Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[iLION12345_1]

Aoa, I respectfully disagree with your comments

1) the entire PAF hi end radar capability from ground 3d AESA radars , to naval 3d aesa radars on the new and old frigates, to army balloon, Ly80 anti aircraft Battrey & anti artillery radars are Chinese, why would we not buy more such platforms that integrate with all our arms !!!

2)all hi-end AESA radars on the PAF fleet are Chinese e.g jf-17 block 2 , block 3 with AeSA radars and soon to be inducted J-10C. If these are so terrible why are we not equipping them with Swedish radars? They may have maintenance issues but we are maintaining them like all of our equipment ! So this conjecture of not buying more is less about the technology and capability then some feelings people have about inferior Chinese EW and surveillance capability.

finally I believe that the PAF is waiting for the Chinese to mount larger surveillance goodies on Y-20 platform. I truly believe that the PAF will standardize on this platform over the next few years as there transport, refulers and AWaCS fleet.

k

Most of PNs high end surface assets and all of their Aerial assets are going to be Western/Turkish, So I don’t see what you mean. (Seal sultan, ATR-72, MILGEM, Jinnah, new helicopters…)
PAF and PA use a combination of western and Chinese radars. PAF uses western AD systems and their next one will likely be western too. PA might however go for Chinese AD this time.

JF-17 block 2 does not have AESA. JF-17 uses Pakistani data-link.

Y-20 is not offered for export. There is little to no indication that Pakistan will purchase it. There hasn’t even been any interest. It is more likely PAF will go for European, Russian or any other non-Chinese transport/tanker if need and options are there.

You overestimate the PAF and PNs desire to use and buy Chinese systems overall too. They have shown time And again that if the option is there, they will prefer non-Chinese systems to not be dependent on a single source. (unless the Chinese option is clearly and solely the best, which is not always the case). It is never good to put all your eggs in one basket as The forces have learned with their previous dealings with the USA.

 

[Zarvan]

On paper ZDK-03s may appear better platform than Erieyes, but in actuality Erieyes are more advance and reliable than ZDK-03s. Swift Retort has also stamped the Erieyes operational capabilities. There are certain limitations of ZDK-03 regarding communication (with non Chinese assets?) and information gathering (its more prone to EW, share less precise data?). Therefore, It's safe to assume that PAF will standardize its entire AEWCS fleet with Erieyes for covering all three primary sectors (North, Center, South).

If that happens in future, (theoretically speaking), ZDK-03s may be pushed to Navy (as part of Naval Aviation). Meaning, an improved ZDK-03 fleet could be employed specifically for Maritime operations. As Navy is increasing in size, it's also improving its physical presence farther South of its AORs. If there will be more warships and subs, then there will also be bigger and better naval aviation. Hence, ZDK-03s can find their role for enhanced coverage of Pakistan Maritime Domain.
They will be different from Sea Sultans as (1) they will primarily cover the aerial operations, (2) will serve as communication nodes for establishing network centricity, (3) will increase the envelop of Pakistan airborne area denial prowess, (4) and act as Airborne command & control systems for coverage of coastal, aerial, sea surface and submerged assets.

*Year ago, there was a proposal for customizing a pair of ZDK-03s with refuelling tanks. Meaning, ZDK-03s will be able to act as supplementary aerial refuelrs. It will be interesting to see in what capacity that proposal will materialize? (provided it has not been rejected already)

Well if ZDK 03 have limitations what are the chances we may opt for more SAAB Erieyes or even better if go for for SAAB Global eye ?

@Blacklight

SAAB Global Eye

 

[Tipu7]

Aoa, I respectfully disagree with your comments

1) the entire PAF hi end radar capability from ground 3d AESA radars , to naval 3d aesa radars on the new and old frigates, to army balloon, Ly80 anti aircraft Battrey & anti artillery radars are Chinese, why would we not buy more such platforms that integrate with all our arms !!!

2)all hi-end AESA radars on the PAF fleet are Chinese e.g jf-17 block 2 , block 3 with AeSA radars and soon to be inducted J-10C. If these are so terrible why are we not equipping them with Swedish radars? They may have maintenance issues but we are maintaining them like all of our equipment ! So this conjecture of not buying more is less about the technology and capability then some feelings people have about inferior Chinese EW and surveillance capability.

finally I believe that the PAF is waiting for the Chinese to mount larger surveillance goodies on Y-20 platform. I truly believe that the PAF will standardize on this platform over the next few years as there transport, refulers and AWaCS fleet.

k

Wa Alaikum aslam.

