Pakistanis Have Become Disillusioned With GHQ

[Mirzali Khan]

YOURE BACK

 

[xyxmt]

How?

What will they do?

Will they make Gwadar "China's Bahrain"?

Will they capture Kashmir?

only if we promise to give entire captured territory for DHA

They should get some brownie points for conning the vast majority for 70 years.

 

[LeGenD]

For the first time in my lifetime the military has become the focal point of everything wrong in Pakistan. I know people who have always defended the military throughout their lives now openly calling out the GHQ as a den of traitors.

I know this because I was one of them. I remember being younger and defending the Pak Army on Orkut groups.

Since I was young all I knew was that politicians were corrupt and bad and the military were good and pious.

Your criticism of the Establishment is understandable but it missed the mark. Your post is more on the perception side than on the factual side.

I remember 1999 as a child and seeing everyone in my family cheering as troops climbed over the gates of the PM house. We defended the coup claiming it was necessary. Why would our military ever want to harm us? Little did I know....

FYI

'I felt helpless' pilot tells Sharif trial

The ousted prime minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, sat stoney faced in court yesterday as a pilot described how he had pleaded with air traffic controllers in Karachi to allow his plane carrying 200 passengers to land before it ran out of fuel.

www.theguardian.com

I sat silent and pretended to be blind while American drones were murdering civilians in Waziristan. When the Waziris spoke out I called them traitors and Afghan agents. Meanwhile GHQ were collecting their cheques from the Pentagon.

These "civilians" were providing shelter to terrorists from across the border.

Post in thread 'Protestors Should Raid Avenfield House' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/protestors-should-raid-avenfield-house.767217/post-14357300

These people also demand cultural and regional autonomy instead of opting for integration with Pakistan. This sentiment is at the core of Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) movement in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA).

The Pakistani Taliban Test Ties between Islamabad and Kabul | Crisis Group

Two large attacks on police installations have rocked Pakistan, compelling the authorities to rethink their approach to countering militancy. Their dilemma is that the insurgents’ main supporters – the new authorities in Afghanistan – are also their long-time allies.

www.crisisgroup.org

FATA, the TTP, and the Pitfalls of Pakistan's Counterterrorism Strategy – South Asian Voices

FATA's ethno-geographic proximity to Afghanistan and its previous politically autonomous status have made it susceptible to spillover of ethnic conflict and terrorism from across the border.

southasianvoices.org

Typical Pakistani complaint was to blame foreign countries for problems in Waziristan.

Pakistan's POLICY should have been to deny space to terrorists in any part of the country since 9/11.

Then COAS Pervez Musharraf wanted to put the country on the right track but many disagreed with him and his compromise was to adopt the policy of "strategic depth" for Afghanistan. In line with this policy, Pakistan chose to support Tehreek-e-Taliban Afghanistan (TTA) and negotiate with TTP from time-to-time. Meanwhile the likes of Laal Topi and Hamid Gul were allowed to feed the Public with theory of a global conspiracy to disarm Pakistan that must be stopped in its tracks.

On again, off again: A timeline of govt-TTP talks

A number of rounds of direct and indirect talks between the govt and the TTP have failed to bring lasting peace.

www.dawn.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/02/world/asia/pakistan-taliban/index.html

Now that the country's favorite Afghan Taliban are ruling Afghanistan, what has changed in Waziristan and otherwise?

Following verse comes to mind:

Surah Al-Isra - 81 - Quran.com

And declare, “The truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Indeed, falsehood is bound to vanish.”

quran.com

Current situation:

Pakistan Suffers Record Terror-Related Deaths, Afghanistan Registers 58% Drop

Global Terrorism Index says Pakistan-based Baluchistan Liberation Army is the fastest growing terrorist group in the world

www.voanews.com

TTP again threatens Pakistan with attacks on Maryam Nawaz, Rana Sanaullah other leaders - Pakistan Observer

ISLAMABAD – Banned TTP has threatened Pakistan once again with attacks on key leaders of the country especially Maryam Nawaz,…

pakobserver.net

Tough neighborhood out there now.

