Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[MastanKhan]

It is actually cheaper to make things in Pakistan. Because labor and ALMOST everything else is going to be a lot cheaper to source locally than say in a 1st world country. Moreover, we save foreign exchange reserves on spare parts deals we would have to sign with foreign suppliers. Then there are savings we would be making due to bypassing any charges for training and support for new systems from new suppliers.


Costs are further reduced if we succeed to find a partner. Also local industrial investment can also help us.

MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS:
We can become a defence EXPORTER to be reckoned with.

I think if Pakistans Weapons Industries realize their potential and make exports their goal. Then they very well cam become a force to be reckoned with.

Hi,

Son---just because a person has a tongue in their mouth---does not mean that it needs to be wagged just like that---and I am saying that very respectfully---.

What kind of schooling makes young posters utter these stupid and outrageous comments?

There is a difference between fixing an oil leak and remanufacturing the body after an armed attack to be road worthy again.

Do you think the guys over at PAC where just tightening screws???

@MastanKhan @Khafee @Falcon26 think before you up-vote some retarded comment.

Hi,

My Buddy Mohsin Ikram just re-furbished Mohtarimah Fatima Jinnahs Cadillac and mercedes---and they were in worst condition that the awac that got buil dup---.

But Mohsin Ikran is not a manufacturer of automobiles---capisce and he would never be one.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Mechanic don't only fix oil leaks they also do body work after car accident.

Do you think they were designing the whole plane or making it's engines or other systems from scratch?

Was no car accident, those planes where written off by the OG manufacturer.

PAC doesn't build the engines of any of they aircraft they build.

Not even Sweden builds the engines for the Saab 2000.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Please do not let your personal grievances lower the quality of this thread. And stay on topic.

Hi,

Son---just because a person has a tongue in their mouth---does not mean that it needs to be wagged just like that---and I am saying that very respectfully---.

What kind of schooling makes young posters utter these stupid and outrageous comments?



Hi,

My Buddy Mohsin Ikram just re-furbished Mohtarimah Fatima Jinnahs Cadillac and mercedes---and they were in worst condition that the awac that got buil dup---.

But Mohsin Ikran is not a manufacturer of automobiles---capisce and he would never be one.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What are you arguing about? I made a point that having capability to repair a piece of equipment does not equal capability to manufacture the same or a similar thing. If you can't comprehend that, then no one can help you.
I am done with you.

Was no car accident, those planes where written off by the OG manufacturer.

PAC doesn't build the engines of any of they aircraft they build.

Not even Sweden builds the engines for the Saab 2000.

 

[Hassan Guy]

What are you arguing about? I made a point that having capability to repair a piece of equipment does not equal capability to manufacture the same or a similar thing. If you can't comprehend that, then no one can help you.

That doesn't mean that PAC is not capable of producing a regional aircraft. A base is established.
PAC first did rebuild and overhaul of fighter jets and then moved to production.

I am done with you.

Dude you can disappear tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

 

[araz]

That doesn't mean that PAC is not capable of producing a regional aircraft. A base is established.
PAC first did rebuild and overhaul of fighter jets and then moved to production.

Dude you can disappear tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

PAF does not want to manufacture planes which have such low numerical requirement. No economy of scale in that. However the task achieved is still a proud moment for Kamra as otherwise these planes would have been write offs.
You might want to edit the last part of your post. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
A

 

[Tank131]

Yet PAC and PAF is saying over and over that they have the requisite know how and mean in place. JF-17, the recent revival SAAB 2k is witness. Do u knw something that PAC and PAF dont???

PAC appears to have vast experience in the things u have mentioned above apart from only engines.

Pakistani Defence industry is able to become a significant player in the market especially in developing and semi-developed countries.

I think PAC should aim to become a defence vendor. What say you on this point my friend @Bilal Khan (Quwa).

I would love if PAC became a defense vendor but they have little to sell. Eventually this could change. And please, tell me what aircraft did PAC design? Which wind tunnel did they test it in? Which method did they use to certify it? Which avionics do they manufacture (there are actually some like HUDs and mission computers ect, but not many and all the radars were built under license). Pakistan has limited experience designing any aircraft. The ground work is being laid so that the capability will be developed in the next 10-20years, but its not there yet.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Agreed. Future of PAC should be to become a vendor

I would love if PAC became a defense vendor but they have little to sell. Eventually this could change. And please, tell me what aircraft did PAC design? Which wind tunnel did they test it in? Which method did they use to certify it? Which avionics do they manufacture (there are actually some like HUDs and mission computers ect, but not many and all the radars were built under license). Pakistan has limited experience designing any aircraft. The ground work is being laid so that the capability will be developed in the next 10-20years, but its not there yet.

 

[araz]

I would love if PAC became a defense vendor but they have little to sell. Eventually this could change. And please, tell me what aircraft did PAC design? Which wind tunnel did they test it in? Which method did they use to certify it? Which avionics do they manufacture (there are actually some like HUDs and mission computers ect, but not many and all the radars were built under license). Pakistan has limited experience designing any aircraft. The ground work is being laid so that the capability will be developed in the next 10-20years, but its not there yet.

