Pakistan's French Subs: A Threat

[Adux]

IN is no small entity nor is it slouch Neo, When it comes to professionalism or results or even equipment, no other wing of Indian Armed Forces is even close them. They are that good. Their operational and firepower is capability is one of the best in the world. And it is only going to get better. PN with or without Nuke subs cant take on IN.

 

[BATMAN]

PN with or without Nuke subs cant take on IN.

Your post sounds that some how you believe that Pakistan has the ability to acheive what india failed to acheive with quadruple time, money and manpower.

 

[Adux]

You can keep on with their understanding of the undertone's. I dont care

 

[BATMAN]

You can keep on with their understanding of the undertone's. I dont care

I think the whole idea of you seeking information on this forum is that you care.

 

[Neo]

IN is no small entity nor is it slouch Neo, When it comes to professionalism or results or even equipment, no other wing of Indian Armed Forces is even close them. They are that good. Their operational and firepower is capability is one of the best in the world. And it is only going to get better. PN with or without Nuke subs cant take on IN.

I don't underestimate IN nor do I believe its a devine force, it can be countered by PN now and more so in future when we've completed the modernisation and expansion plan.
The idea is to deny IN supermacy in our territorial waters and to prevent blockade of our trading routes. PN isn't built around the doctrine to wipe out IN but its being equipped to counter it.

Like Sir Niaz said above the main battlefronts will be on land and not in the sea. I belive he's right. We have the nuclear option and thats the only credible deterrance there is, the battle will not be decided at sea but around the cities.

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan cannot build a nuclear sub because of the amount of research that would go into miniaturization of the nuclear reactor. Pakistan has not initiated reserach into it.

For always neutral: India did not get help on the miniaturization of the reactor for its ATV. They got help from Russia on the design of the sub.


Thirdly, with or without nuclear sub, PN cannot counter IN. Whilst you say Neo, that after the modernization and expansion of PN, it would be able to, you are forgetting , IN is modernizing (though it is already quite modern-relatively) as well and is expanding at a ferocious rate.

What you are unable to get is, in case of a war with PN, PN maybe able to take out some of IN ships, but considering the vast size of IN, it would sure as hell not make a dent. The IN would OTOH wipe out the PN, with only the subs remaining, and IN specialises in ASW as you very well know. They place prime emphasis on ASW.

IN is not IAF or IA, they are expanding and modernizing at a pace that cannot even be matched by the other two, which is sad because to modernize and expand a Navy, it take far more time than for AF or Army.

If you have read our Navy's new doctrine, their focus is on affecting the land and air battles through the sea. You have aircraft carriers , BrahMos AshM's and LACM's that would affect the land battle as well. Not to mention the fact that the Navy wants to put the BrahMos on the subs as well. And then comes the LPD's. There is a reason why IN is going the whole hog when it comes to this, wanting 3 Aircraft carriers, numerous LPD's and BrahMos , etc on subs. This is not to mention the DDG's that would be able to fire on land.

 

[Adux]

I don't underestimate IN nor do I believe its a devine force, it can be countered by PN now and more so in future when we've completed the modernisation and expansion plan.

IN is certainly not devine, that would be the USN, Empire of Britain Navy(long back) and the ertswhile Soviet Navy.

PN with current said modernization , cannot deny it supermacy.Heck IN considers the ONLY threat as 90-B's, Nothing else. You might have have, until 214 come online. But IN has Advanced Kilo's and Scorpene's the time they come online

The idea is to deny IN supermacy in our territorial waters and to prevent blockade of our trading routes. PN isn't built around the doctrine to wipe out IN but its being equipped to counter it.

Not at all possible

Like Sir Niaz said above the main battlefronts will be on land and not in the sea. I belive he's right. We have the nuclear option and thats the only credible deterrance there is, the battle will not be decided at sea but around the cities.

Things have changed, IN has changed. Yes, so does the Indian Armed Forces, if the ATV does come online with a Ballistic Agni 3, it will compleltly out of PN range, and ATV will be defended by quite lot of IN advanced ships. We are far close to ATV and Ballistic SLBM than PAkistan is at the current moment. so it is Advantage IN, and Nuclear option in the span of the next 3-4 years

 

[Neo]

Pakistan cannot build a nuclear sub because of the amount of research that would go into miniaturization of the nuclear reactor. Pakistan has not initiated reserach into it.

There's sooo much you don't know mate. For the sake of peace I'll let you believe you're right.

 

[Contrarian]

Fine let that be mate. But respond to my other statements as well.

