Pakistan's Loss: A Disaster or a Blessing

[Bilal9]

We are growing at 5.2 % not 3 % .

Growth is forecast for 2017 at 5.2% (ADB).

https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/economy

However - I stand by what I've said before. A way must be found in Pakistan for a couple of things,

1. Mass Education for Women
2. Mass Employment for Women (in endeavors like garments or other professions)

Unless you accord women better choices than being barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen (figuratively speaking), then population will not come down. Regrettably only Pakistan is in that boat in the subcontinent - with very high population growth rates - that shows no signs of subsiding.

Bangladesh - by the way, has more girls than boys in school for the last decade or so because of govt. incentives.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

We have 10 Universities in QS top 250 Universities in Asia . How many does Bangladesh have ?Or Is that also because of the jute we took from you ?

Tell us how many primary and secondary school Pakistan have? What is the percentage of children studying in those school? We know very well,rather than doing grassroots development,Pakistanis are fond of bravado project like funding lavishly to few university rather than building thousands of primary and secondary school.Budget money,whatever left after filling the belly of generals goes to building shiny motorway in few cities for the benefit of urban elite.Forget about imbalance among the provinces,there are huge imbalance even within north Punjab and south Punjab,between Lahore and Rest of Punjab.This type of development which serves only elite while neglecting the rest is not suitable for us,may be it can work in Pakistan.
Lahore gets 58pc share in development budget
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140021-Lahore-gets-58pc-share-in-development-budget

 

[CHI RULES]

Wasn't that obvious even in pre-1971 period ? Pakistan is now a federal state although it is geographically contiguous.But in 1947-1971 period, Pakistan was a unitary state.Any demand by East Pakistani people for a federal structure was dismissed as a conspiracy to destroy Pakistan.They centralized all power to the central govt. for only one purpose,Exploiting East Pakistan as much as possible.East Pakistan was their milking cow.

I exactly mean that. However their was an international conspiracy of which obviously India was a part but Pak establishment was also fully involved.

But painful fact is despite misdeeds of few even now the actions between Pak and Bangla are not normalized.

No doubt 1971 was a tragic incident.. It was a total failure of Pakistan politician to actually analyse the situation.. and still we didn't learnt anything from it.. We just need to understand the Chanakaya policy of India..

I beg to differ that we have n't learned from it we learnt much but we lack planning. The conspiracy in Balochistan has been controlled up to much extent due to sincerity at Military top brass level and efficient decisions taken.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

I exactly mean that. However their was an international conspiracy of which obviously India was a part but Pak establishment was also fully involved.

But painful fact is despite misdeeds of few even now the actions between Pak and Bangla are not normalized.



I beg to differ that we have n't learned from it we learnt much but we lack planning. The conspiracy in Balochistan has been controlled up to much extent due to sincerity at Military top brass level and efficient decisions taken.

Agree bro.. I pretty much appreciate our military front.. But I too much doubt about politician
I can't see a single politician party who has that much vision to tackle India in international forum..

 

[CHI RULES]

Tell us how many primary and secondary school Pakistan have? What is the percentage of children studying in those school? We know very well,rather than doing grassroots development,Pakistanis are fond of bravado project like funding lavishly to few university rather than building thousands of primary and secondary school.Budget money,whatever left after filling the belly of generals goes to building shiny motorway in few cities for the benefit of urban elite.Forget about imbalance among the provinces,there are huge imbalance even within north Punjab and south Punjab,between Lahore and Rest of Punjab.This type of development which serves only elite while neglecting the rest is not suitable for us,may be it can work in Pakistan.
Lahore gets 58pc share in development budget
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140021-Lahore-gets-58pc-share-in-development-budget

Dear military can and shall prove to be a cash cow for Pakistan as now after CPEC and to counter not only India but a number of foreign powers the big military is justified. At least majority of Pak require to be free from foreign powers for which our forefathers have given their blood.

If u have a broad spectrum u can see that USA and Russia along with other developed countries are not only bearing their high level military expenses through defense production but their military is directly or indirectly the main source of their economic development. Pak is now following same path and in near future bally of majority of people shall be filled. U should open ur eyes about ur own country becoming dominion of India.

Agree bro.. I pretty much appreciate our military front.. But I too much doubt about politician
I can't see a single politician party who has that much vision to tackle India in international forum..

Un fortunately u are right and PML-N govt should have taken help from opposition in that area.

 

[Saiful Islam]

pakistan gdp is about 4.7 in 2014 about more then 5 in 2017 our economy is still better then yours ,more people are living in prosperity in pakistan then BD ,we have less people living in poverty then in BD (https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/poverty ) more people have cars in pakistan then bikes in BD, we have huge programs running to drag people out of poverty our Stock exchange is fastest growing stock in the world next trading route is going to be pakistan,
we have a huge army ,nuclear weapon,saved many countries (saudia arabia ,bosnia,jordan,) helped saudia arabia,syria,jordan,egypt in saudi israel war only country to shotdown russia's ,india's,israel jets we guard medina and mecca (if they are anything to you) we have defeated super power of that time soviet union and break it in to many countries
what have you done denying truth and believing in propaganda

If you want to mention Pakistan's achievements in a non categorized list then so can we and the same nature of achievements will appear.