Apart from the Jingoism which is the forte of most posters, PAC has not yet reached that level where it can design and manufacture its own plane. What has been done and in my humble opinion quite succesfully is to piggy back its development on the work done by other providers. So we have modified Mashaq to Super Mashaq with quite a few changes. We were also very actively involved with the Chinese on the JFT and possibly our input may have gone into the J10B. So in short we are progressing through the stages and gettting our skill mix upto the mark to be able to design and manufacture a plane in due course.
However the economies of scale and the lack of resources demand that we enter joint ventures to be able to manufacture enough numbers to keep the unit cost down. It seems the Chinese are not interested in this suggestion (purely my own assessment so could be absolutely wrong) which is why PAC is extending its arm out to our Turkish brothers as they seem to be the most likely partners for a future venture. All such assumptions are based on educated guesses and should be read as such.
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Apart from the Jingoism which is the forte of most posters, PAC has not yet reached that level where it can design and manufacture its own plane. What has been done and in my humble opinion quite succesfully is to piggy back its development on the work done by other providers. So we have modified Mashaq to Super Mashaq with quite a few changes. We were also very actively involved with the Chinese on the JFT and possibly our input may have gone into the J10B. So in short we are progressing through the stages and gettting our skill mix upto the mark to be able to design and manufacture a plane in due course.
However the economies of scale and the lack of resources demand that we enter joint ventures to be able to manufacture enough numbers to keep the unit cost down. It seems the Chinese are not interested in this suggestion (purely my own assessment so could be absolutely wrong) which is why PAC is extending its arm out to our Turkish brothers as they seem to be the most likely partners for a future venture. All such assumptions are based on educated guesses and should be read as such.
A

The Chinese don't need production partners as they can leverage domestic scale to absorb R&D overheads in relatively short order. This makes China the perfect partner to develop costly technology, but unideal for sharing long-term manufacturing work. Note the term "share". China will let you license build, but for your own market, not theirs. From the language used in the Kamra Aviation City inauguration, the PAF wants PAC to take on workshare, i.e. supply all first, second and third party users of an aircraft with subassemblies. Turkey has offered that with the Anka and T129, and I imagine it's on the table too with the TFX.

Speaking of transport helicopters and airliners, it'd have to be done along those lines. I do think it's worth asking Saab to revive the Saab 2000 and have PAC involved in co-manufacturing the airframe, but it won't be feasible without Saab or another partner involved as well.

But basically, if you want to develop AESA TRMs, stealthy materials, engines, etc for proprietary (your own) usage without wanting to eat China's workshare pie, work with China. If you want to propel your own manufacturing exports, partner with Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, South Africa, etc. Seldom do small fry profit off the backs of giants, business partnerships are best done between peers with parity.

 

[CriticalThought]

So what's people's opinions about Pakistan acquiring the Russian A-100. Some notable qualities:

1. Its precursor, A-50U, has been tested in Syria against the best that USAF has to offer.
2. It has exceptional range.
3. But possibly the best feature is integration of jamming with long range radar on the same aircraft. In general, AEW&CS suffer from self-jamming. Russia seems to have solved this problem for these aircraft. Against the Rafale, A-100 will be a very potent platform. If we can pair it with an aircraft that can carry VLRAAMs, and shore up our AD with S-400, we would be a formidable foe for the Indian airforce. Thoughts?

 

[araz]

So what's people's opinions about Pakistan acquiring the Russian A-100. Some notable qualities:

1. Its precursor, A-50U, has been tested in Syria against the best that USAF has to offer.
2. It has exceptional range.
3. But possibly the best feature is integration of jamming with long range radar on the same aircraft. In general, AEW&CS suffer from self-jamming. Russia seems to have solved this problem for these aircraft. Against the Rafale, A-100 will be a very potent platform. If we can pair it with an aircraft that can carry VLRAAMs, and shore up our AD with S-400, we would be a formidable foe for the Indian airforce. Thoughts?

Not feasible nor required nor necessary. We have enough AWACs. Integrating a new platform into our system will bring more complications and I remain unsure about the Red Bear's willingness to part with the source codes.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

Not feasible nor required nor necessary. We have enough AWACs. Integrating a new platform into our system will bring more complications and I remain unsure about the Red Bear's willingness to part with the source codes.
A

The Red Bear's cooperation is something we can work on, but the potency of this system is absolutely needed to meet Rafale and... *ahem* more advanced threats.

 

[Tank131]

So what's people's opinions about Pakistan acquiring the Russian A-100. Some notable qualities:

1. Its precursor, A-50U, has been tested in Syria against the best that USAF has to offer.
2. It has exceptional range.
3. But possibly the best feature is integration of jamming with long range radar on the same aircraft. In general, AEW&CS suffer from self-jamming. Russia seems to have solved this problem for these aircraft. Against the Rafale, A-100 will be a very potent platform. If we can pair it with an aircraft that can carry VLRAAMs, and shore up our AD with S-400, we would be a formidable foe for the Indian airforce. Thoughts?

I dont think there is any indication that Russia would be willing to sell S-400. I think Pakistan's best hope for a long range SAM is HQ-9. Also, with Pakistan's current fleet of AWAC's and the 3 more ordered from SAAB, Pakistan will be up to 11 AWACs, far more than most others. Only the US, Russia, China, and Japan have more.

 

[Falcon26]

I dont think there is any indication that Russia would be willing to sell S-400. I think Pakistan's best hope for a long range SAM is HQ-9. Also, with Pakistan's current fleet of AWAC's and the 3 more ordered from SAAB, Pakistan will be up to 11 AWACs, far more than most others. Only the US, Russia, China, and Japan have more.

What’s the rational behind such a huge AWACS fleet? To compensate for the supposed Hawkeye for the Navy? If so, do these AWACS have maritime capability