 

[Neo]

Adu,

Just wait a little longer, 2008 will be the year of the Navy. New subs, frigates, corvettes, missileboats and even battleships will be ordered. The idea is to counter India in all three fronts, we can not and shall not compromise any of these.
Our armed forces are being reorganised to deny India supermacy and to become a regional power.
Our think tank is known to for its effictiveness, we only spend money on the best of best within our reach.

 

[Adux]

Pakistan might have started Nuke reactor miniturization with the help of China, I wouldnt suprised of that, but they is far behind IN, PN is cornerd. They have no room or space to move around

 

[Adux]

Agreed,
but IN is beyond your league, Impossible with amount money, toys available and training
but I will wait though, listen.
IN pacing its modernazation in a far more effective way than the PN. You are grossly underestimating the IN.
and IN is known for its good think-tanks.
Sea denial of the PN is absolute reality. Way too much power, resources, advanced tech with the Indian Navy more IMPortantly better training and operational effectiveness. Its a agreed notion by all the navy's of the world

 

[Neo]

Thirdly, with or without nuclear sub, PN cannot counter IN. Whilst you say Neo, that after the modernization and expansion of PN, it would be able to, you are forgetting , IN is modernizing (though it is already quite modern-relatively) as well and is expanding at a ferocious rate.

IN will not deploy all her ships in Arabia Sea to fight Pakistan, even at 50% you'll become vulnerable for retalliation from China on your eastern shores.

What you are unable to get is, in case of a war with PN, PN maybe able to take out some of IN ships, but considering the vast size of IN, it would sure as hell not make a dent. The IN would OTOH wipe out the PN, with only the subs remaining, and IN specialises in ASW as you very well know. They place prime emphasis on ASW.

ASW happens to be one of our specialities aswell, the Orions have the range and equippement to hold IN back.

IN is not IAF or IA, they are expanding and modernizing at a pace that cannot even be matched by the other two, which is sad because to modernize and expand a Navy, it take far more time than for AF or Army.

Again I donot underestimate IN's power, she will give us real hard time.

If you have read our Navy's new doctrine, their focus is on affecting the land and air battles through the sea. You have aircraft carriers , BrahMos AshM's and LACM's that would affect the land battle as well. Not to mention the fact that the Navy wants to put the BrahMos on the subs as well. And then comes the LPD's. There is a reason why IN is going the whole hog when it comes to this, wanting 3 Aircraft carriers, numerous LPD's and BrahMos , etc on subs. This is not to mention the DDG's that would be able to fire on land.

And our doctrine is based around quick retalliation and even first strike with accurate missiles.
All western naval bases are well in range of our conventional missiles, Babur LACM is feared within IN as you lack detection at this point.

Remember, any future full scale war will be decided within days, thats why we're both nuclear powers.
IN can not achieve the goals you described within days...

 

[Adux]

IN will not deploy all her ships in Arabia Sea to fight Pakistan, even at 50% you'll become vulnerable for retalliation from China on your eastern shores.

That is laughable and not expected out of you.
I think you know Oee's comment on the chinese...and history has proved it.

PS: If China does grow the balls, there are lot of Navy's in high seas; which wont we let it come close. Chinese Navy though modernizing very well and potent is still regarded below IN. IN doesnt even need 25% of its assets to obilterate PN.

ASW happens to be one of our specialities aswell, the Orions have the range and equippement to hold IN back.

True, but they have no protection. IN can shoot it down, even before it comes into range

Again I donot underestimate IN's power, she will give us real hard time.

PN will be history

And our doctrine is based around quick retalliation and even first strike with accurate missiles.
All western naval bases are well in range of our conventional missiles, Babur LACM is feared within IN as you lack detection at this point.

What are you doing World War with PN, again laughable
Read up on IN radar capacity, and when it comes to IA read their capabilities, along with the Green Pine

Remember, any future full scale war will be decided within days, thats why we're both nuclear powers.
IN can not achieve the goals you described within days...

Firepower, operational capability and strategic assets of IN, is not laughing matter.

 

[Neo]

That is laughable and not expected out of you.
I think you know Oee's comment on the chinese...and history has proved it.

PS: If China does grow the balls, there are lot of Navy's in high seas; which wont we let it come close. Chinese Navy though modernizing very well and potent is still regarded below IN. IN doesnt even need 25% of its assets to obilterate PN.

Keep laughing, I expect you too.
I never said the China would fight for us but still you cannot afford to weaken your position in Bay of Bengal or The Andaman sea, China is lurking around the corner, even OoE won't deny that.