I sat silent during 2011 Abbottabad incident (I lived there by the way). Not only did I not hear any helicopters I didn't hear a crash either....mind you the city is in a valley and noise would have reverberated throughout the city. And let's just suppose American forces did manage to get to Abbottabad. Where was our air force? I just pretended it was all an American scam. Little did I know our COAS was part of it.

Just another subjective account of the incident.

Post in thread 'Revisiting Osama bin Ladin's fake raid' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/revisiting-osama-bin-ladins-fake-raid.766632/post-14348320

Not difficult to say that YOU do not know what happened.

I do not claim to know about everything happening in my surroundings.

I turned a blind eye to the Baloch, the poor, the folks who have had their lands stolen so DHAs could be built.

There is a need for completely honest discourse on the ground realities of Balochistan.

Recommended:

How Balochistan became a part of Pakistan – a historical perspective

Balochistan consists of the south west of Pakistan. In the west it borders with Afghanistan and Iran and in the south it has the Arabian Sea. It accounts for nearly half

www.nation.com.pk

The Resilience of Baloch Insurgencies: Understanding the Fifth Period

The Baloch peoples' insurgency has proved their resilience and ability to generate momentum for a cause that is unlikely to subside to Pakistani state repression.

www.e-ir.info

1. Balochi are historically found to be independent-minded and unruly.

The geography of Balochistan and a scattered population helped in building strong tribal identities or barriers that alienated them within themselves but also helped in ensuring isolation from outside forces. The advent of British rule certainly changed this. Taj Mohammad Breseeg in his book Baloch Nationalism: Its Origin and Development (2004, 181) argues that Baloch resistance to the British authorities was the result of individual tribal chiefs due to their own contentions. The failure to form a national struggle was due to “the lack of communication between the Baloch tribes and contact with the Indian people, having an enemy superior in arms and resources, and the lack of a proper political organisation to mobilise the masses.”

2. These people have demanded cultural and provincial autonomy instead of opting for integration with Pakistan.

"Like many other issues that are endemic to South Asia, the predicament of Baloch nationalism and insurgency deepened with the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan in 1947. As the withdrawal of the British and the partition became evident, the state of Kalat decided that it would remain independent and not join either India or Pakistan. Interestingly, in 1946, it was M.A Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan and the then legal advisor of the Khan of Kalat, who submitted a memorandum to the Cabinet Mission arguing that “Geographically, Kalat does not fall within the territorial limits of India” and “ethnographically, the people of Kalat and of the territories under its suzerainty, have no affinities with the people of India” (in Devasher 2019, 5&25).

Subsequently, the government of Kalat was set up with the establishment of a new Parliament as well as the adoption of a new constitution and flag. Elections were also held in the two houses of Parliament in late August of 1947. While Pakistan accepted an independent Kalat initially, “Jinnah had second thoughts… and was now desirous of obtaining its accession in the same form as was accepted by other rulers who joined Pakistan” (Ibid, 87). Consequently, as negotiations between the two broke down, Pakistan invaded Kalat and “the Khan was forced to sign the merger document and Kalat was annexed. This led to the first armed insurgency in 1948 led by the Khan’s brother” (Bansal 2005, 252).

After the first period of insurgency, and before 2004, the Baloch have launched a rebellion against the state three times in 1958, 1963–69, 1973–77. Devasher rightly notes that every Baloch “rebellion has lasted longer than the previous one, every rebellion has encompassed a wider geographical area than the previous one and every rebellion has involved more Baloch than the previous ones” (2019, 90). For instance, while the first two periods were relatively small, in 1973 “55,000 insurgents faced 80,000 Pakistani troops supported not only by Pakistani Air Force but also the Iranian Air Force. More than 5,000 insurgents and over 3,300 soldiers were killed in the insurgency that lingered on until 1977” (Bansal, 2005, 252).

