Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Hyperion]

Pretty difficult seeing as journalists camped outside the base and accounted for every plane flying in to or out of the base after the attack to determine if any were destroyed.

Icarus, whatever the case. Why doesn't ISPR come up with clear proof to allay public apprehensions. We have been let-down far too often by our armed forces, therefore, we the people reserve the right for accounting of our national assets!

You being, where you are, why don't you "advise" the seniors to stop being so short sighted and have AHQ arrange a conference with press, after all, we are living in democratic times, aren't we?

Please spare me any righteous speech, I'm three generations forces brat!

 

[TaimiKhan]

Nukes being the biggest. Although the magnitude of both projects could be debated.

But the point still stands, how could it be difficult to hide a destroyed plane? And the news of it's destruction.

First of all, you had media guys posted out and they could have photographed wreck of any aircraft on the tarmac. Not an easy task to hide. Then you have people working inside the base, who could have taken photographs and leaked outside, which we see. You saw the leaked videos of the executions by supposedly PA soldiers, then this is a very small thing compared to those videos. And then you have retired people who could have said anything on media since they have contacts, and mostly you have people on these forums which also have links with people in the air force. I have not seen a single post from any reliable member on the net who has said that the news is true.

 

[Icarus]

Pretty fantastic statement that!

Journos can spot the serial number of a aircraft taking off or landing?

I wouldn't expect the journalists to be knowing alot. Remember, it was the media that first said that a IL-76 was damaged (the one being shown in the videos), while infact, the IL-76 was on the other side of the runway(North).

Anyways, lets leave it at this now. Don't want to make this thread into another mine,your,his thread.

Regards!

Remember that is was the same journos that later said that since the Il-76s had been spotted, it wasn't an Il-76 that was destroyed.

Icarus, whatever the case. Why doesn't ISPR come up with clear proof to allay public apprehensions. We have been let-down far too often by our armed forces, therefore, we the people reserve the right for accounting of our national assets!

In matters of national interest, the ISPR reserves the right to remain quiet about an issue. A lot goes on that the population knows nothing about and it is all for the greater interest of the nation.

You being, where you are, why don't you "advise" the seniors to stop being so short sighted and have AHQ arrange a conference with press, after all, we are living in democratic times, aren't we?

I am but a humble analyst, my senior's listen when I tell them how we van fight the TTP, not when I try to tell them how to clock better PR.

 

[Hyperion]

First of all, you had media guys posted out and they could have photographed wreck of any aircraft on the tarmac. Not an easy task to hide. Then you have people working inside the base, who could have taken photographs and leaked outside, which we see. You saw the leaked videos of the executions by supposedly PA soldiers, then this is a very small thing compared to those videos. And then you have retired people who could have said anything on media since they have contacts, and mostly you have people on these forums which also have links with people in the air force. I have not seen a single post from any reliable member on the net who has said that the news is true.

Taimi, now look at the other angle. You know very well about the "long arm" of our armed forces, if there were no truth to this news item, the reporter right now would be hung from his feet @attock. You know, what I mean!

I am but a humble analyst, my senior's listen when I tell them how we van fight the TTP, not when I try to tell them how to clock better PR.

LOL.... My humble COIN analyst, my friend, you killed me with "clock better PR"

 

[Bratva]

what kind of bigger things have been kept secret. Just give me a few examples.

Missile test failures, are they ever announced?

 

[Hyperion]

Missile test failures, are they ever announced?

There are no "failures" in science, data is collected from every test, if it didn't perform according to parameters, it's retested again. New science requires multiple tries, till you get it right. Remove the concept of failure from your mind, in anything related to "TESTS"

 

[Icarus]

Missile test failures, are they ever announced?

All public missile launch tests are performed in front of media personnel, no failure can go unreported. Failure during development phase does not warrant any reporting, thus your answer.

 

[Xestan]

Alright. Maybe some info. that I have will help.

