Pakistanis and caste system

[Zarvan]

Following caste system? What do you mean?

Caste is not some religious scriptures which you can follow. Its like saying that in punjab people follow the Punjabi ethnicity

what about people in Khyber?

Afridi? shinwari? Yusufzai? Niazi? Swati?

Marriage is a personal choice and people should be free to marry whoever they wish. I personally careless about this issues. If some pashtun don't want to marry their daughters with Punjabi or vice versa.. Is it wrong ? Is it hypocrisy?

Same is true for people live in Sindh/balochistan as they also belong to different tribes and castes. Nothing wrong to recognise your caste/tribes but you should not consider yourself superior because of your caste/tribe/ethnicities

These are not castes these are basically their origins not castes their tribes are named after one of their famous elders

 

[INDIC]

In Pakistan zaat is defined as qom. Zaat and Qom are the same.

Zaat and Kabaili are two different words.

 

[Spring Onion]

Punjabi or Sindhi people never had tribal system.

they always had FEUDAL system which as discriminatory as Hindu cast system

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

^Tribes of KPK are different from your castes in punjab, all tribes are of same social status, no concept of high or low, superior or inferior. And compared to hetergenous castes of different origin in punjab, our tribes are related to each other, i.e our tribes are branches of one big family divided into khels, clans, sub-clans and so on. Also unlike your castes, our tribes intermarry with each other.

whatever you said for tribes is also true for castes. Castes also split into different separate subdivisions. I have seen a plenty of enmity between shinwari and afridi tribe in khyber region during my stay there. I have also heard from many pashtuns that Khatuk are not real pashtun and also people don't marry with those pashtun who are doing certain jobs like barber/cobbler or others such lower jobs from generations.

It is also gross generalization that all Punjabi stick to their caste and dont marry out side their castes or feel superior because they belong to certain caste. Educated Punjabi People dont care about caste of any person and most of them don't even bother to know about their origin/caste let alone others. Caste system is practically dead in cities and every one can call himself as shiekh , rajpout, jatt, choudri, malik, syed etc whatever and people will not ask for any certificate to prove that you actually belong to these castes before giving you job or rishta. Most families care about character, education and financial status of guys before anything else and you will get respect if you own these things no matter which caste you belong. No one will give you respect or rishta if you just belong to high caste but selling drugs on mall road

Again how many pashtuns are willing to marry their girls with muslim guys outside their pasthuns tribes for example with Punjabi, sindhi , muhajir if they are good muslim? I have seen very few cases there that is also in attock city. So if a person only marry to someone who belong to his ethnicity or speak his mother tongue then is it ok? how it is different to people marry within their castes?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Again how many pashtuns are willing to marry their girls with muslim guys outside their pasthuns tribes for example with Punjabi, sindhi , muhajir if they are good muslim?

Discussion was about caste system in Punjab and you are questioning whether Pashtuns are good muslims or not?....hamay islam sikanay se pehley ye parrh lu key tum logo ko islam se introduce kis ne karaya...I have been to punjab on tabligh several times and i know how much muslims are you people, so in future dont try to give islamiyat lecture to any Pashtun.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Discussion was about caste system in Punjab and you are questioning whether Pashtuns are good muslims or not?....hamay islam sikanay se pehley ye parrh lu key tum logo ko islam se introduce kis ne karaya...I have been to punjab on tabligh several times and i know how much muslims are you people, so in future dont try to give islamiyat lecture to any Pashtun.

You have comprehension issue there Let me repeat it in urdu what i said there

Mere matlab yea that k pashtun loug apni larki ka rishta kisi punjabi yea sindhi ko dein ghey agar wo punjabi yea sindhi acha musalmaan ho tu?

now i dont know how you make it that i am questioning the iman of pashtuns

I have been to punjab on tabligh several times and i know how much muslims are you people, so in future dont try to give islamiyat lecture to any Pashtun.

Yea you self righteous guys are more pious than us. I am actually surprised that you are giving tablig after reading this statement lol

tell us how you measure the iman of punjabi people since you said you know them(their iman) ?

and islamiat lecture Janab mein app ki tra tabligi tu hoon nhi ka jo dosroon ko lecure doon ga. I spend more time on correcting myself than criticizing and condemning others


Bura Jo Dekhan Main Chala, Bura Naa Milya Koye
Jo Munn Khoja Apnaa, To Mujhse Bura Naa Koye

I searched for the crooked, met not a single one
When searched myself, "I" found the crooked one

 

[Don Jaguar]

they always had FEUDAL system which as discriminatory as Hindu cast system

In punjab it is far less fuedal then sindh.

 

[miss]

People that dont know about caste talking about caste.
Caste was just about organizing society, not some evil thing as you are making it out to be.
Nuclear technology can be used for good or evil purposes. Same thing with religion. and also with caste. Close topic and move on.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

People that dont know about caste talking about caste.
Caste was just about organizing society, not some evil thing as you are making it out to be.
Nuclear technology can be used for good or evil purposes. Same thing with religion. and also with caste. Close topic and move on.

why close topic? Nothing wrong to discuss it and we are not talking about caste system from the perspective of Hinduism but Islam and Pakistani society

 

[miss]

why close topic? Nothing wrong to discuss it and we are not talking about caste system from the perspective of Hinduism but Islam and Pakistani society

from what i hear there is no caste in islam. but the practise is followed by converts from south asia.
the analogy is like this. in UK many pakystanis follow the same village feudal mentality despite living for a generation there and converting to UK citizenship. similarly caste system is also carried on by the same people altho they converted to islam long time ago.
But again, caste was not meant to be evil. it is the practise of it in an evil way that has made it evil.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

whatever you said for tribes is also true for castes. Castes also split into different separate subdivisions. I have seen a plenty of enmity between shinwari and afridi tribe in khyber region during my stay there. I have also heard from many pashtuns that Khatuk are not real pashtun and also people don't marry with those pashtun who are doing certain jobs like barber/cobbler or others such lower jobs from generations.

