Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[hj786]

F-16s would be the best Erieye escorts, especially armed with AMRAAMs and linked to the Erieye radar with Link-16. They can't be refuelled in the air by PAF, but the Block 52s with conformal fuel tanks will have better loitering time. Fitting them with aerial refuelling probes must be possible, F-18 has them. If not, FC-20/JF-17 will have to do.

FC-20/JF-17 would make ideal escorts for the ZDK-03. Refuelled in the air and data-linked to the Chinese radar, it will be as if the ZDK-03 itself is armed with SD-10!

 

[Zob]

intresting thought shebazi...but i have a question firstly do we need fighter escort in peace time...and secondly..if i am correct our AEW's will be patrolling areas near lahore and sialkot...from this location non of our base is very far!! so the idea of flying 400 km's away from base doesnot materlize. and finally currently which aircraft can be refulled with the refuller we are getting because it seems none of our aircraft is capable yet.

 

[Skywalker]

intresting thought shebazi...but i have a question firstly do we need fighter escort in peace time...and secondly..if i am correct our AEW's will be patrolling areas near lahore and sialkot...from this location non of our base is very far!! so the idea of flying 400 km's away from base doesnot materlize. and finally currently which aircraft can be refulled with the refuller we are getting because it seems none of our aircraft is capable yet.

Currently its miarage III, and around 40 have been upgraded with external refuelling system.

 

[MastanKhan]

F-16s would be the best Erieye escorts, especially armed with AMRAAMs and linked to the Erieye radar with Link-16. They can't be refuelled in the air by PAF, but the Block 52s with conformal fuel tanks will have better loitering time. Fitting them with aerial refuelling probes must be possible, F-18 has them. If not, FC-20/JF-17 will have to do.

FC-20/JF-17 would make ideal escorts for the ZDK-03. Refuelled in the air and data-linked to the Chinese radar, it will be as if the ZDK-03 itself is armed with SD-10!

Hi,

With 8---10 awacs by the year 2015 plus the refuellers---PAF will be operating at a different pleateu---then you have the P 3 C's for the navy as well----seems like the skies over the pakistani air space are going to be really really crowded---awacs---refuellers---fighter escorts---daily training missions----they will have their hands full and then some----.

I guess, we all know, that the PAF won't be the same entity after the next 5 years----we can talk a lot about how potent it is going to be, but till we see it as it would be, in person and in material at that time----the true strength and ability is only what our imagination can make out of it. God bless pakistan. God bless PAF.

Next thing, the number of crew members for the awacs----How many different teams would be ready for each awac----how many different teams for each refueller---24/7 fighter escort replacement teams----ground crews operating 24/7-----truly----the PAF is going to be a different airforce than what we have all known it to be.

 

[Zob]

i guess 3 airborne controllers per jet...and 3 AEW in the air at a time controlling three sector commands NORTH,CENTRAL AND SOUTH! now if we put 3 fighters as escorts per plane that becomes 9 planes + 3 AEW's a total of 12 planes over pak airspace at all times!! but i hope the integration of refueller and AEW's goes ahead and happens smoothly and quikcly!! because i guess currently like skywalker said only the mirages are capable of refuelling air to air and none of the AEW's have a data link to any fighter means it will take a long time for things to fall into place!

 

[raheelocelot]

REFUELERS: Not required until required. I mean, they dont have to be in air if we are not planning a deep strike. Mostly, we will keep to targets within reach without aerial refueling. Its just a potency that we can go for deep targets. Secondly, by aquiring more lethal and precise weapons, we reduce the weapon to target ratio thus reducing takeoff weights thus reducing the need of aerial refueling. Thirdly, JF-17 are soon going to be inducted. They have a very good fuel consumption which will enable them to loiter in air as escorts for longer durations thus reducing change cycles. So, refuelers may not be the escort requiring things. AEW, yes, they would require escorts cuz their requirement will be more during critical times.

 

[Zob]

Indian Air Force PHALCON AWACS to be Delivered by Jan-Feb 2009 | India Defence

well i came across this very worrying piece of information. can somebody please tell me how long before PAF get's its own AEW. if this is taken seriously means India maybe and i use the word maybe because i myself doubt it...is waiting to recieve these before it plans a "surgical strike"

 

[Neo]

First Phalcon arrived in Delhi three days ago and at this moment its doesn't pose a threat because it will take a lot of time and effort to integrate it into the IAF infrastructure.
The Erieye will be delivered in third quarter, later this year.

 

[Zob]

well still the Indians are ahead of us in terms of recieving the delivery system!! by the time their system is up and running we wil be conducting tests on ours!! it makes me uncomfrtable that for a few months the indians will be observing our airspace and everything in it!! and to show "military might" will jam our radars...i hope i am not the only one feeling uncomfortable!!