There were two Erieyes at Minhas AB during the attack, I can be wrong but there were at least 2 present at that time. Both of them were parked in their hangers, no Erieye was parked outside, this is a illogical argument, if news channels' cameras can see IL-78MP parked in the open, and C-130 flying, taking off and landing, then why didn't any camera record the wreckage of the destroyed Erieye? Maybe, unless you wanna say that the wreckage was removed while the operation was going on and then it was sent to another galaxy through a space-door. lol Apologies for the sarcasm but people don't think before they come up with conspiracy theories.

The next day, media was invited inside the base. The very next day PAC was up and running again. Does this theory means that no one out of thousands of PAC employees, PAF personnel saw a destroyed aircraft? For God's sake people, stop believing Pakistani media, it's history of defence reporting is like Indian channels report about ISI. Irresponsible!

 

[Dazzler]

Again, 1 Erieye damaged in the front fuselage section (nose) and is being sent to Sweden, no other aircraft has been destroyed or damaged, not only some people are indulging in conspiracy theories and false reporting but spreading rumours whether unintentionally or on purpose. One thing is for sure, destruction of an AWACS plane could not have remain hidden from media which has gained a paparazzi momentum in the country! The reason why no picture has surfaced of a so called destroyed AWACS is because no AWACS is destroyed.

 

[SQ8]

i am talking about reality , not the ispr report

world know it ,
we are hiding facts from our people ....

How do you know your reality is correct, you must provide a certain amount of logic for it.

Nukes being the biggest. Although the magnitude of both projects could be debated.

But the point still stands, how could it be difficult to hide a destroyed plane? And the news of it's destruction.

Very.. what is being suggested is that the airplane was destroyed through a suicide attack.. which means that the aircraft would have had massive damage and debris.. No evidence of this is seen.
The aircraft that was damaged has been reported and is on its way for repairs.
Any further reports are just "sources" and hype until PROVEN otherwise.

Missile test failures, are they ever announced?

Because most of them arent done with untested parameters.
Ground tests on the engine, guidance.. etc.
Whatever test you see is shown to the media.
A missile test is not cheap... and costs run into hundreds of thousands of dollars per test.
The last failure that was NOT reported was of the Hatf system back in the 90's.

As for the first part, yes, 2 AWACS were at the airbase, on the ground. While a third, which was at the base by evening, was in the air. This was the first time that three AWACS had been at one place. The one in the air did not come back to Kamra.

Secondly, PAF has no IL-86.

Thirdly, as I have said before numerous times, you don't have to blow an aircraft to kingdom come and burn it to ashes in a volcano to destroy it. Everyone concurs that a RPG landed near the nose, so that is enough proof in itself. A airframe damage does not need smoke and fireworks. Remember that Shaheen Air aircraft that had a hard landing at Karachi. It was initially thought that the aircraft was finished because of damage to the wing spar and other parts in the wing root, but later Boeing officials came and repair works are going on. The place where media was standing to get pictures was right beside the village, towards the central part of the runway, while the AWACS hangar is located to the east of where the media was, apprx 1 km east. The media was not allowed to go in that area (partly due to the fact that the suicide bomber blew himself up in that area). If you are not following me, see Google Earth.

And no media was invited to the base. Everything you see is by ISPR and PAF photographers.

Lastly, what I am saying is after knowledge from a PAC official. And PAC is to the north of the Runway. The AWACS and Base Mess and fuel depot and incursion point is to the south of the runway (towards the canal). Apprx distance of 1.5km.

I believe you shall find satisfaction when that aircraft returns to service.
PAF Kamra is host to much more than just what you see on the news, there is paranoid secrecy surrounding the AWC and other sections for which the media will NEVER be given access for whatsover reason unless measures have been taken beforehand.