Your castes may have sub-sections but the branching system is entirely different from tribal framework of Pashtuns. Our population is mostly homogeneous while that of Punjab is heterogenous. In a Pashtun village a single clan lives forexample my village is nawar khel with population of almost 2000, we all are desendants of a man named nawar khan. Nawar khel has further 5 sub-clans, who are descendants of 5 sons of nawar khel. I can trace mu shajra nasab to nawar khan. On the same pattren, there are 150 villages in my district lakki marwat, who are all from marwat tribe and are desendants of an afghan prince, marwat khan lodhi. A person not related to tribe is only allowed to settle in the village as vassals. Now in your punjab people of different castes live in the same village.
Tribal enmities and inter-tribal wars are common among Pashtuns, pashtuns are notorious for inter-tribal wars but you cant conclude that they fought with each other because they look down upon each other. There is not a single Pashtun tribe who has no enmity with its neighbors, disunity is our problem since ancient times......agar ye aik united qaum hoti tu duniya par raj kar rahi hoti.
There is history behind those karigar people. Pashtuns were purely martial people , they loved wars and despised settling their lives with certain professions. Every member of tribe was required to participate in war, those who refused and wanted peaceful lives and chose these professions become isolated from rest as they were labeled cowards. They also stopped participating in jirga. They passed on their professions to their generations. Nowadays people dont marry with these karigars because they dont practice Pashtunwali. Khattaks are pure pashtuns but they are mocked because they are very weak in pashtunwali and their reputation is also not good as they actively joined British indian army against which we were resisting.

Again how many pashtuns are willing to marry their girls with muslim guys outside their pasthuns tribes for example with Punjabi, sindhi , muhajir if they are good muslim? I have seen very few cases there that is also in attock city. So if a person only marry to someone who belong to his ethnicity or speak his mother tongue then is it ok? how it is different to people marry within their castes?

Every Pashtun family has the right to marry their girl to a family of their own wishes. Normally people are comfortable to marry within their own community, culture and ethnicity. Love marriages are exceptions. In case of arrange marraige, parents dont need to search rishta in distant places, they look for a family in their own area about whom they know every details and can trust them. In urban centers like islamabad, pindi. lahore, karachi etc, marraiges of Pashtuns (educated and non-traditional ones) with other ethnicities is very common phenomena.

 

[Icarus]

Discussion was about caste system in Punjab and you are questioning whether Pashtuns are good muslims or not?....hamay islam sikanay se pehley ye parrh lu key tum logo ko islam se introduce kis ne karaya...I have been to punjab on tabligh several times and i know how much muslims are you people, so in future dont try to give islamiyat lecture to any Pashtun.

So it's official? I being a Punjabi am condemned by God to be a bad muslim and you being a Pushtun are born with a right to heaven? That's what your post seems to imply......I can also hot cheap shots at Pukhtun cultural practices that are in disagreement with Islamic principles but I have too many friends and good memories from FATA to ruin them for making a cheap point.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Yea you self righteous guys are more pious than us. I am actually surprised that you are giving tablig after reading this statement lol

tell us how you measure the iman of punjabi people since you said you know them(their iman) ?

and islamiat lecture Janab mein app ki tra tabligi tu hoon nhi ka jo dosroon ko lecure doon ga. I spend more time on correcting myself than criticizing and condemning others


Bura Jo Dekhan Main Chala, Bura Naa Milya Koye
Jo Munn Khoja Apnaa, To Mujhse Bura Naa Koye

I searched for the crooked, met not a single one
When searched myself, "I" found the crooked one

May amaal aur faraiz ki baat kar raha ta, level of imaan ki nahi, uss say tu sirfallah ba-khabar hota he.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

All of Punjab is in Pakistan. Please stop making a fool of yourself. I request you as a friend.

Haha...I think they already know that
There's no other way to explain their complex.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

from what i hear there is no caste in islam. but the practise is followed by converts from south asia.
the analogy is like this. in UK many pakystanis follow the same village feudal mentality despite living for a generation there and converting to UK citizenship. similarly caste system is also carried on by the same people altho they converted to islam long time ago.
But again, caste was not meant to be evil. it is the practise of it in an evil way that has made it evil.

You guys should read the posts of others properly before jumping towards reply. Where i said that there are castes in Islam ? I said we are are talking about Islamic point of views about castes. Muslims belong to different tribes/ethnicities/castes/cultures/nation/colour/races etc and Islam recognise them all and tell us that GOD divided people into different races, ethnic groups, tribes so that they can get to know one another. Islam oppose that superiority lie in race, colour, caste or any other feature. The only criteria of superiority in Islam is the closeness to God and living by faith and morals. There is a verse 49:13 in Quran which state

Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God's sight is that one of you who best performs his duty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

Castes are not evils but discrimination/injustice/prejudices/social inequality based on caste are evil