Pakistan's Mirage 2000 Saga

[Muradk]

can some body make it confrim! i mean the dam news?

Batman, MK, I just talked with someone very senior in PAF a few min ago, And it is confirmed that the news of the Mirage is wrong, he said that Mirage is not even on the board( Agenda ) that is all I can say at this time.
I would request the mods to close this thread.
Thank you
MK

 

[princefaisal]

We desperately need latest avionics system, radar & better engine for JF-17 and only France can provide it. Therefore France is taking advantage of this situation and is imposing conditions of purchasing Mirage 2000 or something else also.

 

[batmannow]

Batman, MK, I just talked with someone very senior in PAF a few min ago, And it is confirmed that the news of the Mirage is wrong, he said that Mirage is not even on the board( Agenda ) that is all I can say at this time.
I would request the mods to close this thread.
Thank you
MK

Muradk;dear sir,
thanks!
you did some good work, this thread is full of posts, which were based on some wrong news

 

[mean_bird]

Batman, MK, I just talked with someone very senior in PAF a few min ago, And it is confirmed that the news of the Mirage is wrong, he said that Mirage is not even on the board( Agenda ) that is all I can say at this time.
I would request the mods to close this thread.
Thank you
MK

Cool!

I had begun to think 10% was still wanting his share from the failed 90s deal. M2K no doubt are good, but there are better ways to spend the money PAF ( and hence GoP) has like in investing in JF-17s and FC-20s.


Could you, or anyone else, confirm then what the news (if any) was about? Since multiple people said there was some news about France and Mirages.

thanks for the confirmation

 

[Arsalan]

thats fine,, i mean the news, if its not happening i am happy with it!!

i have been criticizing the deal throughout the thread, but a waste of energy as it was never happening. however i am happy

 

[PAFAce]

That's ok, the deal not going through. My only worry is, what will happen to the great infrastructure and expertise we have developed for Mirages? All that will have to converted/wasted. Maybe they'll turn them into JF-17 Rebuild Factories or something.

 

[Muradk]

I am sure friends that most of you are worried that PAF might not be capable of standing against IAF, I asure you that there are a lot of things which our civilians don't know or in simple words they don't want you to know.
In the Cold war both countries used to show off there weapons to scare or tell the other side ( SEE WE HAVE THEM SO DON"T SCREW WITH US ). Now the tactic, strategy the whole Art of war has chanced 2 words Deceptions and denial are now the weapons which are very effective we don't want to show what we have and what it is capable off. Yes we do have a big problem CASH but still we somehow manage to get it and don't ask how. So stop worrying we are strong.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

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do you have brain? you have countries like South Africa and Italy ready to provide avionics system and radar system who does not want billion dollar business in this bad economic.

from the looks of your post, you shouldnt be talking.
Tell me if RSA or Italy can offer something league of MICA IR&ER, RC-400 possible engines, and Dassault world known avionics?

 

[hj786]

That's ok, the deal not going through. My only worry is, what will happen to the great infrastructure and expertise we have developed for Mirages? All that will have to converted/wasted. Maybe they'll turn them into JF-17 Rebuild Factories or something.

To be honest, Mirage is such an old platform now that the infrastructure for it has to be binned at some point - it first flew in 1955! At least their remaining airframe life will be used up training pilots for aerial refuelling and helping out the new jets with day/night strike and maritime strike missions. For sure the experience of maintaining and rebuilding Mirage has been great for PAF, it was the stepping stone to building JF I think.

Read this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_3#Mirage_3NG

Mirage 3NG

Following the development of the Mirage 50, Dassault had experimented with yet another derivative of the original Mirage series, named the Mirage 3NG (Nouvelle Génération, next generation). Like the Milan and Mirage 50, the 3NG was powered by the Atar 9K-50 engine. The prototype, a conversion of a Mirage IIIR, flew in December 1982.