Again, 1 Erieye damaged in the front fuselage section (nose) and is being sent to Sweden, no other aircraft has been destroyed or damaged, not only some people are indulging in conspiracy theories and false reporting but spreading rumours whether unintentionally or on purpose. One thing is for sure, destruction of an AWACS plane could not have remain hidden from media which has gained a paparazzi momentum in the country! The reason why no picture has surfaced of a so called destroyed AWACS is because no AWACS is destroyed.

Its typical of Pakistani mentality to jump on conspiracy theories.. The floods, HARP, Kill Switch.. yada yada.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, media is not given access. There was a no written before the part you bolded as well. Point being? Some other member suggested that media was taken in the next day.

The boeing part you highlighted, want to clear it up that it was Karachi, not Kamra.

Media was not shown the entire base(nor was it during the JF-17 ceremonies).

and yes.. the reason I highlighted the Boeing part was that if a complete wheel collapse along with slat damage can be fixed.. So can a damaged radome.

 

[Arsalan]

Guys guys..
Media can be kept off the base or they can sit by the boundary wall counting planes day in day out.. i mean what else they have to do but to get something disturbing to our people "SAB SA PAHLAY"

Media can be kept off and uninformed, ISPR can be lieing but even with all that, there are SO many members here alone who have there personal contacts, relatives or friends who can provide with authentic information.
As per what i have been told from the base it support the ISPR statement so i agree to that.
As Taimi suggested, these things cannot be kepth hidden, people will come to know about it and they will share!!
In this case, please, there is nothing more bad then what we have already been informed about! dont try to search for something worst in this episode.
Thanks God we were saved from any major loss!

PLEASE!!! there is no need to speculate that three were destroyed or thirty!! its simply not true!!

 

[SQ8]

There was some fear that the spar and the wing root was damaged by the MLG.

Now, Oscar, you tell me yourself, if a RPG lands a meter or two in front of the nose, what are the chances of substantial damage to the airframe of the aircraft???

If it struck the ground.. the only damage would be high speed shrapnel.
Which while embedded itself into the aircraft.. would not substantially damage it beyond repair.
There was a fair bit of damage to the radome.. and some electronics were damaged. But nothing that cannot be repaired.

IT WOULD hve been damaged beyond repair had the RPG scored a direct hit and the shaped charge gone through.

 

[amardeep mishra]

@oscar,hi!
what is the density of the erieye's TRMM?i mean how many channels per board?
MERIL L SCHOLNIK's book and few other sources claim that there are 192 t/r modules,though what they might have meant was,192 TRMM with each TRMM having certain x,y,z channels,
for example in DRDO's patented TRMM,each TRMM has 8-channels(8 distinct t/r modules embedded on a single board)
thanks in advance

 

[blain2]

A few points. Why is there such an urgent need to prove/disprove that the Erieyes are safe or destroyed? Aside from speculations, there is nothing for or against in this argument that is concrete.

Secondly, contrary to the common public perception in Pakistan, NO, everything does not need to be disclosed to the public. The public does NOT have the right to know all of the details pertaining to national security. The media must not be allowed in sensitive locations because not only is it irresponsible, it also lacks the restraint needed in reporting matters of national security.

Lastly, why should the PAF disclose whether an Erieye has been lost or not? Why should the PAF offer this information to all and sundry? The ones who need to know, i.e. the hierarchy within the PAF, MoD and GoP will know and will have to address it.

What the PAF does need to do is to ensure that the security is as tight as possible. I am just amazed at this zeal that some members demonstrate to make all matters an open secret. This is not how things are done anywhere in the World. I know we are high on our newly found freedom of the media, but there are rules to play by here and the media needs to learn this, the public needs to respect it and understand that there are certain things that the state has responsibility over and if the government decides to hold back on this information, deeming disclosure could impact the national security, then we should accept it. These sort of things do not stay hidden for long. At an appropriate time, some validation of the supposed destruction or operational status of all three platforms will become available. Wait until then with sabr please! Why the sense of urgency and urge to disprove each other?