Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

[iioal malik]

i guess the reason is simple there is to much corruption in pakistan in every department u name it police politics army perhaps not that much in army but it exists 80%of the country money goes to amry but army is still useing 15 years old equipments.

 

[Arsalan]

Our only perceived enemy is India. Now that a conventional war with India appears unlikely; do we really need to spend in excess of a billion dollars on new submarines when these may never fire a single shot in anger?

IMO this may be a blessing in disguise. We are in the midst of social and economic crisis. Need of the hour is national introspection. Firstly, the deal being called off will not allow Mr. 10% to get his share in the commission. Secondly, I would rather see the money spent in improving infra structure in FATA and Swat areas and on education.

I am not advocating that we should abandon the idea altogether. Once our coffers are full, we can always buy submarines and naval ships. Do you really think that while we are asking for international aid for the IDP’s; we should go ahead and sign billion contract for U-214’s

sir this is very true but the bitter fact is that peace only comes with power in todays world!
youpointed toward FATA and Swat, perhaps like everone else you are also concerned with the situation there. sir we must try to realize that the insurgents there are using the name of taliban for there own good. they are all foreign (indian/russian) supported militants. the only way to stop this is to make our enemy realize that we have the power to defend our land and wont be an easy target for them.
unfortunatel our leaders are not moving in this direction, we have never pointed our finger to india after the terrorist sucuide attack that have become a daily routine activity in pakistan these days on other hand indian shout on top of there voices after any such incedient at there place.

i guess i am diverting from the topic so to conclude let me say that to get peace we must be able win and protect it and for this we need strong military muscels!!

regards!

 

[Screaming Skull]

Hi guys! I just found this interesting news article.

Submarine deal set to surface​

Thursday May 28, 2009

Greece is close to agreeing to a deal with Germany that could lead to the resolution of a dispute over a batch of faulty submarines, which has put a severe strain on relations between the two countries, it was revealed yesterday.

Vice Admiral Giorgos Karamalikis, the chief of the Hellenic Navy General Staff, said that the technical problems with the Type 214 diesel-electric submarine were being ironed out and Greece could soon be in a position to accept three of the four vessels that were ordered between 2001 and 2005.

The first submarine, dubbed Papanikolis, was developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Kiel, Germany, and there was an agreement to build the remaining three at the Hellenic Shipyards, west of Athens.

However, the Greek navy did not accept delivery of the submarine after discovering a number of technical faults, the most serious of which was excessive rolling in bad weather when the vessel surfaced.

The Germans insist that they have since rectified the problems, but Greece has refused to accept the first submarine, which has been docked in Kiel since 2006. The ship’s manufacturers have accused Greece of intentionally dragging out the problem so that they can renegotiate the price.

Now it seems that the two sides have come to a tentative agreement that will see the Greek navy accept three of the four submarines that have been ordered, but not the Papanikolis.

Although Greece accepts that the problems with the vessels have been fixed, the navy is unwilling to use a submarine that has been sitting idle for the past few years.

It seems that the Germans are willing to keep the Papanikolis and try to sell it to another interested buyer, thereby removing the stumbling block to any possible agreement.

The disagreement over the submarines, as well as a row about German-made Leopard tanks bought by Greece and Athens’s decision to buy American F-16 jets rather than Eurofighters, which are manufactured by a consortium that includes Germany, has soured relations between Athens and Berlin over the last few years.

ekathimerini.com | Submarine deal set to surface

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

SS:

The Greek issues with the Sub were known a long time ago.

The PN appears to be satisfied with whatever the Germans did to rectify the issue.

 

[Screaming Skull]

SS:

The Greek issues with the Sub were known a long time ago.

The PN appears to be satisfied with whatever the Germans did to rectify the issue.

So what s the latest on this? Why so much delay? Is it linked to the Indian MMRCA by any chance?

 

[Patriot]

TOT Issues.Germany is not willing to offer TOT from what i've heard on PAKDEF.Pakistan is trying to make a joint deal (Turkey+Pakistan will buy subs) with full TOT.

 

[Screaming Skull]

TOT Issues.Germany is not willing to offer TOT from what i've heard on PAKDEF.Pakistan is trying to make a joint deal (Turkey+Pakistan will buy subs) with full TOT.

How many subs Turkey gonna buy? Obviously if the combined order exceeds 6 then Germany will be hard pressed against ignoring the ToT demand.

 

[TOPGUN]

Hey lets hear some news about when we getting them or wats going with that forget about others right! i mean really wats going on with our deal still on hold?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So what s the latest on this? Why so much delay? Is it linked to the Indian MMRCA by any chance?

Could also be concerns that the US Congress may not like the fact that Pakistan dishes out 1.5 Billion for subs while the US is providing aid to Pakistan.

We have already seen the Pakistani Nuclear Program erroneously linked to the aid provided to Pakistan in the past, so its a valid concern IMO.

 

[sancho]

How many subs Turkey gonna buy? Obviously if the combined order exceeds 6 then Germany will be hard pressed against ignoring the ToT demand.

The ToT problem is not because of Turkey, I think they already working with them in this field and Turkey will put there own systems in the subs too.
The MMRCA competition has nothing to do with the delays, but maybe the fact that there could be another competition for 6 subs to the IN. Selling U214 to PN with ToT would wipe out Germany of the Indian competition.

Hey lets hear some news about when we getting them or wats going with that forget about others right! i mean really wats going on with our deal still on hold?

Latest reports said that Germany wants to wait till the election in sept. is over.

 

[mughaljee]

waiting for good (with TOT)

 

[Arsalan]

TOT Issues.Germany is not willing to offer TOT from what i've heard on PAKDEF.Pakistan is trying to make a joint deal (Turkey+Pakistan will buy subs) with full TOT.

yes not only on PAKDEF but also on this very forum we have been discussing the cause of elays! a turkish member here pointed to the issue on ToT. for more details i suggest to go through about last 40 post and you would find the reports and discussion!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

any updates about the deal!
its been so quite for so long now!
i hope it do not end in a negative!!!
can anyone caome up with soke inside news??

regards!

 

[z9-ec]

For those who are concerned.

German Ambassador calls on Defence Minister

ISLAMABAD, June 9 (APP): The Ambassador of Germany called on Federal Minister for Defence Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar at his office here on Tuesday. The Federal Minister apprised the ambassador that Pakistan greatly values its relations with Germany, which are based on mutual respect and cooperation. The Federal Minister said that the defence cooperation between the two countries was growing with every passing day. Still there is a great potential, which needs to be materialised. They also discussed the recent visit of Defence Minister of Pakistan to Germany, where he discussed the regional security environment in details with his German counterpart. During the meeting, the minister showed full commitment to eradicate terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. The Federal Minister proposed an enhanced interaction between the German Defence equipment production companies and defence production establishment of Pakistan. The Ambassador expressed that high-level exchanges of visits are an effective tool to strengthen cooperation between friendly nations and add substance to their relationships.

There's alot going on in the background. This meeting is a follow up of the recent visit to Germany by the defence minister where he met his counterpart.

 

[Arsalan]

For those who are concerned.



There's alot going on in the background. This meeting is a follow up of the recent visit to Germany by the defence minister where he met his counterpart.

now this report hints me about the ToT issue. so the rumor that the deal is being delayed because turkey in negotiating for complete ToT (remember that turkey and pakistan are now following a joint deal of 6 + 3 subs) may well prove to be true!
i wish i got it right as t is good for pakistan!

regards!