Pakistani Nationalism - contradictions?

[django]

@Desert Fox @Psychic @django @Game.Invade

Your inputs?

I have always considered Pakistan as a mosaic of different groups all with a rich history, what unites us is common values due to Islamic principles which define our objective values, of course their are other factors such as sharing of Indus water, if we were all separate nations we Punjab , Kpk, Sindh would all have serious water sharing issues with each other etc, plus we face common security challenges due to Kashmir being jugular vein (Indus water) of nation so if we are united as a nation we can face those challenges in a far more effective manner than would as single nation states were we really would be be exploited and dominated,,,,,, despite all the banter one hears from Punjabs, Sindhis, Pashtuns about each other the reality is when one is in trouble the others go out of their way to help, eg 2005 earthquake and 2010 floods which both caused damage on a biblical scale, it was truly horrendous and many nation would have just withered away take for example "cough" "cough" Haiti after their earthquake they are still pretty much in the same place where as Pakistan due to the faith, unity and discipline whole nation was truly galvanized in every corner of country to confront these gargantuan events and we made a full recovery, this truly was nationhood and patriotism at its finest, everyone was thinking not what the country can do for them but what they can do for the country.Kudos bhai

 

[Norwegian]

Whats your definition of a failed state?

Pakistan is by every definition a failed state. Because none of the state institutions apart from defense are working. Civil governance is very weak. Judiciary hardly independent. And media is free but stupid.
The only reason Pakistan still remains a state is because of its strongest working institution, that is its army. If it wasn't there, it wouldn't take long before it's another Afghanistan.

So your logic is that any leader of a state that becomes popular is bad and should be kicked out?

Yes of course if they become a burden to the country.

 

[Imad.Khan]

ask a Real Turk not some AKP troll he is disliked and Ataturk was a better leader than this Georgian watermellon seller

@Hakikat ve Hikmet @xenon54 @MMM-E @T-123456 @KediKesenFare @Test7 @Oublious @cabatli_53 @Timur @Sinan @damm1t @mustafa erkan @CAN_TR

Guys can i get your views on what @OsmanAli98 is saying. All my Turkish friends here are pro Erdogan

 

[Yankee-stani]

I have a lot of Turkish friends and except one all of the love Erdogan. and from your comment it seems that anyone that loves Erdogan is not a real Turk.

Again depends on person

 

[Nilgiri]

everyone was thinking not what the country can do for them but what they can do for the country.

Always loved that quote by JFK.

Yes the earthquake recovery effort was a good example bro of just what is needed energy/spirit wise all the time....kudos bhai.

 

[GHALIB]

You are spot on bro. Nationalism is region bound, while religion is global. This in itself is contradictory. Not sure how founders of Pakistan lived with that obvious contradiction:

Pakistani nationalism refers to the political, cultural, linguistic, historical, [commonly] religious and geographical expression of patriotism by the people of Pakistan, of pride in the history, heritage and identity of Pakistan, and visions for its future.

Unlike the secular nationalism of most other countries, Pakistani nationalism and the religion of Islam have often not been mutually exclusive and religion is often a part of the Pakistani nationalist narrative.

From a political point of view and in the years leading up to the independence of Pakistan, the particular political and ideological foundations for the actions of the Muslim League can be called a Pakistani nationalist ideology. It is a singular combination of philosophical, nationalistic, cultural and religious elements.

Most of modern-day Pakistani nationalism is centered on the common Indo-Iranian identity and heritage of 99% of the population. Baloch, Kashmiris, Mohajirs, Punjabis, Pakhtuns and Sindhis and minorities are mainly of Indo-Iranian stock. It also refers to the consciousness and expression of religious influences that help mould the national consciousness. Nationalism describes the many underlying forces that moulded the Pakistan movement, and strongly continue to influence the politics of Pakistan.

Very True .

