Pakistanis angry at Afghans for building fort on ridgeline between two countries

[Watani]

^ I know Afghans who truly love Pakistan because most of them were born in Peshawar and I also know Afghans who have negative image of Pakistan and avoid Pakistani's wherever they see them and that's mainly because of it's government. I also have met Urdu speaking Pakistani's who like Afghans but I have also met some who were very disrespectful towards me and abused my country for the trouble in Swat. So as you can see, good and bad exist on both sides. It's been a while now but my uncle's have returned to Afghanistan and work there in international embassies and my cousins have had rebuilding plans which they will continue with in Nangarhar. We are regularly in touch and even my father will leave soon for Afghanistan to work on rebuilding plans. Why?

 

[Omar1984]

^ I know Afghans who truly love Pakistan because most of them were born in Peshawar and I also know Afghans who have negative image of Pakistan and avoid Pakistani's wherever they see them and that's mainly because of it's government. I also have met Urdu speaking Pakistani's who like Afghans but I have also met some who were very disrespectful towards me and abused my country for the trouble in Swat. So as you can see, good and bad exist on both sides. It's been a while now but my uncle's have returned to Afghanistan and work there in international embassies and my cousins have had rebuilding plans which they will continue with in Nangarhar. We are regularly in touch and even my father will leave soon for Afghanistan to work on rebuilding plans. Why?

Pakistanis dont hate Afghans and we never hated Afghans. Even us Punjabi Pakistanis dont hate Afghans after all the nice things you Afghans say about us in the internet, but I'll be honest most of us dont care about Afghans anymore, before back in the 80s and 90s maybe most Pakistanis loved Afghans as we loved people from all Muslim countries, and we wanted a strong brotherhood with Afghanistan but today theres no love but no hate either.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well watani the Afghans i have met during my lifetime who were borned and raised in Pakistan are extremely Anti Pakistani. I think i speak for all my countrymen here, your people need to go home. Afghans have brought us nothing but misery and trouble; they are involved in smuggling, theft, prostitution(you name it). Pakistan police has done an excellent job in breaking these Afghan gangs who were robbing homes in Islamabad and would run off to FATA. Two of my uncles homes were robbed off in Islamabad in broad day light by one of these gangs, i was soo relieved to hear that many of these thugs were killed off with encounters with the police. Our nation has done soo much for your country, we took in millions of refugees and how do you pay us back? Its about time your people went home, i am sure that will help Pakistan a lot.

 

[Watani]

@Omar & Eagle
I respect your guys opinions and views, but just like you guys, everyone has an opinion, view and experience of their own. Those Afghans I know who dislike Pakistan have also got their own part of the story and my Pakistani Pakhtoon friends got their part of story. I can go on about your post and tell you Afghan part of the story but that's not what I am in for here. I came to this Forum to clear up some things which I hope I did with my previous posts, so I mainly came to discuss about Afghan politics because I saw many people have wrong ideas about Afghans in general. Nor am I trying to draw a good picture of Afghans because of course somewhere Afghans also have got themselves to blame for the situation in Afghanistan. I only hope I have informed some people about things they didn't know about or were misinformed about and once again I appreciate any help Pakistan has given Afghanistan and believe me or not, millions of Afghans love Pakistani's and especially we Pakhtoons. Those who swear online at Pakistani's or anyone else are just cowards who can only bark online but don't forget that a barking dog seldom bites.

 

[S-2]

"It's fairly possible USA is profiting from finding heroin and opium in the country and then sell it to other countries..."

That must be what happened in Nangahar, eh? 27,000 hectares +/- in 2005 goes to zero in 2008 (see UNODC 2008 Afghan Opium Survey).

So much for your sense of balance. The British, prior to April of THIS YEAR, hadn't ventured south of Garmsir town in Helmand. Indian country for the Brits and untraveled at that.

That, btw, is the Helmand which according to the same UNODC survey had over 103,000 hectares of opium under cultivation-quite possibly equal to the rest of the world.

