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Pakistani Muslims are Naive

Pakistani Muslims are Naive

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 75.5%
  • No

    Votes: 12 24.5%

  • Total voters
    49
Abhi to azab k korey aur barasney hain because of our wrong doings. I personally think all quagmires of the ummah will be solved pretty soon when Mahdi comes. Call me a zealot all you want.
Exactly and one thing these naive people intend to support the Muslims Palestine, Kashmir and balkans but when an ally country treat its Muslims Badly like China they try to be neutral. They can’t mix the umma with a nation state they have to choose. Those Pakistanis who were attacking Arabs for not saying anything about the Muslim suffering they themselves are quite what China and its treatment of Muslims.
 
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Growing up I heard that all Muslims are "brothers" and ummah I seen mostly Pakistanis hark on it sure once in a while I would hear a Afghan, Turk,Arab or any non Pakistani Muslim.Turks,Arabs, and Persians pratically hate each other you see it everyday here and in their politics before we blame the Yanks, or west yes they are guilty but we gotta understand one thing they have differences in mindset,culture and way of how their countries project power I am not saying Muslims are not brothers or ummah does not exist but we have to be more realistic in that

I'd say every ethnicity/nationality has people harp on about it. The difference is, among Pakistanis these people are in a particularly high percentage. That's why we stand out.
 
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It depends upon your interest in international politics. For example me and some of my friends are interested in international affairs so we don't believe in this ummah logic. But those who aren't interested in politics will simply believe what is shown on tv channels.

And IMO ummah logic is inspired by EU.
so when the whole world will assemble their armies against nuslim natiolism will be enough to deter their attack? eighten me
 
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Ideologically in 2 camps. Hypocritical shape shifters when it suits them. If it comes down to the destruction of Pakistan or lets say Saudi, they will pick Pakistan. Traitor snakes.

Even among Mullahs, that's a fringe view.

Perhaps the hardest truth for any Afghan to accept.

I know it hurts brother, especially when it comes from another Muslim nation. For Afghans it's hard to accept that we did this all to ourselves, when we think back on the Soviet invasion, it was Afghans who supported the communists and invited them into the country only for it to get destroyed, nearly any Afghan you meet will tell you they hated the Communists, and supported the Jihad from 1979 to 1989, however through it all many Afghans lost family members, 3-5 million Afghans lost their lives, I myself am told stories about many uncles and family friends who lost their lives.

All that bloodshed ended up with hatred, and some of it was misplaced hatred, and because you are our neighbour, your involvement was something that was bound to happen, however many Afghans believe that you should have never intervened at all as the cost of losing family members was far too hard for many to bear. The only criticism and disappointment I have about Pakistan is that Pakistan allowed America to enter Afghanistan, I only wish that had never happened and Pakistan completely refused America altogether, most of the the negativities Afghans have towards Pakistan is solely because of this main event.

Afghans have a right to be mad at Pakistan and vice versa, but Afghans in particular go way too far. Attacking random Pakistanis with families at the cricket match, siding with Hindus, takfiring Pakistanis just for not being descended from fire worshippers, etc.

Pakistanis are literally so nice to people, but then we get spat on. Ultimately, the rise of bigotry among Pakistanis towards other communities is their own fault, and to be frank, I'm glad we're starting to bite back with more ferocity.

Pervez Musharraf asked Taliban to surrender OBL unconditionally but Taliban refused.

None of our business, we should have helped nobody.
 
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Pervez Musharraf asked Taliban to surrender OBL unconditionally but Taliban refused. Pakistan and Russia are on record for opposing the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq whereas Iran supported regime change in both Afghanistan (Taliban) and Iraq (Saddam). Pakistan was told in no uncertain terms that we will be bombed back to the Stone Age if he continue opposing.

We faced international pressure at the United Nations to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1267, 1333, 1363 which meant we had to handover Taliban leaders and support ISAF
. There is not a lot of choice left here for Pakistan.

This is the full behind the scene story:

Prior to September 11, 2001, U.S. State Department officials were meeting with Iranian diplomats as part of the UN six-plus-two talks, which sought regional cooperation on policy issues concerning Afghanistan. Karl Inderfurth, the U.S. representative to these talks from 1997 to 2001, explains that on September 21, 1998, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan convened for the first time a six-plus-two meeting at the ministerial level. While U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attended, Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi did not. Albright and Kharrazi would later meet in September 2000 during a sixplus-two meeting. In general, these meetings were "professional but not harmonious" because Washington and Tehran disagreed over Iran’s provision of support to the Northern Alliance, the main anti-Taliban resistance group. The United States was reluctant to become tangled in the Afghan war.

After the 9/11 attacks, the situation changed. According to Kenneth Pollack, a former CIA intelligence analyst on the Middle East, while members of the six plus-two group, such as Russia and Pakistan, opposed a U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, Iran supported the plan. Officials from the United States and Iran began meeting outside the six-plus-two forum to develop a plan to topple the Taliban. These meetings became known as the Geneva Contact Group, and although the Germans, Italians and the United Nations provided some political cover for these discussions, the group’s focus was U.S.-Iran cooperation on Afghanistan. Iran not only provided reliable intelligence regarding the Taliban, it arrested and deported hundredsof Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters who had crossed into the country for sanctuary.