Over the years, Pakistan’s pervasive and hard-handed response has induced a “psychological alienation from Islamabad” for the Baloch that has further pushed many towards demanding independence from the state rather than provincial autonomy (Harrison 1981, 4; Grare 2013). While tension and violence were fomenting for a few years, the current period of conflict was provoked in 2005 by the rape of a female doctor, Shazia Khalid, in the small Baloch town of Sui in the Dera Bugti Area committed “allegedly by the captain and three personnel of the Defence Security Guards. The government’s subsequent handling of the incident and its blatant attempt to cover up the crime and shield the culprits triggered massive outrage” (Wani 2016, 812).

The 1990s had ushered in a hope of political reconciliation with the rise of Baloch nationalist parties like the Balochistan National Party (BNP) but Pervez Musharraf’s coup in 1999 and his aggressive stance acted as a catalyst for the insurgency. While the state blamed the conflict on the tribal chiefs (Sardars), the tensed relations were “centred on grievances related to provincial sovereignty, the allocation of resources, interprovincial migrations, and the protection of local language and culture”, prevalent for decades (Grare 2013)."

Balochi hotheadedness compelled Pakistan Army to respond in kind. And typical Pakistani complaint was to blame foreign countries for problems in Balochistan.

My suggestion in following post:

Post in thread 'Pakistan must change its tactics to kill non state actors with non state fighters' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...-with-non-state-fighters.740994/post-13737133

The Government of Pakistan (GOP) should prioritize socioeconomic development of the Balochi population base. There is a need to create opportunities for Balochi people to benefit from CPEC.

There is also the need to educate Balochi population base and teach it to create Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs).

https://nbdp.org.pk/smedaweb/index.php/local/balochistan

Quaid-e-Azm's code for Pakistan:

UNITY
FAITH
DISCIPLINE

But Pakistan has missed the mark by a long shot.

Balochistan and Waziristan can either have tribes and autonomy (or) integrate with the country for development and prosperity.

What it should be?

Deep down I've always known something was off about how the military operated....I've never liked any of our COAS

Musharraf was a good orator and I appreciated the way he took on western media. But I always felt something off about him.

With Kayani, Sharif and Bajwa it was even worse...they've been nothing but snakes. You could tell by just the way they acted in public. They looked down upon us. We civilians are not worthy!

I can't believe for most of my life I ate up that ISPR crap. I feel so ignorant for falling for it.

And that's the thing. GHQ was betting on the public supporting them. But that didn't happen this time.

Our generals are the biggest enemies to this country and nothing short of a mutiny is now going to change that perception.

A year ago I would have never said any of this. But now I know....Imran Khan did what no other pseudo liberal could do....got the public to question the GHQ.

I have highlighted Musharraf's achievements in following post:

Post in thread 'Ex President and Ex COAS General Pervez Musharraf Passes Away' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ex-p...ez-musharraf-passes-away.760267/post-14208509

Musharraf was making the right calls but he lost the plot in the end. His advisors might be responsible?

Musharraf's greatest mistake was to consider the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO). This is something he admitted eventually.

NRO, a glaring mistake of my life: Pervez Musharraf

LONDON: Former president Pervez Musharraf said that NRO with political parties was a glaring mistake of his life. In an interview he said that Pakistan

www.nation.com.pk

Musharraf should also have launched construction of the Kalabagh Dam.

But...

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Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani was a proponent of the "strategic depth" endgame in Afghanistan:

Gen Kayani on `strategic depth`

GENERAL Kayani has eloquently conveyed Pakistan`s standpoint over the Afghanistan issue. According to him, the need...

www.dawn.com

U.S. Questions Pakistan’s Will to Stop Taliban (Published 2009)

The fall of a district near Pakistan’s capital to Taliban fighters has raised alarm about the ability of the government to fend off the militants’ advance.

www.nytimes.com

Pakistan Aids Insurgency in Afghanistan, Reports Assert (Published 2010)

Military documents reflect deep suspicions among U.S. officials that Pakistan’s spy service has for years guided the Afghan insurgency with a hidden hand.

www.nytimes.com

Pakistanis Tell of Motive in Taliban Leader’s Arrest (Published 2010)

Pakistani officials say they set out to capture Abdul Ghani Baradar because they wanted to shut down secret peace talks he had been conducting with the Afghan government.

www.nytimes.com

Kiyani also refused to launch a military operation in North Waziristan:

‘Kayani was reluctant to launch N Waziristan operation’

Former DG ISPR Maj Gen (retd) Athar Abbas said the military leadership was in favour of launching the offensive in 2010.

www.dawn.com

The government in Islamabad had earlier come under criticism for not quickly following its 2009 operation against militants in adjacent South Waziristan with an offensive in North Waziristan. Athar Abbas, a retired Pakistani general who served as the military’s spokesman from 2008 to 2012, said the army had been preparing to launch a North Waziristan operation in 2011, but the then Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, decided against it, because Pakistan would be seen as moving into North Waziristan “at the behest of the US,” which had, at the time, intensified its operations in Afghanistan. General Kayani was also worried about the impact of terrorist retaliation against Pakistan. Abbas described it as “a case of analysis and analysis leading to paralysis”.

Pakistani Army Operations in North Waziristan

North Waziristan (NW) is inhabited by a very large number of terror groups of all hues and colours.

www.spslandforces.com

This was the time when Pak - United States (US) bilateral relations began to decline and Obama administration stepped up drone attacks in FATA as well as approved unilateral operations inside Pakistan.

Drones decimating Taliban in Pakistan | CNN

Peter Bergen and Jennifer Rowland say the Obama administration has been quietly and effectively targeting militants with drones, drawing harsh scrutiny in Pakistan

edition.cnn.com

U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan 2020 | Statista

The statistic shows the number of U.S.

www.statista.com

General Kayani and U.S.-Pakistani Relations, 2007-2013 - War on the Rocks

Editor’s Note: This is another article in a short series on the legacy of the recently retired Pakistani Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez

warontherocks.com

Kiyani was not pro-US in his works. There is no proof of him facilitating Abbottabad Raid in 2011. Accusations are not proof.

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Rahil Sharif approved Operation Zarb-e-Azm in North Waziristan:

Pakistani Army Operations in North Waziristan

North Waziristan (NW) is inhabited by a very large number of terror groups of all hues and colours.

www.spslandforces.com

Sharif also approved focused operations against terrorism in Karachi:

Our goal is terror-free Karachi, says Gen Raheel | The Express Tribune

Pakistan’s economic progress linked with peace in Karachi

tribune.com.pk

‘Focused operations’ to continue in Karachi: Gen Raheel | The Express Tribune

The army chief was presiding over a security conference at the Corps Headquarters in Karachi

tribune.com.pk

Sharif was on the right track and enjoyed good reputation with the Public:

Raheel Sharif: The army chief who ruled without a coup

Pakistan's popular army chief is set to retire - how has the country changed under his watch?

www.bbc.com

---

Qamar Javed Bajwa supported PTI early on:

SAMAA TV - Latest Breaking News, Pakistan, World, Video news Home - SAMAA

Find latest breaking, trending, viral news from Pakistan and information on top stories, weather, business, entertainment, politics, sports and more. For in-depth coverage, Samaa English provides special reports, video, audio, photo galleries, and interactive guides.

www.samaaenglish.tv

The curious case of the Pakistani army chief’s extension

For three days last week, Pakistan was riveted by a surprise legal crisis over an extension in the term of its Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa. It was a last-minute showdown between the federal government and the Supreme Court.

www.brookings.edu

Remember those Third Umpire slogans?

But Bajwa withdrew his support for PTI-led government during his extended term.

Imran Khan: What led to charismatic Pakistan PM's downfall

A national hero from his cricketing days, Mr Khan has now fallen out with the powerful military.

www.bbc.com

And Pakistan's political climate has deteriorated consequently:

Imran Khan and Gen Bajwa — coins and sides | The Express Tribune

Imran Khan and PTI’s direct and indirect acquiescence on Army-bashing makes Imran Khan a highly controversial leader

tribune.com.pk

This article is a must read. Hypocrisy and irony is through the roof in the Pakistani political discourse lately. The country has become a laughing stock by extension.

Collecting cheques from the Pentagon

What have you done differently if you were in the shoes of Musharraf? Ask yourself this.

The assumption that Pakistan Army serves the WEST is misplaced.