We have numerous radars of Chinese origin in our arsenal due to mixed reasons. Primary being, they were affordable and available. In several cases, we have marginally compromised over net capability wrt to our economic capacity.
In majority of cases, we have tried to procure radars of Western origin but failed due to many reasons. Therefore, Chinese systems were procured. Many of them are meeting satisfactory benchmarks, but few of them are not as good as is assumed in open source discussions. Roughly, same is case with Russian systems which are found almost always one step behind from top of line equipment of American or European origin.

As per Y20 (B version to be more specific), PAF eyes them as strategic lifters (depends how reliable WS20 proves itself). But There is no plan of using Y-20 based AWACS system.

Well if ZDK 03 have limitations what are the chances we may opt for more SAAB Erieyes or even better if go for for SAAB Global eye ?

@Blacklight

View attachment 766703

SAAB Global Eye

Considering the capacity of our adversary, our requirements and our limitations, Erieye mounted on Saab 2000 aircrafts as AEWCS is the best solution for us.

 

[The Eagle]

Speaking of central command and eye above all assets, let's just say that we will be having a flying Castle above all the assets. The level, doctrine and operational capability especially in regard to EW has gone up by many levels for Pakistan armed Forces. We might see a pattern similar to top notch military.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Wa Alaikum aslam.

We have numerous radars of Chinese origin in our arsenal due to mixed reasons. Primary being, they were affordable and available. In several cases, we have marginally compromised over net capability wrt to our economic capacity.
In majority of cases, we have tried to procure radars of Western origin but failed due to many reasons. Therefore, Chinese systems were procured. Many of them are meeting satisfactory benchmarks, but few of them are not as good as is assumed in open source discussions. Roughly, same is case with Russian systems which are found almost always one step behind from top of line equipment of American or European origin.

As per Y20 (B version to be more specific), PAF eyes them as strategic lifters (depends how reliable WS20 proves itself). But There is no plan of using Y-20 based AWACS system.


Considering the capacity of our adversary, our requirements and our limitations, Erieye mounted on Saab 2000 aircrafts as AEWCS is the best solution for us.

thank you for your insight but I believe the reason for not procuring further Chinese AWACS assets is the wait for a larger more aggressive platform based on y-20, I also see them as refuelers. The reason for this are as follows:

we need to get rid of our age ing c-130s

eireye is sanction prone

the Chinese have not decided on a large platform like the ec-3 or a-50 hence we have decided not to purchase more interim systems

k

 

[ghazi52]

DGPR (AIR FORCE)

@DGPR_PAF
·
9h

No 4 Sqn (Karakoram Eagles) was established on 15th August 1958. It has a rich history as the vanguard of Special Ops during Peace and War. The Squadron, equipped with Sea Sentinels and HD-19, performed extensive S&R and Maritime Reconnaissance during war of 1965.

 

[ghazi52]

Beyond the Horizon!

 

[khanasifm]

 

[Tally ho]

Ofcourse, there's no need to ask for that. As we have talked alot, that Pakistan has already signed a deal with Sweden to acquire Eireye system. Incase some how, if that deal doesnt go through then we have China to provide AWACS system.

I would like to go for more details on this issue later......

It was the AWACs rhat ensured a flawless accomplishment of Mission in Swift retort

Not entirely true Bull.
PAF evaluated the E-2C Hawkeye and even a B-737 based AWACS but opted to buy the Erieye for political reasons.
Bush is not going to stay forever in Washington.

E2C was not fit for our environment. It was bsicalky designed for sea surveillance. We were intetested in isurveiilance over rufged terrain which the US wouldnt agree

 

[Trailer23]

...or even better if go for for SAAB Global eye ?

The UAEAF just recently placed an order for 02 more SAAB GlobalEye's worth US $1 Billion.

You want to try that again?

Maybe something more in the range of our budget, or is this also possible like everything else in the PAF Doctrine?

 

[ghazi52]

Trying to be Stealthy, Han?

 

[khanasifm]

Basically it can replace da-20 as well and perhaps why paf expanded and added another sqn to cover the whole pak with erieye covering north and central commands and Chinese awacs covering south

lastly it has now GMTI so provide early warning for army

article in Air Force monthly indicated it’s ground surveillance was suppressed initially due to ground forces requesting in Greek case eventually looks like now it there

 

[Windjammer]

''Angels'' in the air.

 

[Akh1112]

Well if ZDK 03 have limitations what are the chances we may opt for more SAAB Erieyes or even better if go for for SAAB Global eye ?

@Blacklight

View attachment 766703

SAAB Global Eye

PAF has 9 Erieyes (+1 written off?)

 

[Moon]

Don't know if this is the right place, but can standoff munitions like the REK, GB-6 etc..
Be detected by AEW&Cs? Or radars in general?
What about smaller ones like SDB or the SAAW?