 

[IceCold]

First Phalcon arrived in Delhi three days ago and at this moment its doesn't pose a threat because it will take a lot of time and effort to integrate it into the IAF infrastructure.
The Erieye will be delivered in third quarter, later this year.

Neo how much time will it take PAF to integrate Erieye into their infrastructure. The reason i ask this is because IAF has got the phalcon and they may have started to work for its integration while we are still waiting for the delivery.

 

[shehbazi2001]

intresting thought shebazi...but i have a question firstly do we need fighter escort in peace time...and secondly..if i am correct our AEW's will be patrolling areas near lahore and sialkot...from this location non of our base is very far!! so the idea of flying 400 km's away from base doesnot materlize. and finally currently which aircraft can be refulled with the refuller we are getting because it seems none of our aircraft is capable yet.

Obviously in the Pak-India scenario, the tension periods are usually predictable and in the peace time the escort cover may be relaxed and AEW/EW/MPA aircrafts can depend on either CAP aircrafts or ADA. Even then all missions close to International border or Control Line should be escorted.

we have the coast-line and whole Ran of Katch area to watch which are far from PAF bases. Indians were able to penetrate into Pakistani territory and take away debris of Atlantique and Pakistan should not permit actions like that. There are several incidents reported in the press where Indian helicopters crossed into Pakistani airspace through Ran of Katch.

All this needs to be seen by AEW. In the Kashmir valley, we cant put ground radars everywhere because they would not be effective in mountains and even on the border with Afghanistan, we have mountainous terrain and thus the escorting requirements are not trivial.

 

[shehbazi2001]

REFUELERS: Not required until required. I mean, they dont have to be in air if we are not planning a deep strike. Mostly, we will keep to targets within reach without aerial refueling. Its just a potency that we can go for deep targets. Secondly, by aquiring more lethal and precise weapons, we reduce the weapon to target ratio thus reducing takeoff weights thus reducing the need of aerial refueling. Thirdly, JF-17 are soon going to be inducted. They have a very good fuel consumption which will enable them to loiter in air as escorts for longer durations thus reducing change cycles. So, refuelers may not be the escort requiring things. AEW, yes, they would require escorts cuz their requirement will be more during critical times.

AEW is also required for air defence purposes (interception). Ground radars have a limitation of horizon and can't detect low-level penetrations. It would be AEW that shall warn of any low-level penetration. It can be used to plug the gaps in radar coverage and also complement the ground-based radars.

 

[TOPGUN]

I just dont understand why the US wont sell us kc-135 tankers i think we should have made a deal with the US for some when we did the new f-16's deal !! & wats so funny is that when u look up kc-135 on wikipedia it states 4 US surplus stocks to be acquired i know one can change things on there add or delete!! anyone can do it.

 

[shehbazi2001]

First Phalcon arrived in Delhi three days ago and at this moment its doesn't pose a threat because it will take a lot of time and effort to integrate it into the IAF infrastructure.
The Erieye will be delivered in third quarter, later this year.

Neo once the Phalcon has arrived, it can pose immediate threat. Integration can take time for the establishment of datalink with fighters but it can guide the fighters towards the target through radio.

Even in 1971 war, a Soviet Tu-126 Moss AWACS came to India and was used against PAF in the East Pakistan. I am sure datalinks, although in use by superpowers, were not in use by Indian Air Force. That was yet another factor against the sole No.14 Squadron.

Tu-126 is mentioned in the book of Maj Gen Fazal Muqeem Khan on 1971 war "Pakistan's Crisis in Leadership" and through web too, we can find many links like this one (see combat record),

Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Tu-126 'Moss'

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

With the refuellers at hand---the training of PAF will go to a different pleateau. The PAF will be doing what the usaf pilots are doing---longer flight times---train train and train for long range strike missions---also to increase the flying endurance of a figter and bomber pilot---even though pakistan cannot afford to get an aircraft carrier---the air force will be wanting to strengthen its legs over the blue ocean---flying for an hour is not the same as flying for two three and four hours at the go on a consistant basis.

So when a PAF fighter pilot / bomber pilot as well is strapped down in his office chair----he / she would know that it is not an hour trip---it is a full shift at the office.

The pilot can take offwith maximum weapons load and minimum fuel load----the moment he gets airborne---he can quench his thirst.

ZOB----PAF will never be a defensive strike force---it never was-----the only thing that has kept is back were the sanctions---so to tell others not to be aggressive we say the we are defensive in nature---.

Just look the posture of the PAF fighter jock---look at his training---look at his demeanor----listen to the statements coming out of the current and ex fighter jocks on this board or the air force personale----do you really believe that these people are only doing homeland security detail---heck no----they are just palying a waiting game of catch up----in a five years time the itch is really really going to hurt----trust me----the indians will be talking to us in a differnt language at that time---it will be pakistan
talking about surgical strikes against the indian assets----you kn