And you suggest it's "...fairly possible" that we're ripping off all that dope and flooding the market.

Idiocy...but entirely new. NOBODY has suggested that one yet.

This deserves an explanation as to how you've come to postulate this premise as plausible. Would you mind doing so? I'd be immensely curious as I suspect that every muslim's convenient whipping boy, America, is being again unfairly pummeled.

To my humble mind your balanced perspectives about afghans assuming responsibility for internal and endemic issues just took a flying leap off the edge of reality.

 

[S-2]

"i guess u remember, what Amirtage..."

No. He didn't say such. Close but not an overt threat nor so "colorfully". Diplomats prefer some level of ambiguity. "Stone age" offers none nor would such a choice of words fit into the professional lexicon of a man such as Armitage.

Here are Armitage's comments on this subject-

Armitage Denies Making "Stone Age" Threat-NPR

 

[SSGPA1]

"It's fairly possible USA is profiting from finding heroin and opium in the country and then sell it to other countries..."

That must be what happened in Nangahar, eh? 27,000 hectares +/- in 2005 goes to zero in 2008 (see UNODC 2008 Afghan Opium Survey).

So much for your sense of balance. The British, prior to April of THIS YEAR, hadn't ventured south of Garmsir town in Helmand. Indian country for the Brits and untraveled at that.

That, btw, is the Helmand which according to the same UNODC survey had over 103,000 hectares of opium under cultivation-quite possibly equal to the rest of the world.

And you suggest it's "...fairly possible" that we're ripping off all that dope and flooding the market.

Idiocy...but entirely new. NOBODY has suggested that one yet.

This deserves an explanation as to how you've come to postulate this premise as plausible. Would you mind doing so? I'd be immensely curious as I suspect that every muslim's convenient whipping boy, America, is being again unfairly pummeled.

To my humble mind your balanced perspectives about afghans assuming responsibility for internal and endemic issues just took a flying leap off the edge of reality.

Karzai's brother is the biggest drug lord in Afghanistan.

CIA is in bed with all war lords and drug lords who support Karzai so why do you think that the CIA (Not america) is not involved in drug trade?

Loss of Nangahar was probably gain of some other region because Afghanistan still leads the world in production and trade of all sorts of drugs.

BTW, have the US and West built a state of the art hospital in AGhanista yet? 4000 or 40,000 will not make any impact unless locals are supporting the mission!

 

[S-2]

"...president pervez musharaff confessed it was told to him?"

Ah...by whom?

Armitage didn't speak with Musharaff.

 

[Watani]

^ Americans definitely have got something to with it but the question is till what extend? Maybe not for the largest part but as it's said before Americans have put the warlords in power and those warlords are type of people who are overlooking any kind of crime in Afghanistan plus they just do what Americans tell them to. The opium and heroin 'rate' was extremely low before the Taliban regime and especially during the Taliban regime. Since USA has invaded Afghanistan, opium and heroin rate seem to increase a lot all around Afghanistan and even on British documentary 'Dispatches' the British were talking about the American involvement in selling of opium and heroin because don't forget that everywhere in Afghanistan there are at least some Americans. And talking about my sense of balance and Afghan sense of balance while I myself have over and over again said definitely Afghans also have got themselves to blame for their current situation. Hope you had your explanation.

 

[S-2]

"The opium and heroin 'rate' was extremely low before the Taliban regime and especially during the Taliban regime."

No Watani. This is a muslim myth. In fact, the taliban regime presided over a world record bumper crop of opium in 1999 and cultivated large sections of Afghanistan with opium from the time they seized power in 1996 literally until 2001 when it dropped to nil...

...overnight.

All of this is also easily researched. Have you not done so or do you prefer trite assumptions without factual foundation?

Opium is and has long been a means of fueling warfare in Afghanistan by insurgents or brigands. Nothing has changed nor the key players.