 

[YeBeWarned]

It was a blessing but the process was just like a curse .. I wish Bangladesh get separated with peaceful resolution not the way it ended ..
but some members are trying to compare Pakistan and Bangladesh which is not right ..

Bangladesh might have higher GDP than Pakistan..
but lets see what Pakistan has achieved since 71.

-Pakistan has 10 times bigger hostile nation
-Pakistan has 7th Largest Army in the world
-Pakistan Gets Nuclear Weapons
-Pakistan fought the world Super Power in 80's (USSR)
-Pakistan is fighting a long insurgency
-Pakistan has Hostile Neighbors on three sides
-Pakistan Army has MIRV based Ballistic Missile and Submarine Launch CM
-Pakistan Air force has +/-1000 Air crafts
-Pakistan has hosted millions of Afghan Refugee's
-Pakistan has fought in Bosnia , Syria and Lebanon
-Pakistan is been directly hurt by CIA,Mossad , Mi6,RA&W with Proxies .

and many more which Bangladesh has never experience or have

 

[Safriz]

All those bickering about Finances also look at certain facts .
The largest dam and to this date the only hydal power project in Bangladesh the Kaptai dam was built by Ayub Khan during Union era when Bangladesh was part of Pakistan. To this date Bangladesh didn't build another such dam

Bangladesh atomic energy commission was created same time at Pakistan atomic energy commission and Bangladesh got full fledged nuclear laboratories for research including particle accelerator, during Union era.
After separation Pakistan went on to become nuclear power while Bangladesh shut down their nuclear program on Indian instructions.
Bangladesh paper and textile industry were created by investors from west Pakistan which remains the backbone of Bangladeshi economy to this date.
Banking system in Bangladesh was created by Habib family the owners of Habib bank and also current owners of Toyota Pakistan.
Ayub Khan launched cheap housing schemes in east Pakistan, something he never launched in west Pakistan. Even a Bengali cycle rickshaw driver could buy a home.

Also let's not forget the two of Pakistan air force's greatest pilots Saiful Azim and MM Alam were both Bengalis and to this date our national heroes.
Bengali fought with us against India in 1965 war and ever their women volunteered to go to front lines and fight. So never underestimate Bengali bravery or their will to fight for the right cause. But same as us they need sincere political leadership which same as us they don't get.

 

[Arefin007]

was it a disaster or a blessing?

blessing because punjabis got homeland to rule and bengalis got homeland no more interdependence on each other no more federal structure no more crying about one dominating the other. win-win situation for both

Allah swt has said in the Holy Quran that we have been made into nations and tribes so we may know each other.

so if nations and tribes are amalgated randomly what's the point of existence of nations, tribes. instead we have alliances.

only regret is that separation should have been peaceful. like czech republic and slovakia.

 

[Michael Corleone]

The old Pakistan was an artificial entity that had outlasted it's usefulness well before 1971.

The only tragic thing about the separation was that it was not peaceful.

While Pakistan is a tribal culture, BD is a unitary state where the state comes before anything else.

Current BD GDP/capita growth of 6% per annum when compared to 3% for Pakistan should tell everyone how much better off BD is without having Pakistan.

This guy knows what he is talking about. Can't disagree with this!

All those bickering about Finances also look at certain facts .
The largest dam and to this date the only hydal power project in Bangladesh the Kaptai dam was built by Ayub Khan during Union era when Bangladesh was part of Pakistan. To this date Bangladesh didn't build another such dam

Bangladesh atomic energy commission was created same time at Pakistan atomic energy commission and Bangladesh got full fledged nuclear laboratories for research including particle accelerator, during Union era.
After separation Pakistan went on to become nuclear power while Bangladesh shut down their nuclear program on Indian instructions.
Bangladesh paper and textile industry were created by investors from west Pakistan which remains the backbone of Bangladeshi economy to this date.
Banking system in Bangladesh was created by Habib family the owners of Habib bank and also current owners of Toyota Pakistan.
Ayub Khan launched cheap housing schemes in east Pakistan, something he never launched in west Pakistan. Even a Bengali cycle rickshaw driver could buy a home.

Also let's not forget the two of Pakistan air force's greatest pilots Saiful Azim and MM Alam were both Bengalis and to this date our national heroes.
Bengali fought with us against India in 1965 war and ever their women volunteered to go to front lines and fight. So never underestimate Bengali bravery or their will to fight for the right cause. But same as us they need sincere political leadership which same as us they don't get.

Only the part I would respect the decisions of MM ALAM and saiful Azam... even after the war when Alam wasn't grounded anymore because of his origin... he chose to stay Pakistani. And out of respect I would call him a Pakistani. While Azam chose to stay close to his origin and become a Bangladeshi and hence I would call him Bangladeshi... at the end of the day... we have equal amount of difference and similarities.

was it a disaster or a blessing?

blessing because punjabis got homeland to rule and bengalis got homeland no more interdependence on each other no more federal structure no more crying about one dominating the other. win-win situation for both

Allah swt has said in the Holy Quran that we have been made into nations and tribes so we may know each other.

so if nations and tribes are amalgated randomly what's the point of existence of nations, tribes. instead we have alliances.

only regret is that separation should have been peaceful. like czech republic and slovakia.