Pollack adds that the Iranian government also provided search and rescue for downed U.S. aircrew members. Iran permitted the offloading of humanitarian supplies at its port of Chah Bahar for transport into Afghanistan, and offered access to airfields near the Afghan border for use by U.S. transport aircraft. Iran also supported the initial discussions between the United States and the Northern Alliance, which enabled subsequent military success against the Taliban. After the fall of the Taliban regime in late 2001, Iran played a critical role in international efforts to establish a new Afghan government and pledged and honored commitments toward Afghanistan’s reconstruction. Through interaction with Iranian diplomats in this forum, U.S. officials succeeded in curbing the anti-U.S. activities of Iran's security and intelligence services inside Afghanistan.

Source: Middle East Policy Council

Iran's President Mohammad Khatami himself said they supported the invasion of Afghanistan and put together the invasion plan:


People in Kabul know all of these facts but they are backed by US so they sing a different tune.




Soviets invaded Afghanistan. PDPA didn't invite the Soviets. Amin and Taraki were both assasinated by Soviets.

I know about this I've read the history, Musharraf and the Pakistani generals had a 9 hour long discussion before they decided to aide America as they were in quagmire over this decision. What I don't understand is why they had to aide them, they could've remained neutral. When Turkey was in the same position as Pakistan when it came to the invasion of Iraq, America asked for aide to use their harbors, but they refused and decided to remain neutral.

However, I do agree that the blame is not completely on Pakistan, the Taliban delegates had all agreed to hand over Osama, but only Mullah Omar refused because of Pashtunwali code, and that it was not a Muslim thing to do, he called for a trial and if he was proved guilty then he would hand Osama over, the blame over here is 50/50.
 
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I know about this I've read the history, Musharraf and the Pakistani generals had a 9 hour long discussion before they decided to aide America as they were in quagmire over this decision. What I don't understand is why they had to aide them, they could've remained neutral. When Turkey was in the same position as Pakistan when it came to the invasion of Iraq, America asked for aide to use their harbors, but they refused and decided to remain neutral.

However, I do agree that the blame is not completely on Pakistan, the Taliban delegates had all agreed to hand over Osama, but only Mullah Omar refused because of Pashtunwali code, and that it was not a Muslim thing to do, he called for a trial and if he was proved guilty then he would hand Osama over, the blame over here is 50/50.
so democratic babies of america should have tried OBL where was their rigtheous justice!
 
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I know about this I've read the history, Musharraf and the Pakistani generals had a 9 hour long discussion before they decided to aide America as they were in quagmire over this decision. What I don't understand is why they had to aide them, they could've remained neutral. When Turkey was in the same position as Pakistan when it came to the invasion of Iraq, America asked for aide to use their harbors, but they refused and decided to remain neutral.
True. Pakistan should have remained neutral insofar as possible. Instead that coward otherwise known as commondo Musharaf began crying when USA roared and then sold Pakistan out. Yet here we are today we still have people think Mush was a good thing for Pakistan. He was the worst thing to happen to Pakistan in last 30 years. Makes Nawaz look like a good guy.
 
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Honestly if the Afghans are inching for a war with Pakistan they will be obliterated I find funny how people complain about muh long lost lands. You lost lands deal with it. Afgahnistan has so much problems that the only thing they care about is how Pakistan stole their lands. No such thing as stealing when you conquer and control. Pakistan has been ruled by numerous Islamic Empires the same empires that ruled afghanistan for centuries. But afghanis believe somebody stole my land.

If the Afghans lost land perhaps they should deal with it. Greater Afghanistan is nothing more than a territorial wet dream.
 
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Look I'm not saying totally cut off ties. Have an equal trade based relationship with everybody including Saudi, Israel, India, Iran, everyone.

But what has to stop is the ideological dilution which this one directional ummah concept creates. It weakes Pakistan to strengthen others. When India attacked Pakistan how many ummah brothers sent troops to Pakistan? Heck even Iran did more for us during 65 war.

One of the biggest hurdles are this remittance dependancy. Its a master slave relationship. Brain drain and cheap labor for pittance.

Pakistani goes to the USA, can work as a cleaner and study and can become wealthy.

Pakistani goes to Saudi and stays cheap labor forever. Given just enough to keep coming back for more.

This needs to end. For this to end there needs to be a eureka moment. A enough is enough moment. A moment where the entire state is galvanized into rapid progress and direction. How do you get to this moment?

Will this moment happen with mullahs? No they want to maintain status quo for their influence.

Will it happen with conquest? Capturing Afghanistan or Iranian territory? Yes its possible but it will be a great struggle?

Can it happen peacefully through an ideological realignment of the national psyche? Absolutely yes but to do this political Islam must be nationalized and internalized into the homes and away from the corridors of power. Build a legacy so people and their money are drawn to you.