The 3NG had a modified delta wing with leading-edge root extensions, plus a pair of fixed canards fitted above and behind the air intakes. The canards provided a degree of turbulent airflow over the wing to make the aircraft more unstable and so more maneuverable.

Avionics were completely modernized, leveraging off the development effort for the next-generation Mirage 2000 fighter. The Mirage 3NG used a fly-by-wire system to allow control over the aircraft's instabilities, and featured an advanced nav/attack system; new multimode radar; and a laser rangefinder system. The uprated engine and aerodynamics gave the Mirage 3NG impressive performance. The type never went into production, but to an extent the 3NG was a demonstrator for various technologies that could be and were featured in upgrades to existing Mirage IIIs and Mirage Vs.

Enhancements derived from the 3NG were incorporated into Brazilian Mirage IIIEs following 1989, as well as into four ex-Armée de l'Air Mirage IIIEs that were transferred to Brazil in 1988. In 1989 Dassault offered a similar upgrade refit of ex-AdA Mirage IIIEs under the designation Mirage IIIEX, featuring canards, a fixed in-flight refueling probe, a longer nose, new avionics, and other refinements.

Dayum. Modified with canards, FBW. Why didn't PAF do this upgrade? With a turbofan engine it would basically become a proper 4th gen fighter similar to M2k.

 

[Super Falcon]

i dont think so paf is nogtiating with french on Mirages may be you provide us with cradible source thanx

 

[maximus]

We desperately need latest avionics system, radar & better engine for JF-17 and only France can provide it. Therefore France is taking advantage of this situation and is imposing conditions of purchasing Mirage 2000 or something else also.

PAF is more than happy with the KLJ-7 radar. In fact, the specs and capabilities have completely surprised PAF. PAF has claimed that the KLJ-7 is even much better than their current F-16 APGs. China is already working on an even better AESA radar which will most likely be integrated in the newer batches. It's near completion. Also, China is almost finished with the WS-13 engine which has much higher thrust. French MICA missiles will be purchased together with a radar. I don't think PAF needs a French engine when China can provide it.

 

[Tempest II]

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do you have brain? you have countries like South Africa and Italy ready to provide avionics system and radar system who does not want billion dollar business in this bad economic.

South Africa makes no airborne radars. When they upgraded their Mirages to Cheetahs they had to import radars fron Israel. When they needed a BVR missile, Israel had to develop it for them, i.e. Darter = Derby with a range of 40km which they are trying to improve now. That is nowhere better than the SD-10/PL-12 derived from R-77 with the same or improved technology.

Also remember, the PAF did not just go and pick the KLJ-7, they tested it against everything else that was on offer AND THE KLJ-7 CAME ON TOP! PAF did not go for the cheapest of the lot but the best.

 

[princefaisal]

If we accepted Chinese avionics system & radar in JF-17, then we should stick with it and wait for more updates in the shape of AESA radar. But if China has any objections, then we can procure another European radar for JF-17 for export purposes.

For BVR, we should join hands with South Africa and Brazil for Darter series missiles. Similarly we should also get Mica bvr missile in parallel with AIM-120C5. Until the induction of Mica, darter and AIM-120, we should concentrate on procuring SD-10 as this is readily available.

 

[batmannow]

I am sure friends that most of you are worried that PAF might not be capable of standing to IAF, I asure you that there are a lot of things which our civilians don't know or in simple words they don't want you to know.
In the Cold war both countries used to show off there weapons to scare or tell the other side ( SEE WE HAVE THEM DO DON"T SCREW WITH US ). Now the tactic, strategy the whole Art of war has chanced 2 words Deceptions and denial are now the weapons which are very effective we don't want to show what we have and what it is capable off. Yes we do have a big problem CASH but still we somehow manage to get it and don't ask how. So stop worrying we are strong.

hourable Muradk; sir
you deserved my SALUTE!

 

[sky17]

its a not a confirmed news.i m regular viewer of geo and did not watch any news of such kind on geo or any newspaper. moreover i think pakistan may not be interested in mirage 2000 after getting j 10s.