Pakistani sufi band to perform in Delhi

[seethru]

Music of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

folk music distinct.
rest
different labels.
one word 'Indo-persian' could have sufficed.(for both religious and secular music traditions)

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Santro can you elaborate "Indian technique" and "Muslim element"?? Except Dhrupad everything has Muslim element in it, whether it is in India or in Pakistan..

Music (i.e. Hindustani music) borrowed from everything around, but those were only elements. e.g. "taranas" from Persia, certain Ragas like Hansadhwani and Kiruvani (among many more) from Carnatic music and so on. Khayal and Dhrupad again in themselves are only elements (though larger ones). Just as there were elements like Gul, Chand-Prabandh, Dhaaru etc etc etcetc.There is no such thing as a Muslim element in all this. If there were then one might have found this music being sung outside the Indian sub-contient as well.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Yes, Muslims introduced khayal, Qawali, Tarana, Thumri, Kafi etc...

Thumri like Dadra is from the folk music of what is now UP in India. Because the "Kothewali-bais" picked it up in the Mughal times, there is an erroneus belief that it is Muslim or Islamic in origin.

 

[seethru]

Thumri like Dadra is from the folk music of what is now UP in India. Because the "Kothewali-bais" picked it up in the Mughal times, there is an erroneus belief that it is Muslim or Islamic in origin.

First of there is nothing like muslim music or element.
Islamic music simply means the religious music inspired from native music traditions of North Africa, middle east, central Asia, Persia and India.

 

[Adnan Faruqi]

I can agree with you, but Indian classical music has died. Dispute me with an artist of this day and age.

For pakistanis India = North India

Indian music = bollywood

Lack of info/knowledge = unreal pictures and myth

 

[Emmie]

Music (i.e. Hindustani music) borrowed from everything around, but those were only elements. e.g. "taranas" from Persia, certain Ragas like Hansadhwani and Kiruvani (among many more) from Carnatic music and so on. Khayal and Dhrupad again in themselves are only elements (though larger ones). Just as there were elements like Gul, Chand-Prabandh, Dhaaru etc etc etcetc.There is no such thing as a Muslim element in all this. If there were then one might have found this music being sung outside the Indian sub-contient as well.

Tarana never came from Persia, altho many words and syllables are based on Persian.. Yes, many ragas are taken from carnatic music, if not whole then at least the scale with some modifications.. There is some sort of Muslim element, for instance Tarana, it contains the words like "Yalla" means Ya Allah, "Yalli" means Ya Ali... Khayal evolved with the passage of time, many Gharanas (all most all Gharanas were founded by Muslims) introduced new things... Dhrupad on other hand remained native with no major modifications..

 

[Emmie]

Thumri like Dadra is from the folk music of what is now UP in India. Because the "Kothewali-bais" picked it up in the Mughal times, there is an erroneus belief that it is Muslim or Islamic in origin.

Thats not right, Thumri doesn't resemble with Dadra or Hori when it comes to presentation..

there is an erroneus belief that it is Muslim or Islamic in origin

Please refer me to any source, authentic.

 

[Subramanian]

Yes, Muslims introduced khayal, Qawali, Tarana, Thumri, Kafi etc...

Those are very little changes man,The raga is the main thing.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Tarana never came from Persia, altho many words and syllables are based on Persian.. Yes, many ragas are taken from carnatic music, if not whole then at least the scale with some modifications.. There is Muslim some sort of Muslim element, for instance Tarana, it contains the words like "Yalla" means Ya Allah, "Yalli" means Ya Ali... Khayal evolved with the passage of time, many Gharanas (all most all Gharanas were founded by Muslims) introduced new things... Dhrupad on other hand remained native with no major modifications..

I love the confidence with which you seek to purvey your wares.

The Tarana word itself came from Farsi (Persian). Amir Khusro (from India) is credited with having created the tarana. Since Farsi was the language of the court with which Amir Khusro was connected he did use Farsi syllables in the compostion. Yes, "Yalla" is supposed to be connected to Ya Allah just as "Yallali" (not Yalli). These syllables were used in Taranas just as "Nom" and "Tom" were. Now where did that come from? From "Om". So it was not Hindu or Muslim in character. For Amir Khusro it was simply "ibadat" in character. Because for him music was "ibadat". Just as Music for a Hindu was intended to take him closer to god. Amir Khusro took inspiration from everwhere around him, just listen to his "Phool rahi sarson" or "Kahe ko byahe bides" for illustration.
Now about the technical structure or layout of the Tarana, research on Thillana in Carnatic Music from South India. It will be revealing. Music and Musicians of those times were complete free birds. They would not allow anybody or anything to enfetter them.

The word Gharana comes from which language? And what does it seek to signify?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Thats not right, Thumri doesn't resemble with Dadra or Hori when it comes to presentation..



Please refer me to any source, authentic.

Either you did'nt read the post or you did not understand it.
Thumri is distinctly different from Dadra or Hori or Jhoola or Kajri or Baramasa. And they are all from folk music. They are called "Upshastriya Sangeet". I have the original forms and the versions sung by classical singers of the same lyrics. Classical singers adopted these forms to make their performances more attractive. However there is one difference between all these forms and pure classical music (Shastriya Sangeet). If you understand music, you would know it- treatment of the ragas.
Hence the tag of "Upshastriya".