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Don't revive a settled matter - Confucius

Pak folks, after tons of trials and tribulations (who haven't???), are still there!!!!! What other options do they have??? Look where are the other two-thirds of the sub-continental Muslims? I hope they'll build a much better future for themselves!!! Some signs are already there.....

 

[GHALIB]

Don't revive a settled matter - Confucius

Pak folks, after tons of trials and tribulations (who haven't???), are still there!!!!! What other options do they have??? Look where are the other two-thirds of the sub-continental Muslims? I hope they'll build a much better future for themselves!!! Some signs are already there.....

Others are in better condition than those in pakistan.

 

[padamchen]

Okay people. Have a look at this map below. It shows the 50 odd Muslim majority countries in the world. That is about quarter of the globe and over 1.8 billion Muslims.There are huge number of Muslim minorities in most countries of the world but for simplicity let us just stick with the Muslim majority countries which number about fifty.

As you can see the 50 Muslim majority countries are coloured green and cover almost every continent and almost all races of man. Pakistan is just one of them. Yes Pakistan is just one of 50.

If Pakistan nationalism is primarily based around Islam can anybody explain to me it differantiates from 50 other countries? How can one state represent Muslims when they number 1.8 billion and are spread in 50 countries?

Can people see the contradiction in the yellow patch [Pakistan] trying to be the contractor for all 50 Muslim countries? And trying to define it's nationalism around something that is spread in 50 countries? How does that work? Can the tiny yellow patch own a identity as it's own that actually belongs to 50 green patches?

In short how can a identity owned by 50 be claimed exclusively by one?

@OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @MultaniGuy etc

Most Pakistanis are descended from second-tier non-Prophet converts.

Little wonder that neither the Arabs nor Persians take you seriously.

And the boys you send to Syria (and some we do as well) get spud peeling duty there.

Pakistan sees itself as the sword arm of Islam.

The big boys if Islam, the Arabs and Persians, see Pakistan as a conveyor belt of sectarian cannon fodder.

And a fertile soil to wage a war they do not want filthying up their own soil.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Psychic]

@Desert Fox @Psychic @django @Game.Invade

Your inputs?

I think that post#3 is more or less the same what I would have said.

And Pakistan never assumed the role of contractor for the rest of the Muslim world. You don't see our armies fighting in Iraq, Syria, Yemen or Palestine.Yet some people with a particular bais against the conservatives of Pakistan give an impression that we are slaves of Arabs.

Pakistan is itself a multi racial country and the creation of this country will tell you that the Punjabi Muslim broke away from his racial brothers who spoke the same language, shared the same cuisine and even had the same forefather---that is how Pakistan was formed---you can't change that.
Now that person didn't share anything except religion with a person from the frontier or Baluchistan. We used the slogan Pakistan ka matlab kia la illaha illallah---Now some people are trying to re-write history instead of accepting the truth ---the truth that Pakistan was not formed on the basis of race but on the basis of an ideology entrenched in religion.

You try to change it and see us crumble. That ideology is what has kept us united for so long---That religious ideology is what is behind the Kashmiris waving Pakistani flags ( It's acceptable for seculars like him when religious people fight for Pakistan but unacceptable when they refuse to become like him).


The OP is known to have a special anti-religion bais. He wants to secularize Pakistan the Western way and have us hold gay pride rallies, relations with Israel ---that is the reason behind this post.

The big boys if Islam, the Arabs and Persians, see Pakistan as a conveyor belt of sectarian cannon fodder.

How many of us have fought in their sectarian wars in Syria/ Iraq?

Meanwhile the entire Arab nations of Syria, Iraq and Libya have been destroyed completely---yet you call us as cannon fodder because of some foolish individuals(volunteers).

Overall you made an ignorant post.

 

[Mrc]

Pakistan is 1000 times more viable than rich arabs or poor persians with draconian dictators and jokes of armies who lose their countries to militias armed with Toyota pick ups... With non functional institutions and extremely poor educationn levels

Its a mediocre country which can take on entire Europe without breaking a sweat .. USA is another issue... Sure...
But we are working on it ..