 

[Watani]

^ I didn't say Afghans haven't got to do with this at all, because once again Afghans ARE to be blamed for their country. And the heroin and opium rate hit it's high point in 2006 and if I am not mistaken than during Taliban time it was around 70% of world heroin/opium and in 2006 over 90% of world heroin/opium. And what do you mean by Muslim myth? I don't even know a lot about Islam and I admit I don't even practise it as much as a Muslim should.

 

[S-2]

"And what do you mean by Muslim myth?"

My apologies. It may indeed be universal by this point. Nonetheless, it's been my experience here at def.pk that this perspective did and still resides as a truism in muslim communities.

It likely exists in western culture by those who've a skewed understanding of the taliban's history as a ruling government. Their "strict", barbaric, and archaic sense of law and order has been misconstrued by western sympathizers such that opium's total eradication is an unchallenged falsehood WRT the taliban.

Not that it hadn't happened-or near so but WHY and WHAT had preceded such an epic shift. And "epic", it was. Now again, in the one area that has seen nary the light of ISAF or the Afghan government, southern Helmand, but all the taliban you'd care to find amidst their pashtu friends and associates, you can see opium in its plentitude. Half the world's, I believe, in one province largely dominated in the hinterlands of such by the taliban.

Taliban. Opium. Where they can, they will. About that simple in a social order that offers little other means of livlihood for an economy. The taliban absolutely rely upon opium as an income. Almost enculturated now after the legacy of their mujahideen forebearers who did the same during the Afghan-Soviet war.

"It's fairly possible USA is profiting from finding heroin and opium in the country and then sell it to other countries..."

This comment remains unexplained. I look forward to reading the basis for your contentions here.

Thanks.

 

[xebex]

Karzai's brother is the biggest drug lord in Afghanistan.

CIA is in bed with all war lords and drug lords who support Karzai so why do you think that the CIA (Not america) is not involved in drug trade?

Loss of Nangahar was probably gain of some other region because Afghanistan still leads the world in production and trade of all sorts of drugs.

BTW, have the US and West built a state of the art hospital in AGhanista yet? 4000 or 40,000 will not make any impact unless locals are supporting the mission!

when u claim something,claim it with sufficient proof..

 

[Watani]

@S-2
The statement I was talking about is that especially Helmand was pointed at for the massive growth of opium and heroin but after researches none in Helmand was caught selling those opium and heroin and I fail to understand why every kind of criminal is being caught in Afghanistan but not many opium and heroin dealers? And I admit that if I say since USA invasion it's rate has hit the high point then I also mean the Northern Alliance as they were put in charge by USA, maybe I should have mentioned them before. Many warlords work for Northern Alliance and CIA is supporting Northern Alliance with everything and defend them from everything, even though Hamid Karzai is the president yet he has got less to say than the Northern Alliance. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned USA as it would mean an entire nation, but CIA who are mainly Americans.

So definitely CIA and the warlords are involved in the massive growth of opium and drugs and also the fact those 'sellers' don't get caught at all or very less of them being caught makes you suspicious while they are able to spy so many people except for the opium and heroin sellers. And let me also say that the Northern Alliance (mainly warlords) aren't supporting Karzai much and nor is Karzai too happy about the Northern Alliance power. Even after suspecting Karzai, the USA had searched Karzai's every single detail to find out whether he might be cheating or messing with the money somehow. It turned out that Karzai only had 10.000 dollars in his account while the warlords had way bigger money amounts in their bank states. So I don't think Karzai has got as much to do with it. Northern Alliance will keep blaming Karzai for everything but most of their accusations so far have turned out to be false.

 

[LiberalPakistani]

lets not get into this Pakistani's Love Afgan's and Afgan's Love Pakistani's lets not promote hate i've met a couple of Afganis living in Pakistan they are very much pro-Pakistani a act of 1 Afgan men doesnt mean that every Afgan's is a terrorist theres a big difference between a terrorist and a Mujahideen.Freedom will prevail in Afganistan Inshallah !