Now these folk art forms were taken up by the "kothewalli bais" (who happened to have grown up listening to them) and taken to the courts. That caught the fancy of the patrons, so these forms were given polish and embellishment. One such patron was Nawab Wajid Ali Shah of Awadh who was so taken up by this that he learnt music (and dance) so that he could compose. He and Bindadin Maharaj were probably the most prolific composers of thumris that ever were. Thats about as Muslim as it gets.

 

[JonAsad]

Sufi Music is for Dummies- -

 

[Emmie]

I love the confidence with which you seek to purvey your wares.

The Tarana word itself came from Farsi (Persian). Amir Khusro (from India) is credited with having created the tarana. Since Farsi was the language of the court with which Amir Khusro was connected he did use Farsi syllables in the compostion. Yes, "Yalla" is supposed to be connected to Ya Allah just as "Yallali" (not Yalli). These syllables were used in Taranas just as "Nom" and "Tom" were. Now where did that come from? From "Om". So it was not Hindu or Muslim in character. For Amir Khusro it was simply "ibadat" in character. Because for him music was "ibadat". Just as Music for a Hindu was intended to take him closer to god. Amir Khusro took inspiration from everwhere around him, just listen to his "Phool rahi sarson" or "Kahe ko byahe bides" for illustration.
Now about the technical structure or layout of the Tarana, research on Thillana in Carnatic Music from South India. It will be revealing. Music and Musicians of those times were complete free birds. They would not allow anybody or anything to enfetter them.

The word Gharana comes from which language? And what does it seek to signify?

Hehe....So what?? Thats right, the word Tarana hails from Persian language now does that mean Tarana genre was taken from Persia? Reread what you said about that..

If you are coming that way then its also Yallalay and not only Yalla, I just made it simple to make people understand.. In renditions Yalla can sound Yallalay and Yalali can sound Yalli.. Its all about improvisation.. Give a heed to Qaul you'll get a better idea, I have numerious renditions if you say i can upload them. And I am not confused about the purpose of Tarana.

Om?? Read what Ustad Amir Khan said about the words of Tarana..

First off not much is known about Thilana, secondly where did I say Tarana was a brand new concept? Couldn't you pick what I said " Tarana never come from Persia"

The word Gharana comes from which language? And what does it seek to signify?

Ohh.. So you are thinking that way!!! Lol

 

[Emmie]

Either you did'nt read the post or you did not understand it.
Thumri is distinctly different from Dadra or Hori or Jhoola or Kajri or Baramasa. And they are all from folk music. They are called "Upshastriya Sangeet". I have the original forms and the versions sung by classical singers of the same lyrics. Classical singers adopted these forms to make their performances more attractive. However there is one difference between all these forms and pure classical music (Shastriya Sangeet). If you understand music, you would know it- treatment of the ragas.
Hence the tag of "Upshastriya".

Now these folk art forms were taken up by the "kothewalli bais" (who happened to have grown up listening to them) and taken to the courts. That caught the fancy of the patrons, so these forms were given polish and embellishment. One such patron was Nawab Wajid Ali Shah of Awadh who was so taken up by this that he learnt music (and dance) so that he could compose. He and Bindadin Maharaj were probably the most prolific composers of thumris that ever were. Thats about as Muslim as it gets.

Sir I asked you about the source, not about the difference between genres!! I know much about Hindustani classical music and its genres..

One such patron was Nawab Wajid Ali Shah of Awadh who was so taken up by this that he learnt music (and dance) so that he could compose. He and Bindadin Maharaj were probably the most prolific composers of thumris that ever were. Thats about as Muslim as it gets.

Yes, singers embellished something and presented it as a new and different thing.. Like Kafi, its Thumri but the language is Multani..

 

[Emmie]

Those are very little changes man,The raga is the main thing.

Not all ragas were taken from Carnatic music... Many Ragas were formulated by singers, like Yaman Kalyan, Bahar etc... Many Ragas were formulated by merging two Ragas, like Ahir-Bhairav, Nat Kamod, Nat Bihag etc.

Yeah, I agree a raga is everything.... Basic Idea remains the same.

And those were not some little changes... Like I said Khayal never existed before Muslims. Khayal at this point in time is much practiced music in India and Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

Santro can you elaborate "Indian technique" and "Muslim element"?? Except Dhrupad everything has Muslim element in it, whether it is in India or in Pakistan..

Ragas, Gayiki.. all have their base in EVERY culture..
You may hear a song from yemen that may have elements of Bhairvi or Lahori.
Its just certain arrangements of Musical notes that have been classified.
Some basic ones have been passed through the times of the early Hindus(and by that I encompass all those that lived in hindustan and followed the religions there) .. Through the times of the Mughals there were artistic families that were frequents of the courts.
They took these basic elements and introduced modified forms which are the many raag's you see today.
So as such.. There is no "Islamic" element in it.. but Muslims from all over the world have contributed a lot to history and development of Music.