We wouldnt had to if our islamic brothers were not so irrelevant ..

Pk is better in most regards than gangadesh .. Be it piverty or be it media or judiciary.. Or be it military...
I would not stand for undue criticism

 

[MultaniGuy]

Okay people. Have a look at this map below. It shows the 50 odd Muslim majority countries in the world. That is about quarter of the globe and over 1.8 billion Muslims.There are huge number of Muslim minorities in most countries of the world but for simplicity let us just stick with the Muslim majority countries which number about fifty.

As you can see the 50 Muslim majority countries are coloured green and cover almost every continent and almost all races of man. Pakistan is just one of them. Yes Pakistan is just one of 50.

If Pakistan nationalism is primarily based around Islam can anybody explain to me it differantiates from 50 other countries? How can one state represent Muslims when they number 1.8 billion and are spread in 50 countries?

Can people see the contradiction in the yellow patch [Pakistan] trying to be the contractor for all 50 Muslim countries? And trying to define it's nationalism around something that is spread in 50 countries? How does that work? Can the tiny yellow patch own a identity as it's own that actually belongs to 50 green patches?

In short how can a identity owned by 50 be claimed exclusively by one?

@OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @MultaniGuy etc

I never said Pakistan could talk on behalf of the world's Muslim community. Pakistan can talk on the behalf of Pakistani Muslims.

 

[padamchen]

I think that post#3 is more or less the same what I would have said.

And Pakistan never assumed the role of contractor for the rest of the Muslim world. You don't see our armies fighting in Iraq, Syria, Yemen or Palestine.Yet to some people with a particular bais against the conservatives of Pakistan gives an impression that we are slaves of Arabs or whatever.

Pakistan is itself a multi racial country and the creation of this country will tell you that the Punjabi Muslim broke away from his racial brothers who spoke the same language, shared the same cuisine and even belonged to the same forefather---that is how Pakistan was formed---you can't change that.
Now that person didn't share anything except religion with a person from frontier or Baluchistan. We used the slogan Pakistan ka matlab kia la illaha illallah---Now some people are trying to re-write history instead of accepting the truth ---the truth that Pakistan was not formed on the basis of race but on the basis of an ideology entrenched in religion.
You try to change it and see us crumble. That ideology is what has kept us united for so long---That religious ideology is what is behind the Kashmiris waving Pakistani flags ( It's acceptable for seculars like him when religious people fight for Pakistan but unacceptable when they refuse to become like him).


The OP is known to have a special anti-religion bais. He wants to secularize Pakistan the Western way and have us hold gay pride rallies, relations with Israel ---that is the reason behind this post.


How many of us have fought in their sectarian wars in Syria/ Iraq?

Meanwhile the entire Arab nations of Syria, Iraq and Libya have been destroyed completely---yet you call us as cannon fodder because of some foolish individuals(volunteers).

Overall you made an ignorant post.

The war they are using you for is not being fought in Syria.

But your own soil.

Your own blood.

Their treasure.

You made a naive post.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MultaniGuy]

Pakistan is 1000 times more viable than ruch arabs or poor persians with draconian dictators and jokes of armies who lose their countries to militias armed with Toyota pick ups... With non functional institutions and extremely poor educationn levels

Its a mediocre country which canntake on entire Europe without breaking a sweat .. USA is another issue... Sure...
But we are working on it ..

We wouldnt had to if our islamic brothers were not so irrelevant ..

Pk is better in most regards than gangadesh .. Be it piverty or be it media or judiciary.. Or be it military...
I would not stand for undue criticism

Exactly I hear many people criticizing Pakistan, but wait till you see the real world. They will treat you like shit. There is no place like home. Better to invest in your home so you don't face any racism from any other place of the world. LOL.

 

[Imad.Khan]

This is all i have to say " If you don't love Pakistan, then renounce your citizenship and GTFO"