I have always said Pakistanis are rich people in poor mans clothing. We were never supposed to be like this. We always made an impact on the world through history but we suffer selective amnesia in the name of Islam. Call our ancestors barbarians before the invaders came to Karachi coast not knowing Taxila was the shining beacon of religious spiritual harmony, music, the arts, love.Our potential is far far greater than being a bad copy of the middle east.
 
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Look I'm not saying totally cut off ties. Have an equal trade based relationship with everybody including Saudi, Israel, India, Iran, everyone.

But what has to stop is the ideological dilution which this one directional ummah concept creates. It weakes Pakistan to strengthen others. When India attacked Pakistan how many ummah brothers sent troops to Pakistan? Heck even Iran did more for us during 65 war.

One of the biggest hurdles are this remittance dependancy. Its a master slave relationship. Brain drain and cheap labor for pittance.

Pakistani goes to the USA, can work as a cleaner and study and can become wealthy.

Pakistani goes to Saudi and stays cheap labor forever. Given just enough to keep coming back for more.

This needs to end. For this to end there needs to be a eureka moment. A enough is enough moment. A moment where the entire state is galvanized into rapid progress and direction. How do you get to this moment?

Will this moment happen with mullahs? No they want to maintain status quo for their influence.

Will it happen with conquest? Capturing Afghanistan or Iranian territory? Yes its possible but it will be a great struggle?

Can it happen peacefully through an ideological realignment of the national psyche? Absolutely yes but to do this political Islam must be nationalized and internalized into the homes and away from the corridors of power. Build a legacy so people and their money are drawn to you.

I have always said Pakistanis are rich people in poor mans clothing. We were never supposed to be like this. We always made an impact on the world through history but we suffer selective amnesia in the name of Islam. Call our ancestors barbarians before the invaders came to Karachi coast not knowing Taxila was the shining beacon of religious spiritual harmony, music, the arts, love.Our potential is far far greater than being a bad copy of the middle east.

You can't have your cake and eat it as well. You HAVE to decide, either you are for Islam and want it to be apart of your life as well as on a national and political level or you don't want it at all, and have a separation of powers like Locke's 2nd treatise of government. You can't have it both ways, it will not workout.
 
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Anti-Ummah guys fighting/insulting/misbehaving Around other anti-ummah guys... and call it... The defacto Truth... of all Muslims...

if you live your life with and around other people with different origin BUT same mindset...No wonder you guys are against it... You guys are fighting your own image...

But A word to the septic... The Ummah WILL remain, now and after your Death... and it's been like that for 1400years... Don't take Political driven behavior of some as THE Muslim Behavior.

Ya Allah, Make the Ummah be closer and stronger than it is and that till the End.
 
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Anti-Ummah guys fighting/insulting/misbehaving Around other anti-ummah guys... and call it... The defacto Truth... of all Muslims...

if you live your life with and around other people with different origin BUT same mindset...No wonder you guys are against it... You guys are fighting your own image...

But A word to the septic... The Ummah WILL remain, now and after your Death... and it's been like that for 1400years... Don't take Political driven behavior of some as THE Muslim Behavior.

Ya Allah, Make the Ummah be closer and stronger than it is and that till the End.

I lost my faith in the Ummah when Saudis started befriending Zionists and telling Palestinians to shut up and when they started giving Modi the highest awards after he started the Kashmir genocide.

The west has more Ummah then us, they all get together and refuse to allow communism to spread. But us... well our Ummah brothers are being brutally killed and we are telling them to shut up and befriending their oppressors.
 
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I lost my faith in the Ummah when Saudis started befriending Zionists and telling Palestinians to shut up and when they started giving Modi the highest awards after he started the Kashmir genocide.

The west has more Ummah then us, they all get together and refuse to allow communism to spread. But us... well our Ummah brothers are being brutally killed and we are telling them to shut up and befriending their oppressors.

Political stance does not define Muslims opinions... even less in our current age where those in Power DO NOT answer to their people...
If you gonna get driven by Political madness then you gonna answer to those telling you "Why don't you speak about Uighurs/Muslims mistreatment in China?" or the Rohyngas... Then Palestinians...then Kurds and so on and so on...

The answer is quite simple... it's because we are weak... when we are "Alone"... Many Nationalist or Selfish guys... have this hope that them alone will be enough to fight against their enemies... But little did they know... Their enemies do not care if they are Turks, Arabs, Pakistani etc... they see one Label " Islam"...

Without a push for Ummah... NO ONE will be victorious at the end.. but will only be picked one by one...
 
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they decided to aide America as they were in quagmire over this decision. What I don't understand is why they had to aide them, they could've remained neutral.
Could we?

Consider these two factors:
1- Presence of AQ leaders on Pakistani soil
2- Exodus of AQ from Afghanistan and their arrival in Pakistan through the porous border.

Either we had to take them out or wait for the US to attack them on Pakistani soil; either way, we would've been forced to pick a side - it was damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Staying neutral was easier said than done; in both wars.
 
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