Post in thread 'Pakistan places first order for discounted Russian crude' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...discounted-russian-crude.765500/post-14324626

Post in thread 'zaid hamid on General Asim, CIA, Imran, Election' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/zaid-hamid-on-general-asim-cia-imran-election.767511/post-14367246

Thanks to Musharraf, US was providing weapons as well as liquidity to Pakistan:

Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001

A brief listing of major arms sales and grants made to Pakistan since 2001.

digital.library.unt.edu

The Politics of US Aid to Pakistan: Aid Allocation and Delivery from Truman to Trump

This book aims at uncovering the politics behind the provision of US foreign aid to Pakistan during three distinctive periods: the Cold War, the post-Cold War and the

www.routledge.com

But Pakistan did not accept American demand of dismantling Taliban groups. Trump administration came to terms with this reality and decided to negotiate with TTA to find a solution that would be acceptable to both parties in Doha Accords.

Favors do not come for free though. Trump administration froze military aid to Pakistan:

U.S. Suspension of Pakistan Military Aid: What It May Mean

www.usip.org

Trump administration also pitched the Intra-Afghan Dialogue as the political endgame for Afghanistan:

Five Things to Know About the Afghan Peace Talks

The intra-Afghan negotiations that began on Saturday represent a watershed moment in the war: the first direct, official talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government. These historic talks commenced 19 years and one day after al-Qaida's 9/11 terrorist attacks drew the United States into...

www.usip.org

But Biden administration scrapped the Intra-Afghan Dialogue:

Biden Administration Defends Afghanistan Withdrawal Decisions in New Report

The White House issued its account of the decisions that preceded the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan as Congress is moving to investigate.

www.airandspaceforces.com

Americans had eliminated the perpetrators of 9/11 and TTA had agreed in writing to not allow any organization to plot and launch attacks on American soil in Doha Accords. Biden administration had a choice to accept these GAINS or to prolong the conflict further; it chose the former.

And Pakistan has secured its "strategic depth" in Afghanistan by extension.

So what is the problem now?
- Balochi terrorism?
- TTP terrorism?
- Political crisis?
- Economic crisis?

Go through the links provided up to understand how Pakistan ended up in this situation.

Now Pakistan expects from the US to solve its problems:

Is PTI quietly pushing for ‘patch up’ with US? | The Express Tribune

Imran Khan’s party has purportedly reached out to the US government as well as American think tanks

tribune.com.pk

SAMAA TV - Latest Breaking News, Pakistan, World, Video news Home - SAMAA

Find latest breaking, trending, viral news from Pakistan and information on top stories, weather, business, entertainment, politics, sports and more. For in-depth coverage, Samaa English provides special reports, video, audio, photo galleries, and interactive guides.

www.samaaenglish.tv

Pakistan needs significantly more financing for successful bailout review: IMF

“Our team is very heavily engaged of course with the authorities because Pakistan indeed faces a very challenging situation," says IMF spokeswoman.

www.dawn.com

Pakistan's political schzophrenia is perplexing to put it mildly.

US can make it possible for Pakistan to overcome its problems but Pakistan has to decide on how to carry its bilateral relations with the US. This isn't a one-way street in which US has to toe Pakistan's line in each matter or else Pakistan will throw its temper tantrums at US for not doing so. Bilateral relations are supposed to be mutually beneficial, and US cannot be wrong about everything. If a country offers good advice, it should be taken seriously. If Pakistan has disagreement with US on a particular matter then Pakistan should be truthful about its position and policy and state it very clearly. Do not lie and accuse the other side of lying. Who was lying and who was telling the truth should be clear to everybody by now.

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US and Iraq have literally fought war(s) with each other but both are finding a way forward in the present.

Iraqi Prime Minister Dr. Haider al-Abadi reached out to Obama administration to help defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) during his term:

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments-part-2.746450/post-14372663

Obama administration's Operation Inherent Resolve is a counterinsurgency and counterterrorism (COIN) masterpiece and ISIL is defeated.

Iraq did not care about how many American bombs were dropped on the ISIL positions, Iraq wanted to get rid of the ISIL and refused to talk to terrorists. This is how you defeat terrorism.