Meanwhile Bosnia and Herzegovina was a nasty one

 

[Arefin007]

Meanwhile Bosnia and Herzegovina was a nasty one

it was because serbs wanted to dominate because of their majority. croats bosnians didn't accept that so they eventually fell out.

orthodox serbs vs bosnian muslims and you got yourself a bloody battle

 

[Safriz]

This guy knows what he is talking about. Can't disagree with this!


Only the part I would respect the decisions of MM ALAM and saiful Azam... even after the war when Alam wasn't grounded anymore because of his origin... he chose to stay Pakistani. And out of respect I would call him a Pakistani. While Azam chose to stay close to his origin and become a Bangladeshi and hence I would call him Bangladeshi... at the end of the day... we have equal amount of difference and similarities.


Meanwhile Bosnia and Herzegovina was a nasty one

Pilots who are too experienced also become too precious to let them risk flying and are often removed from front line duties and sat in office as leaders. So the assumption that MM Alam was grounded due to his Bengali origin is again a hate mongering propaganda. Saiful Azim also didn't fly much after 1971 and was in office most of his time.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Pilots who are too experienced also become too precious to let them risk flying and are often removed from front line duties and sat in office as leaders. So the assumption that MM Alam was grounded due to his Bengali origin is again a hate mongering propaganda. Saiful Azim also didn't fly much after 1971 and was in office most of his time.

nah it happened after matiur rahman tried to run away with pakistans fighter trainer.... tbh i don't support matiur's action... pledging allegiance to a country then backstabbing it is treason...

you don't see the same happening with other bengali officers who either defected and pledged allegiance to the war effort or who stayed neutral during the war.

it was because serbs wanted to dominate because of their majority. croats bosnians didn't accept that so they eventually fell out.

orthodox serbs vs bosnian muslims and you got yourself a bloody battle

serbs were terrible... killed thousands of civillians all for power..

 

[ziaulislam]

The old Pakistan was an artificial entity that had outlasted it's usefulness well before 1971.

The only tragic thing about the separation was that it was not peaceful.

While Pakistan is a tribal culture, BD is a unitary state where the state comes before anything else.

Current BD GDP/capita growth of 6% per annum when compared to 3% for Pakistan should tell everyone how much better off BD is without having Pakistan.

well history states otherwise

1. at time of separation bengal potential and GDP was more than the west, yet Pakistan economy today is twice the size of Bangladesh, the unfortunate terrorism of recent few decades could be predicted, this caused destruction of our textile industry causing Bangladesh an other ASEAIN countries to rise
2. its total myth that Pakistan word has meaning for each letter, it simple means pure land for Muslims
3. the plan before 1946 Delhi meeting was two separate states compromising sindh, punjab and possible parts of kpk on the west and assam and bengal on the east, please read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_Cabinet_Mission_to_India
4. only later a unified state was announced because it was thought separate states will not survive indian aggressive polices(as evident today how Bangladesh gave up most of it water share & other resources after separation), its unfortunate that loose federation idea of 1940s was not fulfilled due to early death of most PML leaders
5. there was no myth of super army, no army in world can stand x10 opposition in wake of civil war, infact the moral was lost early on when army released that they are fighting for people who dont want them. fact is india can main objective was to be strong central dictating country in the region which was achieved with breaking up pakistan
6. loosing east pakistan was not a big loss economically for west Pakistan or bengal and it was only a loss for both in containing indian aggression in region, an equal loss politically
7. my personal onion is that east and west were separated for nothing but due to greed of two leaders who wanted to form a legacy and tyrant govt for them selves, which they succeeded, today we see misery of 0.3 billion people ruled by two corrupt families who were forged in 1971
8. unlike propaganda spread by Bengali people all previous constitution proposed equal rights for two units, this was cancelled in 1970s election, given Bangladesh had more population than west, this let mr rehman to form a govt in both units without gaining a single seating in west and refused to even let western parties in forming the new constitution

lastly i will add all Bangladeshi people are brain washed from the beginning about history which doesnt even make sense most of the time especially regarding causalities figures. a few months of civil war cant kill 1/3 of a population as claimed by bengalis

 

[Safriz]

nah it happened after matiur rahman tried to run away with pakistans fighter trainer.... tbh i don't support matiur's action... pledging allegiance to a country then backstabbing it is treason...

you don't see the same happening with other bengali officers who either defected and pledged allegiance to the war effort or who stayed neutral during the war.


serbs were terrible... killed thousands of civillians all for power..

Whatever happened after Rashid Minhas Martyrdom and Motiur treachery was a blanket action not aimed at MM Alam only but to all staff of PAF who had a certain risk attacked to them until they are cleared.
So your claim that MM Alam Was grounded just after Bangladeshi independence just because he was Bengali is proved wrong by yourself.
MM Alam got his due respect throughout his life regardless of his ethnicity.