wing media pundits are Pakistan's biggest enemies. Here, India was jumping up to get noticed and provide all support for any American plans in the region (you can't blame India though); here, the entire US population, congress, the military is in rage and are looking for bloody revenge. And, here, Musharraf says: 'Sorry, you need to provide some concrete evidence against the Talibans before we can help you. You know, you are innocent until proven guilty, according to your own law'. Guess what would have happened to Pakistan? Razed to the ground in a frenzy of US led forces attacking with NATO and Indians directly involved and perhaps even Russia providing some support.
And, no, this Tipu-Sultan like 'One day in a lion's life' kind of emotions are not good in these scenarios where millions of Pakistanis would have been killed or suffered hugely.

Coming back to the topic: All power to Musharraf! He was never a 'crook'. He made many mistakes. Biggest was to rely on the rejected elements of Pakistani society like the Chaudris of Gujarat to dominate politics. But if he can yank away Punjab from the clutches of the Sharif brothers then good.

PS. Musharraf will be a big failure in politics unless the military tries another 'democratic' setup by cobbling Mush's forces with the turn-coats from other parties. And I doubt Mush can physically survive for very long.

You just wrote my thoughts and feelings in a huge paragraph .. could you be kind as to shut up other people who stay in other coutries and have no way of knowing how to buy a kilo of milk in this country and keep posting facts and figures about what democracy is?? .. pleasee!!!

 

[Meengla]

At @Stumper and @Forcetrip,
Yes, the choices Musharraf made post 9/11 in foreign policy affairs were correct. And, yes, he was 'bold' when it came to Kashmir. But he was also 'bold' because only the military of Pakistan can make real 'concessions' when it came to Kashmir. Musharraf correctly saw the peace-dividends of Kashmir resolution.
However, it is a different matter that Musharraf's domestic and his economic policies were not quite as good for Pakistan. Musharraf's supporters crow about the economic gains made. Yes, there were gains but so were there GLOBALLY. Actually, Pakistan's economy started a slide because of the instability following the sacking of the CJP Pakistan in March 2007; terrorism too picked up considerably in 2007. The slide had definitely started. Musharraf kept denying the presence of any militants post 9/11 for years inside Pakistan while, secretly, the militants were consolidating their positions--the fruits of that consolidation came to forth in full force starting sometime in 2007. Heck, the situation got so bad even Musharraf was made to become the 'bunker President'.
On the domestic front, like a typical insecure dictator, he bribed, threatened politicians from other parties and formed the PMLQ. He even imported a Prime Minister!! Now, in a democracy the PM is supposed to represent the people. But this guy came and went away without a trace. Was that not a joke on the people of Pakistan?

Finally, the MOST important point I make: Pakistan is not a bank. Pakistan is not a nursery of foreign policy affairs. Pakistan is a country with tens of millions of people with great diversity. Even if you provide bread, clothes, and housing, people will still want more. They may want their 'identity' (as the relatively well-fed Hazara people are asking for now). They may want security. They may want to have access to information.... ONLY a democratic country can have allow the various pressure points to reach to the top and mixed into the over-all equation. A dictatorship is a silo. It is a form of intellectual inbreeding because it excludes too much. And a military dictatorship in a country like Pakistan is the absolute worst because the dictator can NEVER be held accountable. The military dictator can callously call the killing of people like Akbar Bugti as 'good'--because the dictator has tunnel-vision.

And so, despite whatever good Ayub Khan did in economic front, his rule alienated the E. Pakistan. Despite whatever 6% growth under Zia, the rural Sindh has not forgiven Punjab. And despite Musharraf's economic gain, the Baluchs are not going to forgive or forget him.

Again, Pakistan is not a bank where all things are evaluated in monetary term. It is far more than that. Something like a living entity with multiple brains and multiple hearts. Too big for a one-man show.

 

[forcetrip]

If people continue to see gains and losses as you have described then I would say that people are going to wake up not knowing how deep the rabbit hole goes. The gutter we are in is because we are being run by multiple people who don give a damn about this country than one person. I choose one person who makes huge mistakes than a bunch load of people making small mistakes in each and every sector. I understand your reasons and I am not in disagreement with you about Musharaffs domestic policies after 2006. I hope he comes back faces this sold out judiciary and we can go from there. No sense in discussing what might happen.