Now life is returning to normal in Iraq:

20 years after U.S. invasion, young Iraqis see signs of hope

BAGHDAD (AP) — On the banks of the Tigris River one recent evening, young Iraqi men and women in jeans and sneakers danced with joyous abandon to a local rap star as a vermillion sun set behind them.

apnews.com

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If Pakistan is to fight its battles on its own then do it and don't complain.

The country should not be illogical and hypocritical in its positions.

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One more thing. I am humanitarian in person. I find no joy in loss of innocent lives in any conflict. I do not support or condone attacks on those who are innocent in a conflict.

Islamic battle ethics for reference:

Military operation(s) should be conducted sensibly with good planning and intel and arrangements should be made to help innocent people escape from the conflict zone. By all means.

But terrorists do not have a honor code or ethics. These people are the khawarij. Do not expect humanity from these people.

 

[Neelo]

Yeah this one Faujeet mod here had a panic attack after we collectively drilled him a new bung hole. Proceeded to ban us all for 10 to 15 days….banned me for using the laughing emoji at his replies.

I was unbanned just two days ago.

Clown sent a long message in my inbox wanting to “teach me a lesson”….I didn’t even bother reading it and just deleted it and put him on ignore. LMFAO.

Won’t name him but that ponka knows who he is.

Looks like faujeet is back using his yankee daddy sources to defend his napak fauj terrorism against his own people.

 

[Neelo]

The argument that an armed faction/institution exists outside public scrutiny and/or purview can be construed as occupation force.

Do they seriously want to be perceived as such?

Read the reply from the faujeet to my original post just above.

Man spent 45 minutes replying to my post lmfao. 45 minutes!

They justify EVERY GHQ crime against Pakistan behind fake news and American talking points.

I knew the Faujeets were بے شرم but I didn't know to what extent they were.

Faujeet above is literally saying it's perfectly fine to use drones to murder civilians. Then uses American sources and Dawn to justify it! +

What he forgot to about was the 1980s and Zia ul Haq. That part he likes to pretend never happened.

 

[Abid123]

Looks like faujeet is back using his yankee daddy sources to defend his napak fauj terrorism against his own people.

Some people are born slaves.

 

[LeGenD]

Looks like faujeet is back using his yankee daddy sources to defend his napak fauj terrorism against his own people.

This is the best you can do?

It is acceptable for you to use yankee daddy sources when it suite you. Example in here. This is called hypocrisy, dear. One of the worst traits of a human.

SHAME

Read the reply from the faujeet to my original post just above.

Man spent 45 minutes replying to my post lmfao. 45 minutes!

They justify EVERY GHQ crime against Pakistan behind fake news and American talking points.

I knew the Faujeets were بے شرم but I didn't know to what extent they were.

Faujeet above is literally saying it's perfectly fine to use drones to murder civilians. Then uses American sources and Dawn to justify it! +

What he forgot to about was the 1980s and Zia ul Haq. That part he likes to pretend never happened.

It is called "research." You might be a Madrassah product so you wouldn't understand.

You are too brainwashed to pay heed to FACTS when they are conveyed to you in good faith. It is important to focus on "the WHY part" of drone strikes that occurred in FATA. You seem to forget that War On Terror was taking place in the region; a superpower was present in Afghanistan and was tracking movement(s) of terrorists many of whom moved to FATA due to friendly locals. What could Pakistan Army do in this situation when Kiyani was focused on strategic depth and indecision?

This isn't about terrorism, this is about understanding and learning from history. This is about understanding what is in the best interests of Pakistan.

What about the 1980s and Zia-ul-Haq? My intention is to NOT stop you from explaining to me what is in your mind. But you need to respond to my posts in SENSIBLE manner instead of TROLLING and MISBEHAVING.

I am deeply disappointed in you, dear.

Continue like this and your posting rights will be revoked. Sorry.

 

[Neelo]

Some people are born slaves.

I agree….then he proceeded to ban me for 3 weeks. This is how confident they are….

It’s going to fun watching this class get hung on every chowk in Pakistan. Can’t wait for it.